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    Your Elvenar Team

Tired of everything getting bigger and bigger

bkbajb

Well-Known Member
Why are so many players in a hurry? I have been playing for 2 years and have 2 cities. Both are midway through the Orc chapter. I see posts saying that people are sick about how long it takes for the MH to upgrade and how long the productions take. So what? In real life building and productions take time. I enjoy the challenge of trying to figure out what is needed for a chapter and trying to plan for it. Yep, made some big mistakes but it is a game and I do not want all of the freebies that will cut time. Yes I have used them but I try and use them smartly. Have fun everyone. That is what the game is about.
 

SoggyShorts

Mathematician par Excellence
Why are so many players in a hurry?........... I see posts saying that people are sick about how long it takes for the MH to upgrade...........Have fun everyone.
Some players feel that the game is a little too easy as far as strategy goes(you are basically guaranteed to not fail if you just follow the main questline), so adding an extra layer of difficulty to your own play like "never get tech-locked" or "see how fast you can reach chapter XX" is needed to keep the game fun. This creates a new set of perceived balance issues where some things like a 50h MH upgrade seem over the top when nothing else takes more than 24h.
 

DeletedUser2959

Guest
EVERYTHING DOESN'T NEED TO BE THAT FREAKING BIG !!
I hear ya, but it IS part of the game design. I'd suggest looking at getting some more expansions from conquering the world map. Also, be ruthless with older event rewards. It stinks to get rid of a cherished piece but you have to do it :( . Same goes with older culture buildings. Just dump 'em and build more efficient ones.
Make the best use of streets, make sure all your streets have buildings on both sides. And it's (usually) more productive to have a few big factories than many small ones.
 

Thistleknot

Well-Known Member
I play Forge of Empires for a while before playing Elvenar. Size of buildings and the number of building required did become an issue for me in FOE. For the most part, building size has not been a major issue. It definitely has made things challenging at times to squeeze in everything that I want. I do wish that the Main Hall would not change size. That really throws off the flow of my city. My biggest issue is my Ancient Wonders collection. Just after finishing the Halflings age, I rearranged my whole city and ended up with a ton of extra space. I filled a good portion of this space with wonders and currently have 17 of the 20 AWs available to me. Now into the Elementals age and buildings are starting to change shape again, I have the new challenge of trying to make sure I don't have to deconstruct an AW. Oh well. The problems we create for ourselves. :rolleyes:
 

DeletedUser5800

Guest
In my case I had to give up culture but no biggie..
I've been running my cult. at 100% since fairies and have never down sized anything...have actually added buildings every chapter how's that for a self-imposed challenge. (Adding a Res. and a T4 at the end of Halflings now!) The trick was to keep scouted provinces as low as possible until about midway through orcs and then run him 24/7 every since. Sadly I'm closing in on no more province expansions so the situation will worsen but it should hold out until the chapter after Elementals. The point is culture is over rated, who wants to waste space on something that gives no points. I'll only ever have just enough to build something else that does gives points. :p

I don't get why every upgrade has to make them bigger and bigger..
As for things getting bigger, the argument takes me back to orcs, all those freaking mushroom farms (or the freaking stupid worthless shanty town FA garbage I won't even do anymore), if things are smaller it's just more things to click, I'd be happy if I could replace 12 workshops with 1 that's 12 times as big. :D
But if that's how a person wants to play the option is there, just don't upgrade things and they will stay small. ;)
 

Mykan

Oh Wise One
Essentially, it all comes down to your playing style. You can get through the chapters with significant culture event buildings (Sunshine anyone?) but that will have to come with the sacrifice of some other buildings. Unless you are like me, making it through the chapters with bare minimal culture because you enjoy doing significantly well in tournaments, and looking at your pretty wonders :) :oops:

~Xelenia

Such an excellent post. I find I can make it through chapters with both sunshine and wonders, however I sacrifice more in terms of factories. I figure with 1 mil surplus of goods though I haven't given up much. As you mentioned it is all about balancing wants and needs and peoples perception of both vary.

I've thought quite a bit about why players feel there isn't enough space, and here's how I see it:
1. The player mentality of being a hoarder.
2. The Magic building trap.
3. The Artwork
4. Culture
5. The Tournament
6. Ranking Points

Very well stated. I believe there is a 7th and maybe an 8th aspect.
7. The expansion trap. People go madly out to grab as many expansions as they can on the world map (or diamonds). We than fill this space with things from your points above and start to believe we need this to survive every chapter. We don't like to keep spare space available for events or guest races even though this is quite obviously a useful thing (not a necessity).We worked hard (or bought) that extra space and we want to use it for things we want. If we are waiting at the end of the tech tree for a while of course we fill the space but then grow attached to what we put in that space.

It has been stated that the game is balanced based on a free to play players space. There have also been comments regarding exploration, so we have a reasonable estimate for where the game is balanced. We don't have to play in that space unless that is your extra challenge but understanding that more than that is a bonus to us is important to understand.

8. Mentor/Guide. So often we listen to players who are at the end of the tech tree or much further along than us and they say build x and do y. Often this is based on their own experience and for those at the end can be several months or year old information. Much of the game has changed over the years and things that were not an issue in the past are becoming issues now (like getting tech locked very early in the game if one uses tournaments a lot). We also often mentor people into the very traps and thinking you mentioned above, perpetuating the issue. Just because someone has a big score or is further ahead does not always mean our advice is exactly what you should do. Everyone has to filter advice into their own perception of needs and then wants.

In respect to the hoarder section. I 100% agree with this, I have tracked my factory space in multiple towns of different races and boosts with different strategies and I have found that the physical space in squares needed does not actually change regardless of the chapter (at least pre-elementals). So the same space you used for factories in chapter 1 can be occupied in chapter 12 and still meet the needs of the chapter. Even then I don't doubt I have some wants included in that space allocation when I look at my surplus goods and players who thrive with even less space allocation.

Sometimes just acknowledging and identifying that certain things in our town are a want and not a need can change our perception of the space
challenge.
 
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DeletedUser3507

Guest
I've been running my cult. at 100% since fairies and have never down sized anything...have actually added buildings every chapter how's that for a self-imposed challenge. (Adding a Res. and a T4 at the end of Halflings now!) The trick was to keep scouted provinces as low as possible until about midway through orcs and then run him 24/7 every since. Sadly I'm closing in on no more province expansions so the situation will worsen but it should hold out until the chapter after Elementals. The point is culture is over rated, who wants to waste space on something that gives no points. I'll only ever have just enough to build something else that does gives points. :p

I try to keep at 200% + most of the time, I like culture, and went nuts on it.
Screenshot_1.png
 

DeletedUser5800

Guest
I try to keep at 200% + most of the time, I like culture, and went nuts on it.
You don't count because you have PREMIUM cult!... and workshops... and Res. :p:p:p
The only thing premium I have is a stupid snail palace I'm about to sell. ;)
To have a non-premium 200% just so I could have 6 less workshops so I could add 3 manufactories and then need 2 more workshops and then more culture to keep the boost up just doesn't add up to me.
If I had half as many of everything because it was all premium I would have at least 450% boost. :eek: :D :eek:

And to prove @SoggyShorts earlier point in relation to space, I could actually sell half of everything I have and still function within the game quite well but instead of being rank 58 I would be rank nobody cares!
 
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DeletedUser3507

Guest
lol ok :D

458% boost would be impressive for sure, I keep 10 spell active 24/7...
Which works well for me.
 
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SoggyShorts

Mathematician par Excellence
7. The expansion trap.
Good point, I can see it being easy to become addicted to getting an expansion every 1-2 weeks by scouting non-stop, and feeling that it is the norm. That party eventually ends, and the withdrawal can be pretty rough.
8. Mentor/Guide.
Many end game players went through some of the harder chapters around a year ago, and cashed in on the rather OP winter event buildings which skews their perception as well. I tried making an architect city for a fellow using one of my old ones, and it had very different needs when I deleted the 15 winterstars I had. On the other hand some things have gotten much easier, like supplies. I remember having some issues in dwarf and orc chapters that I warned fellows about, and they said they had no problems at all since they just used one of their 50+ 15% supplies instants whenever they dropped down.
instead of being rank 58 I would be rank nobody cares!
rank.jpg
:D
 

DeletedUser9601

Guest
So the same space you used for factories in chapter 1 can be occupied in chapter 12 and still meet the needs of the chapter. Even then I don't doubt I have some wants included in that space allocation when I look at my surplus goods and players who thrive with even less space allocation.

Sometimes just acknowledging and identifying that certain things in our town are a want and not a need can change our perception of the space
challenge.
I'm trying out a "one boosted tier factory" city, and its going surprisingly well. There are definitely times where I can't cater for an extra few relics in a tournament, but I don't really "need" those relics. But otherwise its working pretty well. Its all about making sure whatever path you take works well in synergy with the rest of your city.
 

bkbajb

Well-Known Member
Some players feel that the game is a little too easy as far as strategy goes(you are basically guaranteed to not fail if you just follow the main questline), so adding an extra layer of difficulty to your own play like "never get tech-locked" or "see how fast you can reach chapter XX" is needed to keep the game fun. This creates a new set of perceived balance issues where some things like a 50h MH upgrade seem over the top when nothing else takes more than 24h.


Good point. I am not in any hurry. I enjoy the frustrations of time and space.
 

Deborah M

Oh Wise One
But I do and I'm pretty sure my opinion is the most important to me. :cool:
If I dropped back into triple digits I would probably cry and quit. :( :D

While I'm not terribly competitive ranking has me very conflicted about what I need to sell off to have room for Elementals :( I'm thinking that selling off mfg to make room for such a big settlement will probably drop me out of the top 20. I get that there is no real advantage to the ranking but for quite a while that was a goal that added satisfaction with the game. It would be very disappointing if that happens on top of having to sell off culture I wanted to keep. So yeah, if Inno doesn't find a space balance between the various aspects of the game it will be challenging but definitely not fun.
 

SoggyShorts

Mathematician par Excellence
I'm thinking that selling off mfg to make room for such a big settlement will probably drop me out of the top 20.
This is why settlement buildings should give ranking points.
Your score should be a measurement of how good your city is.
"Good" should mean that your city can make progress.
"Progress" should be everything from making troops, goods, unlocking techs etc.

A Gem factory gives you ranking points because it makes resources that are good for your city. This makes sense. A settlement building that makes resources that are good for your city should too.
 

DeletedUser9601

Guest
A Gem factory gives you ranking points because it makes resources that are good for your city. This makes sense. A settlement building that makes resources that are good for your city should too.
Eh, I think it makes more sense just to take the long view. You have 2 players that completed Halflings. One player fills up the guest race space with AWs and extra factories, zooming up the ranks. The second player spends 20 expansions on guest race space for Elementals and progresses through content.

That Halflings player has a higher score at first, but that score is effectively locked (barring AW levelling). That Elemental player unlocks new residences, barracks, factories, manufactories, etc. etc. That player builds the new level of buildings (increasing score), and has stronger military units (meaning more tournament success, more provinces cleared). They suffer a dip in points, but it all works out in the end.

Since there aren't really any players staying in Halflings forever (unless they've quit), its kind of a non-issue. You take a dive with points for a few months, but you gain them back later. And even in a world where the Haflings player dumped so many points into AWs that he kept pace with the Elemental player, it won't work when the next chapter (Giants, Mermaids, whatever) comes out, and the Elementals player advances even further.
 
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