Too Costly

[DeletedUser1161]

As a diamond player, I'd like to join in here.

I wish that the diamonds were solely used to affect the tempo of one's game, rather than allowing for a different style of game. Yes, I do love the ability to purchase population...but, even though I've availed myself of this, I still would prefer to see a strategy game where all players are using identical elements.

If diamonds could only affect tempo, I would not have bought any. In a game where the whole point is gradual growth over months and even years, I won't even consider paying $20 for a couple days' worth of saved time. I'm seeing a diamond cost of around 45/hour for KP and 30/hour for building, which is too expensive to interest me.

What I will buy is a permanent advantage like a builder, a city expansion, or a population gain, especially if it costs under $10. Those feel more valuable because you enjoy the benefits for as long as you play the game. I think the third builder for 500 diamonds is a great buy - it moves your city forward far faster than 500 diamonds' worth of KP. I was glad I could buy a few diamonds, support the game, and feel like I got something worthwhile for my money.

 

[DeletedUser61]

I'm also rather fond of the three premium Cultural Buildings that also provide some population. They're nice looking, and the reduce pressure for more housing allows you more flexibility in how you lay out your production area.

 

[DeletedUser594]

.
Regarding Elvenar as a puzzle...I think we use it that way, but it can't be part of the design concept (since it's quite a poor puzzle). If we were intended to rearrange / edit our layouts, there would be an "edit" mode (stopping clocks) and allowing for replacement of items. There would be a "rotate" function for buildings, too

the Archmage has dictatorial authority and, since one can't survive without a fellowship, by definition a player has to submit to a leader for better or for worse. I'd bet that this process has discouraged any number of players - who wants to spend one's free time sucking up to some petty little dictator? (Disclaimer: I'm not referring to my Arch). So, Varron, the synergism is formulaic only: make a few trades, polish a few buildings, trade a little KP.

I think is has a puzzle like element- there is a challenge to finding a better way while constrained by the shape of the pieces. I agree that some element to allow just a bit of breathing room to get the process rolling would be a positive addition- i would favor the swap option FoE instituted that allowed you to hold a building, then hover over another and switch. I wouldn't be totally opposed to some sort of single space opening to allow a time out spot for the building which may be fair since we don't wipe our building out every new age we enter as with FoE so it's a different challenge...but rotation...boring. Sorry. A clever solution to a vexing restructuring makes me want to high 5 someone nerdy enough to know the pain and ultimate reward of a good city rebuild.

And Archmaging (does that even work as a word?...I'm going with it) as a tyrant must be fun. I've never kicked a member out for anything but suspected inactivity. I've started them up, took who wanted to join and then spent hours and days and months now trying to get it the way I think works best without having an established rule..,I don't think we've had any at all...just showing the benefits of boosted production along with the pitfalls of mixed production if/when boosted ratios are out of whack- did a scavenger hunt for new players to learn, talked till I was blue in the face, demonstrated the benefit in message, learned freaking excel to make a calculator that demonstrates the difference that you get with boosted goods..,showed how the loss of one or two boosted building can damage trade flow and growth for the whole group and did it work? I'll let you know...that last bit was my last salvo. If not I'm going to play farmville and i'm gonna be a dictator of my farm kingdom cause I am worn out

 

[DeletedUser627]

... If not I'm going to play farmville and i'm gonna be a dictator of my farm kingdom cause I am worn out

You got me! I'm laughing and laughing. Yes, we have Servant Archmaging and Tyrant Archmaging. Clearly you've been following the "Shepherd Archmaging" model...and those dang sheep can be oh-so recalcitrant. But, to my eye, your fellowship looks great, so it does look like it's working.

Consider me nerdy when it comes to high-fiving over the woes and joys of rebuilding. I usually lay mine out on a spreadsheet first...embarrassingly nerdy.

Are you generally experiencing good balanced trade after all that work?

 

[DeletedUser626]

"And Archmaging (does that even work as a word?...I'm going with it) as a tyrant must be fun. I've never kicked a member out for anything but suspected inactivity. I've started them up, took who wanted to join and then spent hours and days and months now trying to get it the way I think works best without having an established rule..,I don't think we've had any at all...just showing the benefits of boosted production along with the pitfalls of mixed production if/when boosted ratios are out of whack- did a scavenger hunt for new players to learn, talked till I was blue in the face, demonstrated the benefit in message, learned freaking excel to make a calculator that demonstrates the difference that you get with boosted goods..,showed how the loss of one or two boosted building can damage trade flow and growth for the whole group and did it work? I'll let you know...that last bit was my last salvo. If not I'm going to play farmville and i'm gonna be a dictator of my farm kingdom cause I am worn out

Hiya Varron, hehe blue in the face, so easy for elves
it's all good fun, you can tell em all day long about lawn ornaments don't help, as much as what the city relic boosted factories make.
some just like the look of the lawn ornaments. others insist that the having a several holy codex floating on chains is soo cool next to that one central place looks so awesome.. lol what can we do.. enjoy it all in strides and peace is my suggestion.
perhaps one day they'd like to get above 100% culture bonus, or use that 300-500% relic boost.

 

[DeletedUser754]

I'm only as advanced as the fourth branch of the technology tree on A and W, but I disagree with the notion the game is too costly or requires diamonds to have fun. It all depends on the person. I bought diamonds to speed gameplay and enhance enjoyment, but on my beta city where I have bought no diamonds I'm not having any less fun. I just have less space to work with and advance slower than on the US servers where I have purchased diamonds to add builders and expansions. I would not spend diamonds on KP because even diamond spending hits a limit on what I'm willing to buy. I'm a diamond buyer, but moderately so, and for something that will keep giving back like extra land or that extra builder. I may buy culture buildings in the higher portions of the technology tree, depending on my mood

 

[DeletedUser1161]

just showing the benefits of boosted production along with the pitfalls of mixed production if/when boosted ratios are out of whack-

Out of curiosity, how did you fix boosted ratios then?

If fellowship trading is out of whack there aren't many options for mid-level players besides making unboosted goods or begging for help. Neighborhood trading is mostly broken and it's very expensive to buy tier 2 and 3 goods from the trader.

 

[DeletedUser]

The only thing neighbours is the benefit of more coin. I/ve sent requests to join a fellowship with me and have had no answers, yea or nay and most are not changing at all. what's with these people that join and stop? I'd rather form my own fellowship then join and I've kind of got a game plan going ,, so that with time I can create a working province. In one game I had played at I was able to create a second Id and worked them back and forth together, seems like here your only allowed one. At this time I am trying to develop a site where I can enlarge manufacturing of goods at a good steady rate and eventually trade to others at a reasonable profit for me. I see some who are asking 50%0 or more of an item on trades, which to me seems a wee bit show of greed. So once I reach a consistent level of production then will start trading. At that time I will post my percentage of exchange

 

[DeletedUser626]

Out of curiosity, how did you fix boosted ratios then?

If fellowship trading is out of whack there aren't many options for mid-level players besides making unboosted goods or begging for help. Neighborhood trading is mostly broken and it's very expensive to buy tier 2 and 3 goods from the trader.

for me the easiest way to fix boosted ratio in fellowship is for myself or the mages to keep count of each fellowship member cities boosts.
this can be done by viewing each fellowship members city from the world map looking at the north/southeast/southwest province.

for example a player with your name on us1 has - planks, silk and gems as boosted goods..

Knowing what each city is boosted in and best at producing, we can then form strategies to improve production.
when the boosted goods each cities are making are well balanced for the fellowship.
if the boosted goods are not balanced in fellowship market, we may need to recruit a member to balance the goods the fellowship trading market may be lacking.

 

[DeletedUser43]

The only thing neighbours is the benefit of more coin.

That is a very big benefit. The more neighbors you discover, this can be the difference of a million or more coins per day.

 

[DeletedUser594]

Out of curiosity, how did you fix boosted ratios then?

If fellowship trading is out of whack there aren't many options for mid-level players besides making unboosted goods or begging for help. Neighborhood trading is mostly broken and it's very expensive to buy tier 2 and 3 goods from the trader.

Short answer: recruitment
I keep a spreadsheet of players that shows their relative position on the roster and their boosts. The spreadsheet keeps a running tally so at a quick glance I can see total #s of each boost and looking at the spread of boosts gives me a basic idea of the city age distribution. A quick look tells me the distribution of boosts. If you look at the pic included you can see that even though I had a good spread on the #'s of players with each boost the distribution is skewed with top heavy steel/scroll/elixer. I also had a good number of gems producers but little capacity because the boosted weren't yet ready to produce a lot. Then the crystal and silk were even numbers but silk had more high level players and crystal needed some help.
So with that info I look to fill more pressing needs first and would try and recruit a high level gems producer or someone crystal boosted.
Over time with thoughtful recruiting you can shore up your needs so that you're not waiting until the trade board reveals the imbalance to you.

You got me! I'm laughing and laughing. Yes, we have Servant Archmaging and Tyrant Archmaging. Clearly you've been following the "Shepherd Archmaging" model...and those dang sheep can be oh-so recalcitrant. But, to my eye, your fellowship looks great, so it does look like it's working.

Consider me nerdy when it comes to high-fiving over the woes and joys of rebuilding. I usually lay mine out on a spreadsheet first...embarrassingly nerdy.

Are you generally experiencing good balanced trade after all that work?

Yes we had some very productive conversations and were able to figure out where the hang ups were and move forward. This game has an insidious double whammy that snares new players
1. The boost grows- players don't see what a difference it really makes later when costs/space demand efficiency
2. It seems almost selfish to a lot of players to make boosted goods only when they can supplement their needs with a non-boosted factory or two. It makes sense unless you're looking at the dynamic fellowship trading as a whole where the individual that produces a little of (X ) instead of a boosted good (Y) ...,isn't gaining 170 goods a day of (X)..,the fellowship is losing 700 boosted goods of (Y) a day in trade

And I love spreadsheets so do share.

Hiya Varron, hehe blue in the face, so easy for elves
it's all good fun, you can tell em all day long about lawn ornaments don't help, as much as what the city relic boosted factories make.
some just like the look of the lawn ornaments. others insist that the having a several holy codex floating on chains is soo cool next to that one central place looks so awesome.. lol what can we do.. enjoy it all in strides and peace is my suggestion.
perhaps one day they'd like to get above 100% culture bonus, or use that 300-500% relic boost.

So far this is the only tool I've had success with in convincing a mixed production player of the advantage of boosted goods production. I made it so I could demonstrate the gains for that individual city instead of trying to explain it in abstract terms. It's based on a 24hr cycle but future versions will include different cycles.
http://tinyurl.com/pgxrqgb


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I merged your posts. Please avoid multi-posting in the future as it creates clutter and is against the forum rules. The edit option and multi-quoting should suffice in case you want to address multiple posts at once. - Frenesis.

 

[DeletedUser]

That is a very big benefit. The more neighbors you discover, this can be the difference of a million or more coins per day.

And actually today I had my first join my fellowship

 

[DeletedUser43]

And actually today I had my first join my fellowship

Congratulations!! I will try to steer some players your way if I get requests to join that I can't accept in our fellowship. It is a lot of fun to play with others where you are all working together.

It makes sense unless you're looking at the dynamic fellowship trading as a whole where the individual that produces a little of (X ) instead of a boosted good (Y) ...,isn't gaining 170 goods a day of (X)..,the fellowship is losing 700 boosted goods of (Y) a day in trade

^^This is so hard to explain. You don't want to sound like you are telling anyone what to do, yet at the same time, it really does hurt the fellowship. When you get further in the game and you need tens of thousands of goods per day, you really have no choice but to rely on others to help you. You just can't make enough of the nonboosted goods.

 

[DeletedUser]

My first one joining we talked a bit last night, asked him to take a look at where I was after 10 days(I've moved up about 4000places in 10 days) and after he went to bed, I sent a couple of messages to him suggesting to create and build higher his residences and workshops. This not being an overlord or such but a benevolent guide, which if he wants to just go with how the flow Is for now I am fine with it

 

[DeletedUser61]

How much help is actually helpful is always a tricky question, and the answer varies from person to person.

It's like "explaining" how to ride a bicycle.
Most of the advice won't be useful UNTIL you've ridden the bicycle for a while.

The thing I like the best about a good forum is that you can bookmark an interesting post, and then come back to it later when you're ready to deal with that issue.

 

[EarthbornIcarus]

Creating a game, hiring designers, getting it to market is hard. It takes a long time of working without getting paid a cent. Then, you have to shell out money trying to advertise it. Employees make money every day they are work. Owners only make money when their product is good. If making games didn't make a lot of money potentially, no one would bother. They couldn't afford to. Therefore, I am glad to see owners making money so I can have a game to play.

That said, I think the owners could make more money if they had a thriving game with tons of players who loved it and who told all their friends about it. If they did give some diamonds away in game at times, then I think they would keep more players here. Sure, there has to be a balance between keeping the game frustrating enough that people buy diamonds and keeping the game fun enough that people who don't spend money will stay here.

The number one complaint about this game has always been that it is too slow and boring. Even if they just had side quests or something. You need more for people to do around here. What I am hearing VanIsleGirl say is that she is too frustrated to want to spend money. If she felt more encouraged or more excited about the game, then maybe she would would spend money. That is very valuable feedback for the owners.

I have always been of the opinion that there are two kinds of spenders...those who spend money because they game thwarts their progress if they don't, and those that spend money because they are offered extra amazing things that they just have to have. I fall into the latter category. If you tell ME that the game will be harder, more challenging, more difficult unless I spend money right away, you won't ever get a penny from me. I slog along and will do whatever it takes to bull my way through. Sell pretty things, add aesthetics to offer me...that is when I get interested. I don't like to be pushed, I like to be enticed. I have been saying for a while now that Inno could make money from both groups if they tried. Make new skins available, add in new backgrounds, offer limited editions of colors for houses and things. Who knows, maybe in the future.

What I find tragic is that many of the players who have reached the top of the game have quit. That also tells me something. There should always be lots of new goals to reach. Even if it just some silly side arcade game that holds your interest. Something.

The owners made $100 MILLION in 2016. I think they are greedy, and the cost is way to high. Who wants to spend $10-20/DAY on a game to keep going? They are clever, in that this game is only geared toward making money for the owners. Disgusted with it.

 

[Ashrem]

The owners made $100 MILLION in 2016. Who wants to spend $10-20/DAY on a game to keep going? They are clever, in that this game is only geared toward making money for the owners. Disgusted with it.

Gross or net? 100 million sounds like a lot, but it's across at least six different games that each require their own art and code and 4 of which are also available on iOS and Android and probably account for most of it. If you are spending $10 a day on the game, I suspect you should consider taking a step back. If you are spending 20$ a day, I'm pretty sure you should. That's more than my family spends on groceries. The only games that aren't geared toward making money for their owners are community-driven/opensource games. Making money for your work is not actually evil.

 

[DeletedUser3507]

I wish they would find some good programmers to reduce the bugs and add a few features we have been asking for. And yes I agree that if they cut diamond cost in half, more would be likely to purchase them.

 

[EarthbornIcarus]

Gross or net? 100 million sounds like a lot, but it's across at least six different games that each require their own art and code and 4 of which are also available on iOS and Android and probably account for most of it. If you are spending $10 a day on the game, I suspect you should consider taking a step back. If you are spending 20$ a day, I'm pretty sure you should. That's more than my family spends on groceries. The only games that aren't geared toward making money for their owners are community-driven/opensource games. Making money for your work is not actually evil.

I didn't say I was spending that. How presumptuous of you. The way they have it set up, if you don't purchase their diamonds, you cant upgrade buildings or go any further, OR add any of the cultural sculptures. The playing field is greatly in favor of diamond purchases. Every time you turn around, your game play is stopped by NOT buying "diamonds". It is NOT geared first towards people enjoying the game. I wouldn't mind if the "diamond" purchases were fair....but they are exorbitant, and run out quickly. If you try to keep playing, and seek to upgrade anything, you are stumped at every turn unless you wait hours and hours to play the next 5 minutes. If you spent $40 over a year- even- that would pay for most games outright- but this never ends, and it is most definitely geared towards making the owners money first and foremost, so please stop defending their greed. They could have made their money and still been more fair to those who want to play, but cant afford to buy diamonds at their high rate. What if I loved the game? and was willing to spend $5/week or month? That seems more fair to me. OR- heres an idea- ALLOW players to EARN the items (even if it takes longer) that diamonds buy. They game is NOT fair even to people who are willing to pay some for diamonds!!!! I am not willing to spend hundreds of dollars over even the lifetime of the game play, there should be a cap on the extreme greed. No player should have to pay over $100 for a game that makes their owners $100 MILLION a year.
I would probably pay $60-$99 overall- but I imagine some people have put thousands into this game. Its like a casino- where everything is geared towards pulling you in and steering you towards the purchase of diamonds. They have researched human nature, I am sure, and put it to work for their greed. They make plenty enough money to allow people who can't afford it to play in a fairer way. I think the game is beautiful- that's why it makes me so mad that they are so greedy and SEEM only to want people to purchase, purchase, purchase every step of the game.

EDIT: I'd like to add that this is coming from a person who has never played any online game before this. So- my reactions are sincere, even if many are already accustomed to shelling out quite a bit- to play a game...and like I said- I am willing to support the authors of great game experiences!!!- this one just goes way too far. I M O! LOL

 

[EarthbornIcarus]

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I wish they would find some good programmers to reduce the bugs and add a few features we have been asking for. And yes I agree that if they cut diamond cost in half, more would be likely to purchase them.

I agree. I have purchased diamnds a few times...but HOLY COW!!!! Do they expect people to purchase every day? I assume so. You can't really accomplish much without them....so the game gets really BORING just waiting around for the "supplies & money"....there is more to life than that- why arent there more things a player can do, like simple things....free things....adding flowers to paths etc....but every single thing costs, and that way they keep people playing on their terms, which for some of us is NOT enjoyable. I also think you should be able to pick and choose what kind of city you will be- and still be able to advance the "chapters" . If I dont want to fight, why do I have to keep building an army? etc...etc....this game could be so much more. But, greed.