Tournament Changes

[Deleted User - 1178646]

Yep, and I said just that over in the other thread that Nightguest started. Seriously, there will only be 39 premium expansions once chapter 17 goes to Live. As I said over there, they need to cut the increase to squad size from them at least in half. And maybe they really should not count them at all. That would be the nicer thing to do for the diamond spenders. But that is probably unlikely, considering how many players have bought expansions with free diamonds. But reducing the effect by half would be a good first step.

It's not "just about" the premium expansion. it's not a A + B + C + D formula its a A * B * C * D formula.
It's the whole picture thats screwed up. not just 1 part of it.

Lets just dat you slash it trough half and it becomes 80-85.000 vs 30K it's still not working.

 

[Deleted User - 1178646]

Can confirm numbers and existence of examples 2 and 3 (well, very close). But do you know of existing examples of chapter 16 cities in 25 expansions? I suppose it is theoretically possible, but if someone did that already (for whatever reason), they would be in great shape for tournaments for quite a while...

The first example, is sometething people started to build recently it will take a year or so before they become tournament dominators.
but it's a town that you could reasonably build to "destroy the tournaments"

As long as you are in a premium fellowship, you can make it much easier more extreme than this. and all those lovely timeboosters will be used to unlock provinces asap.

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

Since I am finally back at my PC, I can post my promised screen shot too. This is province 25 - Star 1:

Again, this far in, these numbers do not bother me. Maybe if I had 10 more premium expansions and another 50 or 100 AW levels, it would be different.

 

[BrinDarby]

@ElegantCassandra ,
I am very sorry, yes I mistagg'd a post of @ElegantZara 's it appears.
My apologies for the mistake ...
BrinD

 

[Deleted User - 3932582]

The first example, is sometething people started to build recently it will take a year or so before they become tournament dominators.
but it's a town that you could reasonably build to "destroy the tournaments"

Funny, a while ago I was considering building the most compact city possible as a challenge. Never went through with it as that would have been pretty boring, and there was no any particular reason to do that except to show what is technically possible.

Well, now we do have a reason to actually do that. I just suggest that people who build this out don't do it as their only city. Because these highly specialized builds are very susceptible to rule changes. And I can totally see in a year's time, when builds like that start to gain prominence, Inno will decide to "curb abusive practices" again. Like introducing mandatory number of expansions / AW levels per chapter (like it is currently done with provinces). Then all this work would be for nothing.

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

And I can totally see in a year's time, when builds like that start to gain prominence, Inno will decide to "curb abusive practices" again. Like introducing mandatory number of expansions / AW levels per chapter (like it is currently done with provinces). Then all this work would be for nothing.

I, and a few others on the Beta forum, suggested minimum chapters for certain amounts of provinces to be unlocked. Random example of something like a chapter 5 or smaller city can only do the 1st 10 provinces, a chapter 6-10 city can do the first 20 provinces, etc.

 

[DeletedUser10158]

Hi Folks,

The reality right now is this...Inno has set up a scenario that greatly favors mid level cities. Inno knows that these players are most likely to spend $$$ to grow. I mean... Gee, look how great I can do in the tournies, look how much better I can do if I spend some $$$ and build magic houses and workshops, and a premium expansion or 2 wouldn't hurt so I can build more stuff. Get a clue folks (mid-level players), once you hit a certain level, once you have spent some $$$ Inno has decided you will be penalized for growing more. Inno is targeting mid-level players...they want your $$$, they are leading you with the "carrot"...you will pay heavy to hit the top 100 player list.

Bottom line, don't spend $$$ on this game, the developers have zero respect/consideration for the players. We are all just a bottom line for them.

Thanks for listening,

Ruby

 

[Black watch]

You know, it seems to me (YMMV, etc) that the players who are screaming the loudest about the new tournament are the ones who were playing mostly to farm KP by the hundreds, and I have to wonder: Maybe that's the point? I fully agree that if that was in fact a design goal (never mind a major design goal) that should've been communicated up front. It wasn't; nobody can do anything about that omission now, although -- again, if -- my speculation is correct, admitting it might go a bit toward alleviating some of the hurt feelings?

I have to address this, not hurtfully- just to say that when I read this, I was struck with this thought. INNO put the KP in the tourney's to be won... to be acquired. 5 KP at two stars and 6 Kp at five. INNO placed that KP in there to be won... we aspired to it... I remember finally being able to hit 20 open and thinking WooHOO, I'm really getting KP- finally!
I busted my butt to make my city a fighting machine... I have a tourney average right now of 9,382. I loved growing my city.. I loved doing the tourneys... I didn't love the endless clicking, but that was over shaddowed by the fact I was helping my FS grow.

INNO put in the KP as a reward... pure and simple... if someone was able to farm a 1,000 or whatever... fine. they earned that ability... they got carpel tunnel and damn straight, INNO rewarded them for all those clicks...
I don't have a problem with the KP thing. and yeah, I was making over 500 KP on some tourneys... my arm can attest.

For some reason, INNO now thinks that's bad... and at least some of us, should be punished for it.

You will have to explain this one to me. This will be my 3rd straight week getting 5250 points, and I could do more if I wanted. All I am doing is putting out either 2 UUU or 1 DA, maybe a light ranged or mage building, and feeding my fire phoenix. I auto-fight all of that, so my only expense each week is the supplies to replace the lost troops. I do not go past province 22 and do not do any encounters that are harder than the old system's 160% troop difference.

I wish I could place boost buildings every week. I get spurts of nothing for quite a while, followed by a few, and I mean a few, boost buildings- and that's almost always the ELR boost...
Between having little to no pet food offered, followed by a lack of boosts, coupled with the tourney changes... I'm shaking my head.
If I want to stay 12 open provinces in a tourney and under, it's a breeze... seriously easy... but as soon as KP is involved, the difficulty climbs VERY quickly and losses in troops and goods builds up. I don't think this is sustainable... In the few weeks that this has been going on now, I've stripped almost all my supply boosts out and my pet food is low again... under 10.
I wish I had more UUU's and DA's... They just don't come to me enough to offset the new tourney difficulty.

Overall, I think the overall complaint must have been the amount of clicks for the tourneys... but somehow INNO thought they needed to address KP, building your city, AWs, expansions and even the KITCHEN SINK got thrown into the mix.
WTH?
I don't get it.
One thing is pretty obvious. The game is a lot less fun for a lot of people... I've seen two more end game players that I've known for years give up and leave.
That's not good.

 

[LordVorKon]

I have to address this, not hurtfully- just to say that when I read this, I was struck with this thought. INNO put the KP in the tourney's to be won... to be acquired. 5 KP at two stars and 6 Kp at five. INNO placed that KP in there to be won... we aspired to it... I remember finally being able to hit 20 open and thinking WooHOO, I'm really getting KP- finally!
I busted my butt to make my city a fighting machine... I have a tourney average right now of 9,382. I loved growing my city.. I loved doing the tourneys... I didn't love the endless clicking, but that was over shaddowed by the fact I was helping my FS grow.

INNO put in the KP as a reward... pure and simple... if someone was able to farm a 1,000 or whatever... fine. they earned that ability... they got carpel tunnel and damn straight, INNO rewarded them for all those clicks...
I don't have a problem with the KP thing. and yeah, I was making over 500 KP on some tourneys... my arm can attest.

For some reason, INNO now thinks that's bad... and at least some of us, should be punished for it.

Let me start by first saying that I see what you're saying and I understand where you're coming from. In the absence of any communication from Inno, I can only speculate as to their reasoning, but perhaps they feel they've made a mistake in allowing players to harvest an extra 500+ KP each and every week. If that is true, I do not disagree that they've made a hash of their fix in a number of ways. All I'm saying is that their motivation may have been to slow down the growth of the most advanced end-game cities. If the designers have the impression that highly-tuned tournament cities are blowing through chapters too fast (as possibly also indicated by the increased KP costs in Chapter 16) while also dumping hundreds of KP into their own or others' Ancient Wonders every week, it would make sense to devise a way to slow down that progression.

So yeah, you're absolutely right; Inno put that KP in the tournament. Since that happened, lots of new things have been added that make tournaments significantly easier (or at least less expensive).

Again, I'm not really trying to defend the 'fix' they've currently imposed; I'm only looking at what their motivations might have been for thinking they needed to 'fix' in the first place.

 

[shesidhe]

Most of my fellowship members like the new tournament format. Smaller cities can contribute more. A couple of larger city members are disappointed that they cannot excel as much as they had, but mostly positive. They like that it is so quick to play now. Being able not to have to search for provinces to hurry them along is a definite plus for me! Unfortunately when you do this the screen switches back to the first page and you have to go through again to find the province that you hurried up. And sometimes it switches back when you are looking at further provinces, so this is a pain. Also positive feedback on the single fight in the province. Random troops is hard. One player has observed that the former recommended troops works for the first 10 provinces and then after that it is random. I have found that my ability in tournaments is about the same.

 

[Clusseau]

Man... Planks tournament looks like "The New Normal"?

Many Players think this is great, please continue?
Others, more advanced, think they can alter course, and adapt.... they still have goals?
Others, at the top, have been chopped off, and sent to the back. They no longer have goals or remedies.
Inno says to them, "You are Done with Progress, but please start over , and keep spending money"??

Some of the "Chopped Off" players have reported numbers,
and some of the Near-Behind call them/me Liars. The Numbers are Real, The game is Dead.

It will take a minute for top players to absorb this, and to delete all references to "elvenar" from our Bookmarks...
It will take a minute more for those right behind to See This.. .and absorb it... and to do the same.
And in 3-6 months, many of those now saying "This is great, please continue", will understand, and they will do likewise.

Im honestly Saddened.
So MANY quicker, Better, Faster, Simpler solutions have been suggested!!! OMG! So Many!!!
But it seems INNO will do NOTHING ELSE, until after my prophecy is fulfilled- and i wont be here to see it.

 

[LordVorKon]

And sometimes it switches back when you are looking at further provinces, so this is a pain.

I saw that too. I think it does it when the cooldown timers decrement, but I'm not 100% certain. I didn't feel I had enough information to file a bug report, but I'll definitely be trying to do that on Tuesday.

 

[Iyapo1]

Helya,
while we have no doubt that the new players like the new tournament, and I will make sure to compare between my small city and big city just to prove the point(screen shots for the same province, same level, same tournament) , the points is and will be :you have given super advantage to small players and super disadvantage to endgame players . This game is suppose to progress and I am currently having a great difficulty understanding why did I build my city for years now, just to get punished more, even more important question is: why build it even further?Allistaire in last tournament has actually done us a great favor in proving the point as to how much advantage the smaller city have over the evolved cities.Technically, the joke is on us.As previously said, does INNO want the end game players to continue playing the game?The only reason I am still around is my very slight hope that INNO will see what they have done, and make adjustments to the new tournament.
And to play a devils advocate, why should the small city players ever advance their cities if they know that they are just going to be in greater disadvantage in doing so?Why not get rid of the tourney all together then?All the relics, KP's and rune shrads can't be used, because they will be used against you.Maybe the small city players have not realized that yet, but we have.And god beware if we add couple more expansions to the city...

@Meggi They ask for no discussion on that thread.

 

[sam767]

Looking at Ceravyn, I don't see any huge anomalies in the top few players.
I'm not exactly clear on what the new super cities are like. It appears that the CH4 tournament specialists that have scouted out to ring 9 are going to move a few chapters to the right and pick up where they left off with even better results. And if they did not buy expansions - they will be in much better shape. Is this about right?

 

[Clusseau]

Looking at Ceravyn, I don't see any huge anomalies in the top few players.
I'm not exactly clear on what the new super cities are like. It appears that the CH4 tournament specialists that have scouted out to ring 9 are going to move a few chapters to the right and pick up where they left off with even better results. And if they did not buy expansions - they will be in much better shape. Is this about right?

Hm... best i can say is to Read the other thread- (Start in the newer one)- about tournament changes.

Apologies, RE your actual question... =i have NO IDEA.
...It Seems the actual answer would depend mostly on the "Advancement Intentions" of the player?
Top players now have no Goals or objectives... those right behind maybe THINK they Do, but they dont, really...

Players sitting more towards the Middle May Also think they have a Game to Play...
...and it will take a bit longer for them to figure out that Progress is Harmful...

Quit Now... Quit Soon... Quit a little later...
INNO has geared the Game for those that havent even thought about reading Forum yet..
....(or who havent even Bit on their first Click-Bait, to Play?) ....The rest of us are just Fill...

 

[SoggyShorts]

2) learning curve fighting, takes 4x as long with 1 fight per province.

How much learning is there really?
Rock-Paper-Scissors is pretty quick to pick up on, and
"Stay out of melee range if possible"
Is pretty much the whole thing.
If you really want more, either clear more of the map to unlock more fights or start a second city. Or both.

7) Event tasks were not scaled back to reflect new tourn changes.....
( complete 8 t-encounters ) used to be 2 provinces, now its 8..... sayyyyy whaaaaaat ?

Yes, they were scaled. For previous events, it was always 4:1 as in 6 map encounters or 24 tournament encounters.
The only exception was the most recent event where they changed the tournament from 4 to 1on BETA but also adjusted the event down from 4 to 1 on both Beta and Live giving Live servers a huge unintended advantage making the event far easier than it should have been.

as a CH3/4 player, it used to mean something getting my 1620 pts per week, now that is NO challange !!!!
When I see FSs now that get 15+ chests, I puke, we still can't get 10

Then get more points? If 1,620 points is too easy, try 2,000? 3,000?
How are you complaining that the tournament is now too easy for you and that your FS also isn't getting as many chests as you want?

 

[Mykan]

Retracted
Will re-confirm with owner of screenshot

 

[Pheryll]

Town on the left has max expansions, both have max world map expansions so difference is the premium expansions.

Do both towns have the same number of researches? End tech doesn't mean the research parameter is the same, and a 13% increase in expansions should not net an over 100% increase in tournament squad size. Something seems off with this.

 

[Mykan]

Do both towns have the same number of researches? End tech doesn't mean the research parameter is the same, and a 13% increase in expansions should not net an over 100% increase in tournament squad size. Something seems off with this.

Will have to see what difference is in optional techs, SS were skipped mostly from when that was a thing so will come down to more recent chapters and optional techs.

 

[Darielle]

Since I am finally back at my PC, I can post my promised screen shot too. This is province 25 - Star 1:

View attachment 8555

Again, this far in, these numbers do not bother me. Maybe if I had 10 more premium expansions and another 50 or 100 AW levels, it would be different.

Oh my freakin heck. That's crazy. No wonder fights are so hard this week.

I'm finding it very difficult to fight ... more so than at any time before. For example, province 17, second star. I had fire fed, Dwarven armorer and Unleashed Unit Upgrade out. I get for enemies in that province: One mage squad; four heavy range squads. I put out one dogs squad and four elder treant squads. I get slaughtered ... not just lose, mind you, but it's an annihilation. All troops were level 3 both sides. Sorry, but this I do not understand. What good is wasting pet food in this case? What good is wasting two upgrade buildings? I also have a Martial Monastery that should provide some kind of boost, shouldn't it? What's the point?