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    Your Elvenar Team

Discussion Tournament Changes

ET-inf3rno

Well-Known Member
If you normally do a lot less, (7500, your average in the last cycle) getting and calling a 1 out of 9 tournaments 14K push "without any real effort" a strange way to describe the issue.
Real effort would be placing more than 1 DA and using up some time boosters. I rather keep those and do a consistent 8k or more. I think it gives me more KP and RP in the long run.

I survive on owning a level 35 needles(accedentely destroyed it almost back to 35), victory springs, flying academy and sapiens.
A tournaments optimised town and a strategy that has developed over the years and the kicker 3 BROWN BEARS!
I have a level 32 simia, the needles only level 17. I have 2 brown bears, but I rarely use them nowadays. I use the polar bears and a level 21 timewarp to have zero cooldown. I could get rid of the timewarp too, because it is a luxury to have 21 AW levels for nothing, but I like to do almost everything on tuesday or wednesday and do a little more on saturday before it ends. I agree that the simia makes a difference, but I have an abandoned 200k city without it and even there I could do 10k+, so it is not everything. Fighting skills and booster buildings matter a lot, not to mention having an optimal city layout.
 

SoggyShorts

Well-Known Member
But doesn't the increase in tournament and Spire squad sizes get outweighed by the increase in training speed and training size that comes from leveling up the military buildings and the AWs that do the same?
I don't think they always do, no.
E.G. The jump from where I am now at 1 tech into CH16 to the last tech available is 28% increase in SS.
The techs in Chapters 16 and 17 will not increase my troop production by anything even close to 28%.
Perhaps a few hundred levels in military wonders will, but that's a long road after a huge jump and there's a cap on those too.
 

CrazyWizard

Well-Known Member
Real effort would be placing more than 1 DA and using up some time boosters. I rather keep those and do a consistent 8k or more. I think it gives me more KP and RP in the long run.


I have a level 32 simia, the needles only level 17. I have 2 brown bears, but I rarely use them nowadays. I use the polar bears and a level 21 timewarp to have zero cooldown. I could get rid of the timewarp too, because it is a luxury to have 21 AW levels for nothing, but I like to do almost everything on tuesday or wednesday and do a little more on saturday before it ends. I agree that the simia makes a difference, but I have an abandoned 200k city without it and even there I could do 10k+, so it is not everything. Fighting skills and booster buildings matter a lot, not to mention having an optimal city layout.

Your missing part of the point, finish your current chapter, get another 15 expansions, and 622 wonderlevels, then come back tell us again there is no issue.
Because thats the difference between you and me.
 

ET-inf3rno

Well-Known Member
Your missing part of the point, finish your current chapter, get another 15 expansions, and 622 wonderlevels, then come back tell us again there is no issue.
Because thats the difference between you and me.
You mean 222 AW levels. I rather stop at 100 and and donate my KP to ppl who really need it. That's the difference between you and me.
 

Pheryll

Well-Known Member
And once I get to the research for the barracks and armory, I will catch back up again.
The military buildings in chapter 17 have two upgrades together granting 11% increase in speed. The tournament squad size increase for the chapter is 15% from research alone. That means 4% more troops are needed to progress as far in the tournament when comparing before chapter 17 to its completion.
 
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SoggyShorts

Well-Known Member
You mean 222 AW levels. I rather stop at 100 and and donate my KP to ppl who really need it. That's the difference between you and me.
Wait... So think that you're a more generous KP donator than @CrazyWizard and that means that there is nothing wrong with the new tournament formula?
Has covid made people crazy? Is it like cabin fever or something?
 

sam767

Well-Known Member
I've mentioned it before and I'll bring it up again. I think it will clarify the different views of the changes between players like me, and the super players like @Shyama1. I mention him again because he posted an extensive analysis about what the changes did to him in the feedback thread. All of us who want to tell the super players to "just get over it" should go read his posts. The frustration of the super players is completely understandable. Inno pulled the rug out from under them. The limited recovery options (emphasis on limited) available require writing off a significant investment in cash and time. And they will never get back to where they were.

My city seems to close to the baseline Inno examined when defining the impact of the change on late game players. Early in 17 with Max expansions, 1.26M ranking. Last time I checked, my MiniMax CAL score was 8700ish. I have a Firebird, Mr. Brown Bear., Polar Bear, L26 needles, L26 MM, L12 Forge, L11 Toad, L18 Shrooms, L12 TimeWarp, L12 Simia, L11 FA, L11 Toad, L12 VS. So I have a huge number of upgrades to my martial AWs in front of me.

We all agree that my progress through 17 in isolation will make the tournament more difficult for me. But when I add in all of the martial AWs that will advance, it is at least a wash and will probably get easier for me. I like the new format in large part because I hated the old: it was mind-numbingly tedious for me to get 5K and a 200KP every week. It is much better for my FS. Getting to be a consistent gold spire FS placed a lot of stress on us. This upgrade eliminates any stress from the tournament.

This, I think, is the crux of the differing opinions on the change.

I think Inno can make some easy changes to reduce the pain for the super players - more AW levels that open up before the next guest race seem obvious.
 

SoggyShorts

Well-Known Member
1.) Research affected the tournament squad size in the previous system too, so this is not a legit question.
2.) Why would you unpurchase an expansion? You can build factories or unit producing buildings on it, which compensate the increased tournament squad size.
3.) Yes, it is a little bit harsh, but it is the only way. I already removed some AWs and I'll continue when I have the room to replace them with something else.
1) Exponential now, totally different.
2) Diminishing returns vs exponential increases,
3) LoL "Some of you may die today, but that's a sacrifice I'm willing to make"
 

ET-inf3rno

Well-Known Member
Wait... So think that you're a more generous KP donator than @CrazyWizard and that means that there is nothing wrong with the new tournament formula?
Has covid made people crazy? Is it like cabin fever or something?
It's more about how you play the game. I like to grow together with the FS and care somewhat less about that my city is perfect or that I have better points on the tournament.
As of the formula, I don't think there is a perfect one. For me the previous one was a lot worse, for others I guess the new one can be worse.
 

ET-inf3rno

Well-Known Member
I've mentioned it before and I'll bring it up again. I think it will clarify the different views of the changes between players like me, and the super players like @Shyama1. I mention him again because he posted an extensive analysis about what the changes did to him in the feedback thread. All of us who want to tell the super players to "just get over it" should go read his posts. The frustration of the super players is completely understandable. Inno pulled the rug out from under them. The limited recovery options (emphasis on limited) available require writing off a significant investment in cash and time. And they will never get back to where they were.
Maybe ask Shyama how he managed to collect 655.000 KP in 3 years (4k/week average)... Doing 20k TP each week gives you only around 1k/week, maybe you can get another 1k/week from KP threads, daily KP, event buildings, crafting, etc... but that is an overestimation. I bet he bought the rest for diamonds and spent somewhere between $50.000-$100.000 on the game in the last 3 years!
 

ET-inf3rno

Well-Known Member
Why would this be anyone's business? And why would you math it out like it is someone else's business and like you actually have a leg to stand on?
Because now the same people who pushed a massive amount of KP are whining the loudest that the game is flawed. I guess it is hard to accept that using cheats have its side effects, just like being banned from other games. Ofc. there is still a small chance that he really spent the price of a house on the game or there is a magical solution for getting thousands of extra KP each week. So sure, I can still be wrong.
 
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GlamDoll

Well-Known Member
but the game is flawed now, no matter how we ALL slice it. I don't like being nerfed & worse? I don't like going in reverse, even less. Can anyone show me a game Forum, where a nerf worked out? ...

No! Nobody can!

Edit: Speaking of nerfs & microtransactions...I was recently told about Eveonline, in this very thread. I have sponged the forum of that game A LOT. It takes over a YEAR, to specialized in anything there. The nerfs are off the chart! Don't believe me...go check it. I'll wait! No, really.
 
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ET-inf3rno

Well-Known Member
but the game is flawed now, no matter how we ALL slice it. I don't like being nerfed & worse? I don't like going in reverse, even less. Can anyone show me a game Forum, where a nerf worked out? ...

No! Nobody can!

Edit: Speaking of nerfs & microtransactions...I was recently told about Eveonline, in this very thread. I have sponged the forum of that game A LOT. It takes over a YEAR, to specialized in anything there. The nerfs are off the chart! Don't believe me...go check it. I'll wait! No, really.
What do you mean by nerf? :D
 

Risen Malchiah

Well-Known Member
As of the formula, I don't think there is a perfect one. For me the previous one was a lot worse, for others I guess the new one can be worse.
Actually, there is a perfect formula and it was suggested early on in the beta feedback before all these changes went live. It would have kept the good, improved on the bad, while still keeping the spirit of what Inno wanted to do but without punishing progression so much. But it was ignored.

What this entire experience has taught me is that making suggestions to Innogames is like pissing into the wind.
 

ET-inf3rno

Well-Known Member
Actually, there is a perfect formula and it was suggested early on in the beta feedback before all these changes went live. It would have kept the good, improved on the bad, while still keeping the spirit of what Inno wanted to do but without punishing progression so much. But it was ignored.

What this entire experience has taught me is that making suggestions to Innogames is like pissing into the wind.

I have mixed experience. I think they read the forum and sometimes agree with the goals we mention, but they always end up implementing it their way. So it might be wasting time if you talk about implementation details in depth, but this is just an impression. It is somewhat similar to the Ford story, where people wanted faster horses and Ford made the automobile instead.
 
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