• Dear forum visitor,

    It looks as though you have not registered for a forum account, or are not signed in. In order to participate in current discussions or create new threads, you will need to register for a forum account by clicking on the link below.

    Click here to register for a forum account!

    If you already have a forum account, you can simply click on the 'Log in' button at the top right of your forum screen.

    Your Elvenar Team

Tournament Changes

KarlD

Well-Known Member
I'm at endgame and I am honestly wondering where to go next. Yes, I will do chapter 17 because it's the things to do, but the point of "advancing" is to actually be stronger and more capable. I had reached a point where I could do 50-60 provinces in the tournament and complete the Spire. I had more goods than I knew what to do with. I could get more ranking points, but ranking points just by themselves are pointless if I'm not more capable. With the new system I feel less capable. I can do fewer provinces than before and it feels like advancing will just make me less capable still. If advancing doesn't allow me to do more than I could before then what's the point? I mostly fight through Spire and Tournaments so more advanced workshops, houses, and factories will get me more ranking points, but if I can't tourney farther or Spire higher (I already reach the top each week) there seems little point in advancing. For example, it used to be that in the Spire I could kill one dog with two hits of my frogs without using a Fire Phoenix. I upgraded some AWs and now it takes 3 hits. Because it takes more hits the remaining dogs do more damage to my mages and light-ranged units and because it takes more hits it actually takes longer to fight. I feel like I'm moving backwards as a result of my upgrades. I sincerely doubt that whatever upgrades I did will actually make up for the increased losses I'm now incurring.

As for this last tournament, I reached province 38 and basically ran into a brick wall. Even with a DA, ELR, and MMM it was a hard fight to win even with manual fighting. I actually never won it, but felt I could have with heavy losses. From the marked increase in difficulty I was experiencing it seemed like a waste to bother going further. Based on the difficulty of provinces 37 and 38 I really can't imagine doing more than a handful of additional provinces and maybe not even that many. When the tourney squad sizes are approaching 10 of my world map squad sizes and I'm losing 3 or 4 tourney squads in a fight that adds up really fast and of course the fights are getting both bigger and more difficult. I really can't even imagine what gains I could possibly get from AWs and other upgrades that will appreciably increase my capability so that I could do significantly more tourney provinces. Still, this is just the first tournament under the new system and I'll wait and see how the next one goes.

The prizes for the added chests are okay. We got 17 chests so that's an extra 70 AWKP and 7 RR spells, which is better than nothing, but doesn't make up for the loss of 150 to over 200 real KP I experienced because of doing fewer provinces. Of course, there are many in my fs that were not going nearly so far in the tournament and have experienced a net gain in KP. I'm sure those RR spells will add up over time as well.
 
Last edited:

Swankey Bob

Member
My biggest issue with these changes is that the difficulty is being scaled for me to progress in the tournament, but the rewards are not. This means it is costing me more to get less in return now. I have easily spent over 1000 usd on my city and did so specifically to reach high in the tournament because of the substantial rewards.

This is not a small change in the amount of rewards. Last tournament I was able to get around 500 KP and a truckload of other items/relics while I would be lucky to get a third of that with the new changes.

I get that all the other changes are positive but I do not think its fair to scale difficulty without proportionately scaling rewards. Otherwise all this does is punish players who are high achievers. I would prefer the old system with all of its flaws to the way things are now. It does not seem like a fair adjustment.
 

Swankey Bob

Member
The equation is composed of several terms multiplied together. Each AW level (so 1 AW at level 10 and another at level 5 would be 15 levels) appears to increase costs and squad size by 0.3%

If this is true thats horrible. That would directly punish players for advancing and make the optimal tournament strategy to avoid the majority of AW's. What would even be the point in building an AW that buffs your troops when it also buffs the enemy's?

I really hope this is wrong. I could see many players flat out walk away from the game because of these sorts of toxic changes. There has to be more fair ways to establish game balance.

-edit
Actually after digging in a bit more it looks worse. Players difficulty appears to be scaled by number of diamond expansions, normal expansions and goods boosts. Thats offensive. I feel like there is no point in trying to progress if I am just going to be punished for it.
 
Last edited:

GlamDoll

Well-Known Member
I really hope this is wrong. I could see many players flat out walk away from the game because of these sorts of toxic changes.

Inno is pushing the envelope as far as I am concerned! Whether it be Algorithims/AI/Data mining scientist/etc... that they have, they want to know what is the tipping scale & breaking point, as far as I am concerned. This is great, when it is to the gamer's advantage, or at least not to our detriment...but this is no longer the case.

Long story short? These tech companies are 100% convinced, that they have a 'pulse' on every single 'user's' data & therefore the exploitation continues at warp speed like never before!

Still too long? Fair!

The experimentation continues & this is why Inno does NOT listen & forge ahead!

We are lab rats in their maze!

@InnoGames You can take it to the bank! I am not only counting on it, but I am betting on it too. You've been 'called'! Surprise, no answer!
 

GlamDoll

Well-Known Member
Careful using experimentation and lab rats in the same sentence you are talking about a German company. Although I have read that the majority of the younger generations don't even know what the Holocaust was.

Not to worry, I turn 53 this month & I usually do not disclose such info. I stand by it. The hour is late.

Edit: And, technically, they are two sentences, not one.
 

Swankey Bob

Member
So I have been thinking about the AW buffing the enemy army a bit more and it kinda invalidates the use of AW's completely for Tournament / Spire players.

So a lvl 20 Sanctuary provides a 21% health boost. But this does not increase fighting power by 21%. Health has been projected to boost auto calc effectiveness by roughly a third of what attack does so that translates to a 21% health boost increasing overall fighting power by 7%. But then it buffs enemy fighting power by 6% @ .003 per level so your lvl 20 sanctuary is, in the end, buffing your armys fighting power by 1% relative to the enemy's. Whats even more amusing is that a lvl 30 Sanctuary would boost the enemy army by 9% while increasing fighting power by 10% which, once again provides a 1% buff. So levels 2-20 are a detriment and lvls 20-30 do nothing.

That is pretty steep. If those numbers are right at that point it is literally better to just build the lvl1 sanctuary and leave it at lvl1. Can I submit a support ticket to have my sanctuary downgraded? Lol..
 

CrazyWizard

Oh Wise One
So I have been thinking about the AW buffing the enemy army a bit more and it kinda invalidates the use of AW's completely for Tournament / Spire players.

So a lvl 20 Sanctuary provides a 21% health boost. But this does not increase fighting power by 21%. Health has been projected to boost auto calc effectiveness by roughly a third of what attack does so that translates to a 21% health boost increasing overall fighting power by 7%. But then it buffs enemy fighting power by 6% @ .003 per level so your lvl 20 sanctuary is, in the end, buffing your armys fighting power by 1% relative to the enemy's. Whats even more amusing is that a lvl 30 Sanctuary would boost the enemy army by 9% while increasing fighting power by 10% which, once again provides a 1% buff. So levels 2-20 are a detriment and lvls 20-30 do nothing.

That is pretty steep. If those numbers are right at that point it is literally better to just build the lvl1 sanctuary and leave it at lvl1. Can I submit a support ticket to have my sanctuary downgraded? Lol..
The main combat wonders zldo add a positive effect to the tournaments. Especially needles, temple of toads dragon abbey and monestary/sanctuary.

It's the non/little combat wonders that are detrimental.
 

Swankey Bob

Member
The main combat wonders zldo add a positive effect to the tournaments. Especially needles, temple of toads dragon abbey and monestary/sanctuary.

It's the non/little combat wonders that are detrimental.
If you think about it thats not always true. Last gems tournament I hit over 15k using only mages. With the new system every AW that boosts units other than mages would have also had a negative effect because they would be buffing units I didn't use in the fight while also buffing the enemy army.
 

Pheryll

Set Designer
But then it buffs enemy fighting power by 6% @ .003
The percent increase in difficulty is relative to all the wonders you have in play. The multiplier is linear, not exponential. So if you had the Martial Monastery + all attack bonus buildings at level 30, you would be increasing the number of units brought on both sides by 54%. The ratio of your strength to the enemy's strength would be improved by all these wonders. Throw in a level 30 Simia Sapiens and the time reducing wonders, and you are bringing in 72% more units than with no wonders, but are producing 180% more units than with no wonders, and all units are boosted with +40% attack and +30% hitpoints.
 

hvariidh gwendrot

Well-Known Member
forget the .003 this and quadratic that, in simple lingo it goes like this>>> all i have to do to get an advantage in tournament and/or spire is sit in 1 spot and crank my combat wonders to level 30+, and delete the ones that add production boosts, trading discounts, pop, culture, or anything else that isn't strictly combat boosting related or my troops get weaker, oh and don't expand my city size either as that also adds to my troops getting out matched .. thinking brought to you by folks who thought invading the rest of europe was a good idea
 

edeba

Well-Known Member
Well, haven't posted in a while.

This new formula (SS) has really messed up my gaming and the pleasure I used to have for this game.

I used to average 4k+. Today, I realized if I only auto-fight, I'll probably be able to clear to round 3, 15 provinces, with using Fire Phx (guessing here)
The SS of 1st round 10th province was 75% over mine.

Anyway, I'm not going to get into the math of it all. Just say a few words.

I enjoyed this game a ton, and invested in it. I feel like my investment has gone amok.
In the real world, it happens, "most" investments are gambles, they may work or not.
Here, a group of people decided to change the game, which IMO. has lead to ruining "long-time investors/gamers", but paving the road for new people.
This is exactly how most business' work. They offer sick, crazy, cheap deals to new comers and disregard their old loyal customers. I've been through this with a few companies in real life, which resulted in me outright leaving. 15+ years of sticking with 1 company.

I kind of feel the same way here, other than I've only be here a fraction of the time. So... ya, just my 2 cents. I was one of few who always had positive feedback, but not this time.

Good luck to all the old school players, hope you find a good balance with this.
Good luck to all the new players, keep in mind, you'll eventually be where we/I am. Inno will keep doing this, cause they can.
With the release of chapter 17 on beta it hit even harder how much this has screwed the game. It just appears if you want to slaughter your ability more, do the chapter.

How incredibly stupid to put players in a position that some have deleted AW, others like me see no point in doing the next chapter. I couldn't help but notice over half of the top FS were down one or more players after the first week of this new tournament. I know for sure that one is gone because of this moronic move. I know others that will not place expansions and totally regret picking up premium expansions. There certainly is no clarity of the purpose of the game any more. A tournament for a tournament's sake just doesn't cut it and the changes have just made things that used to make sense and SHOULD make sense to no longer do so. I was shocked at what chapter 16 did to the spire, and at the very least, we know that chapter 17 will do that to both the tournament and spire.... People selling wonders? People leaving expansions unplace? Total lack of clarity, and Inno's line that advancing always makes the game better isn't true.
 

Pheryll

Set Designer
Yeah chapter 16 had two wonders that rewarded you with ranking points to compensate for no longer being able to achieve the top X position in tournaments, and now chapter 17 gives you the oracle of fortune, which gives out the RR that you would have received had your fellowship done decently in the tournament. I wonder what chapter 18 wonders will be to further pull you out of the tournament.
 

edeba

Well-Known Member
This is probably my biggest issue with the change; the reduction of choices in how to play.
Getting 1600 points was pretty equal in difficulty whether you did 6x6, 8x5, 11x4, 3x15, or 2x25 but now the later option(s) have gotten much more costly.
And that's just 1600 points- If you go further because you are in a short-handed FS or you have accepted some newer players into your FS the choices become even narrower and the costs rise significantly at one end.
Totally agree, not only has it been a slaughter for stronger players, the loss of choice and autonomy is huge. The player that can only get on once or twice per day can only get 4 levels, so there's nothing better about the tournament for them. I did suggest they should make the tournament run 5 days because of this, and I suppose an alternative would be to reduce the time on the clock. Even 15 hours for a reset time would make a difference. Right now with an unleveled polar bear you can bring the time down to 14 hours 24 minutes, but that's probably not enough for most people. At 15 hours you'd have 13.5 hours with 10%, and that's a pretty significant difference in ability to get two levels in a day. I've had times where it is only 10 or 15 minutes and I just need to get some sleep.
 

edeba

Well-Known Member
Looks like the coin costs will eventually exceed the cap. At 25 million, they are already almost half way there.
I think this far out it is going up by 1% per province, so although it does look like the coin cap can be exceeded, it doesn't look likely that you can actually get there...
 

Pheryll

Set Designer
I think this far out it is going up by 1% per province, so although it does look like the coin cap can be exceeded, it doesn't look likely that you can actually get there...
By eventually, I was looking at future chapter effects. The research multiplier moves up faster than the maximum capacity of the main hall does.
 

DeletedUser19458

Guest
forget the .003 this and quadratic that, in simple lingo it goes like this>>> all i have to do to get an advantage in tournament and/or spire is sit in 1 spot and crank my combat wonders to level 30+, and delete the ones that add production boosts, trading discounts, pop, culture, or anything else that isn't strictly combat boosting related or my troops get weaker, oh and don't expand my city size either as that also adds to my troops getting out matched .. thinking brought to you by folks who thought invading the rest of europe was a good idea

This has become exactly my strategy. I have 4 unplaced expansions, no interest in playing chapter 17 as it'll only make things harder with no additional rewards, and working on deleting out a few useless wonders (not brave enough to kill my p towers yet, too much KP invested in it!)

Out of spite I will not be buying diamonds from Inno anymore.

We'll see how long this works ... only way to keep my interest in playing this game anymore though.
 
Top