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    Your Elvenar Team

Tournament rewards.

Hugo the ugly

New Member
Tournament scores for the fellowship not the individual player. Recently we did a tournament and collected all ten chest. Then before the prizes where rewarded two players left. We weren't award the Blue prints. Now several players are asking why play if someone can leave and the rest don't get the reward they work so hard for.
 

Iyapo1

Well-Known Member
@Hugo the ugly

The players who left took their points with them. You kept all the points earned by the current members of your FS. So, without those two players your team did not earn enough points.

Hopefully the two made a mistake and did not do it deliberately.
 
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michmarc

Well-Known Member
But I agree it makes more sense for the tourney points you earn in a FS to stay with the FS when you leave rather than leave with the person.

We had something happen about a month ago where someone accidentally left and the rest of us had to scramble to get our 10th chest back.
 

ajqtrz

Chef - loquacious one
Wow, that sucks. I did notice in my tournament tracking for my fellowship, that the points went with the person if they left, but it never happened before the rewards were distributed. It would be nice if, once you got the 10 chests, it became locked in. In other words, rather than use your ending point total (or the total when the rewards are distributed), they used your highest point total during the tournament. Since if you join a fellowship after the beginning of a tournament and your points don't count, why should they not count if you leave after the tournament is over? There is no need to remove those points if somebody leaves since they can't contribute those points to a different fellowship and they were earned while in the fellowship when they earned them. So I vote for "high point" rather than "end point," as the criteria for tournament chests.

AJ
 

Ashrem

Oh Wise One
I'm not seeing a way to fix it that isn't exploitable. Also, points can not stay with the FS. It gives the the mages and ambassadors more than the too-much power they already have. At least now if they kick you out on a Saturday just before the tournament ends, they lose the points you contributed.

This feels like a mistake a person will only make once unless they are dense. Everybody loses.
 

ajqtrz

Chef - loquacious one
@Ashrem So you put in about 5k of pts to get your little fs to X chests. You are all quite happy to have arrived -- except now you can, on Friday night or so, really tell them all what you think! They can't boot you because "poof" the points go with you. Sigh. So they have to sit there and listen to your vast and complex vocabulary of abuse, lies and innuendo. Who did you say had too much power?

Of course once the rewards are distributed you leave and thus the last 12 hours or so were your time time for a free rant.

On the other hand, if the rewards are tied to the highest point total of the original 25 players in the fellowship, the player can't become Godzilla and if the AM/Mage wants to kick them, they can. I'm wondering how many AM's/Mages would kick anybody if they contributed to the goal and if they did kick the contributing player, who in that fs would want to stay? As it is, if they leave or are booted everybody loses over a personnel change they probably had nothing with which to do.

AJ
 

Ashrem

Oh Wise One
@Ashrem So you put in about 5k of pts to get your little fs to X chests. You are all quite happy to have arrived -- except now you can, on Friday night or so, really tell them all what you think! They can't boot you because "poof" the points go with you. Sigh. So they have to sit there and listen to your vast and complex vocabulary of abuse, lies and innuendo. Who did you say had too much power?
Yes. I can make them listen to me for a whole day or two if they are that desperate for the blueprint that they decide to put up with it. So powerful!
 
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T6583

Well-Known Member
I'm wondering how many AM's/Mages would kick anybody if they contributed to the goal and if they did kick the contributing player, who in that fs would want to stay? As it is, if they leave or are booted everybody loses over a personnel change they probably had nothing with which to do.
I have. In some cases I think it’s warranted. There are certain things I won’t stand for in my FS. Name calling, cursing out another player, and a few other things will not be tolerated. Especially if done in chat where I have proof of it. Only one time in my FS did I have a player curse out another player and call them names that I can’t repeat on the forum for making a simple mistake. That player was removed immediately regardless of their tourney score. All of my mages also know to immediately remove a player if they exhibit that kind of behavior and I’m not on at the moment. Sometimes AM’s must make choices to benefit the FS in the long term. I’ve been in an FS where that type of toxic behavior wasn’t dealt with swiftly and it resulted in multiple people then leaving the FS of their own free will because of the toxic player. And it only has to happen once to cause problems.
 

ajqtrz

Chef - loquacious one
I have. In some cases I think it’s warranted. There are certain things I won’t stand for in my FS. Name calling, cursing out another player, and a few other things will not be tolerated. Especially if done in chat where I have proof of it. Only one time in my FS did I have a player curse out another player and call them names that I can’t repeat on the forum for making a simple mistake. That player was removed immediately regardless of their tourney score. All of my mages also know to immediately remove a player if they exhibit that kind of behavior and I’m not on at the moment. Sometimes AM’s must make choices to benefit the FS in the long term. I’ve been in an FS where that type of toxic behavior wasn’t dealt with swiftly and it resulted in multiple people then leaving the FS of their own free will because of the toxic player. And it only has to happen once to cause problems.

Yep, and that's what Mages/AM's are supposed to do. That kind of play is not allowed, probably in any fellowship. But what I think Ashrem was saying was an abuse of power. After all, if AM's/Mages couldn't kick people it would be a really difficult thing to build a drama free fellowship. So "too much" power, as Ashrem said, can't be the power to kick in itself, but the power to kick unjustly. Your case was certainly not unjust and I doubt anybody, blue print or not, would fault the AM/M for their actions.

My argument is that it's also an unjust thing to hold those points over the heads of your fellowship and make them tolerate your abuse until the tournament is over and rewards distributed. My "solution" would prevent both forms of abuse, especially if the rewards were distributed to anyone who was in the fellowship at the beginning of the tournament no matter where they were at the end.

AJ
 

Ashrem

Oh Wise One
My argument is that it's also an unjust thing to hold those points over the heads of your fellowship and make them tolerate your abuse until the tournament is over and rewards distributed. My "solution" would prevent both forms of abuse, especially if the rewards were distributed to anyone who was in the fellowship at the beginning of the tournament no matter where they were at the end.
My argument is that such an occurrence is a learning experience and should not be coddled away. No one should let their life be adversely affected by missing out on a Blueprint they were expecting because they were forced to acknowledge there are bad people in the world and give it up in order to make their position clear. A entire contents of the 10th chest is replaceable by buying the smallest diamond package, even if you can't find any leftover diamonds from the Spire or assorted prizes.
 

Kekune

Well-Known Member
Yep, and that's what Mages/AM's are supposed to do. That kind of play is not allowed, probably in any fellowship. But what I think Ashrem was saying was an abuse of power. After all, if AM's/Mages couldn't kick people it would be a really difficult thing to build a drama free fellowship. So "too much" power, as Ashrem said, can't be the power to kick in itself, but the power to kick unjustly. Your case was certainly not unjust and I doubt anybody, blue print or not, would fault the AM/M for their actions.

My argument is that it's also an unjust thing to hold those points over the heads of your fellowship and make them tolerate your abuse until the tournament is over and rewards distributed. My "solution" would prevent both forms of abuse, especially if the rewards were distributed to anyone who was in the fellowship at the beginning of the tournament no matter where they were at the end.

AJ
I do think that Ashrem's point about power points towards the need for a *balance* of it. Yes, AMs and mages can (and should) be able to boot people. But it makes sense for there to be a loss with the exercise of that power, because that protects a little bit against abuse. It's not bad to prompt someone to think twice before they push that "expel" button.

I'm with T, some losses just need to happen ASAP. But when the behavior is less egregious, it can probably happen after the tourney, and I'd guess at least a few times those points have been the reason someone was allowed to stay and get the rewards they'd earned.
 

Hugo the ugly

New Member
In my case at the end of our tournament a player was unhappy because not every player put in there share. So they left this, this cost the rest of us who made up the difference to lost out on the blue print.
 

NightshadeCS

Well-Known Member
@Hugo the ugly, I am very sorry that person was either inconsiderate or ignorant and left you all in the lurch. Hopefully that will not happen again, as I have seldom seen that behavior in my many years playing.
 

Enevhar Aldarion

Oh Wise One
While it is bad that a player's points are lost by a fellowship when that person leaves, the opposite situation would be as bad, or worse. If the points stayed with the fellowship when someone left, there would be nothing stopping the ranking members of a fellowship from booting people out right before a tournament ends, in order to deprive them of their rewards.

There is no really good way to resolve this, as either points being lost or being kept are both bad results for someone.
 

LordVorKon

Active Member
I feel that the least unfair way to do it is that whoever initiates the action 'loses' the points.
Mage kicks the person out? Fellowship loses that player's points (not that the player can do anything with them, probably).
Player leaves of their own accord? Points stay with the Fellowship.
 

Ashrem

Oh Wise One
So a player who wants to leave but wants to take their points is encouraged to be a total ass until they are kicked out?
 

Enevhar Aldarion

Oh Wise One
So a player who wants to leave but wants to take their points is encouraged to be a total ass until they are kicked out?

Well, whichever way the person leaves a fellowship, the points are lost to everyone. The points leave with the player, but they do not go with the player to a new fellowship. All that work they did is thrown away, whether they leave or are kicked out before the tournament ends.
 

Ashrem

Oh Wise One
Well, whichever way the person leaves a fellowship, the points are lost to everyone. The points leave with the player, but they do not go with the player to a new fellowship. All that work they did is thrown away, whether they leave or are kicked out before the tournament ends.
I was replying to LordVorKon's suggestion that whoever initiates the action should lose the points.
 

Enevhar Aldarion

Oh Wise One
I was replying to LordVorKon's suggestion that whoever initiates the action should lose the points.

Oh, I got that. But because everyone was saying the points leave with the player, I just wanted to make sure any newer players reading this would not think the leaving player actually took their points to a new fellowship, but rather they are lost for everyone.
 

Ashrem

Oh Wise One
Oh, I got that. But because everyone was saying the points leave with the player
Okay, but then why quote me? Your statement is irrelevant to the point that if whoever initiated the split lost the points then players who want to keep their points would be motivated to get themselves kicked instead of quitting.
 
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