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    Your Elvenar Team

Tournament Score Display

Add FS members that have 0 points to FS Tournament score list

  • In Favor

    Votes: 53 77.9%
  • Not in Favor

    Votes: 15 22.1%

  • Total voters
    68
  • Poll closed .

rhonar

New Member
Ever received "hate mail"? I think its not a sound proposal unless it was just for the arch. The worst thing for a player is getting so called encouragement from other players who cannot write diplomatic messages. One thing about a great arch is diplomacy..I have had several players contact me about hate mail in the past. They all left the game except for one. Some of us are well beyond the age of peer pressure and all this would do is cause problems. Some things belong in the arch's hands. How you play - not any of my business. I am not the arch. I check for my scores (am dyslectic so they are always lower than I would like) and only my scores. However, if only the arch were to get a report that showed participation with zero's that would be different bc I believe it would save time for the arch - if they cared. Some dont care. Do you really think I didnt know I had a zero score or only had time for one round? But that zero would alert my arch that I might be having rl issues. Which could be a good thing. Just imagine coming back from the hospital, etc. and reading 24 messages demanding you play, or an explanation why you didnt play in a tournament...but a report to help an arch, now that I can get behind.
 

SoggyShorts

Well-Known Member
Oh noes! So when the tournament starts, there will be 25 names listed with a zero by all their names! How horribly offensive!
....and every second week mine shall remain at zero until Friday! Scandalous!
faint.png
 

SoggyShorts

Well-Known Member
Just imagine coming back from the hospital, etc. and reading 24 messages demanding you play, or an explanation why you didnt play in a tournament
Hogwash. This is a pretend scenario that won't ever happen. Again, if players wanted to harass you for your zero score @gwen has pointed out it's apparently very easy to memorize all 25 members and know that you are missing anyways, so this would already happen.
 

Alram

Well-Known Member
Ever received "hate mail"? I think its not a sound proposal unless it was just for the arch. The worst thing for a player is getting so called encouragement from other players who cannot write diplomatic messages. One thing about a great arch is diplomacy..I have had several players contact me about hate mail in the past. They all left the game except for one. Some of us are well beyond the age of peer pressure and all this would do is cause problems. Some things belong in the arch's hands. How you play - not any of my business. I am not the arch. I check for my scores (am dyslectic so they are always lower than I would like) and only my scores. However, if only the arch were to get a report that showed participation with zero's that would be different bc I believe it would save time for the arch - if they cared. Some dont care. Do you really think I didnt know I had a zero score or only had time for one round? But that zero would alert my arch that I might be having rl issues. Which could be a good thing. Just imagine coming back from the hospital, etc. and reading 24 messages demanding you play, or an explanation why you didnt play in a tournament...but a report to help an arch, now that I can get behind.
Do you feel shame?
 

rhonar

New Member
Hogwash. This is a pretend scenario that won't ever happen. Again, if players wanted to harass you for your zero score @gwen has pointed out it's apparently very easy to memorize all 25 members and know that you are missing anyways, so this would already happen.
But it actually did happen. The worst case scenario's are not always pretend. Obviously, you nor I would do such a thing, but never the less it did happen. And she left the game And she had been playing for years. Another player received hate mail bc she has posted and passed another player on an ancient wonder. Another bc she did not participate in an adventure. I really wish it was hogwash. Most players would never bother but some players just cant resist. Whether the arch or a team to advertise zero playing is just not a good idea.
 

SoggyShorts

Well-Known Member
But it actually did happen. The worst case scenario's are not always pretend. Obviously, you nor I would do such a thing, but never the less it did happen. And she left the game And she had been playing for years. Another player received hate mail bc she has posted and passed another player on an ancient wonder. Another bc she did not participate in an adventure. I really wish it was hogwash. Most players would never bother but some players just cant resist. Whether the arch or a team to advertise zero playing is just not a good idea.
So.... it happened(allegedly), but clearly not due to the zero next to her name, right? Since that didn't exist?
An idea like this that would help out a bunch of people but maybe perhaps might also help a total A-hole be an A-hole is still a good idea.

Fear-mongering for the 0.00x% chance is still hogwash.
 

BrinDarby

Well-Known Member
Wasnt this settle'd last page ?????
make it an AM only function, and done deal......

( Conjunction junction what's your function )
 

OIM20

Well-Known Member
Another player received hate mail bc she has posted and passed another player on an ancient wonder. Another bc she did not participate in an adventure. I really wish it was hogwash. Most players would never bother but some players just cant resist.
Either I have good luck with my current fellowships or others have extraordinarily bad luck.

I'll be honest, my response to that would have been along the lines of, "Did you get promoted to mage/archmage?" if they didn't already hold the rank. Now, if they hold that rank and they're messaging the player, that's another story.

Many FS post on their overview page "no drama". If you're in one that says that and you're getting messages like you describe, take it to the AM. If the AM won't handle the other player, find a new FS. (This is, of course, allowing that the player sending the message isn't in a leadership role and the FS doesn't have requirements that had been violated, such as FA participation or not passing someone's donation on a FS member's AW.)
_________________________________________​
Wasnt this settle'd last page ?????
make it an AM only function, and done deal......
Brin, did you read their comment?
Whether the arch or a team to advertise zero playing is just not a good idea.
They don't even agree that limiting the function would be sufficient reason for them to vote for it.
 

able99

Well-Known Member
I never expected so much passion on this topic.
In a nutshell, the disagreement on the issue boils down to will the zero next to a name embarrass members and/or lead others to bully (my word) or harass non participants.
If I had to do it over again I would have proposed that every member in the fellowship be listed with their score as blank at the start of every tournament. As they add points their points are adjusted accordingly as its done now. I don't think this is much different than the NH list where everyone is listed but those that did NH have a Gold hand rather than green.
Hopefully this can resolve the intense passion and gottya messages (including myself) I hope we can now come together and everyone can support the idea.
 

Kekune

Well-Known Member
....and every second week mine shall remain at zero until Friday! Scandalous!
Me too! How will we live with ourselves, setting such bad examples for our fellows?
I don't think this is much different than the NH list where everyone is listed but those that did NH have a Gold hand rather than green.
Agreed - I think this is a good analogy. Easy access to information doesn't lead to shaming people. Shaming is all about personalities and group culture.
 

CrazyWizard

Well-Known Member
The Tournament Tab and world view tournament banner currently shows the points contributed by each member in the fellowship.
Members with no points are not on the list.
I propose at the start of every Tournament, every member of the fellowship is listed with a 0 score. As they earn points in the tournament, their score is updated accordingly. This is different than adding names to the list as points are contributed.
There are 2 reasons the change would be helpful.
1. It would make it easier to identify a members not contributing in the tournament. Currently to determine who is not contributing, someone needs to compare the roster with the tournament scores to find who is missing. This is a pain to do with a 25 member fellowship and the orders of the names are always different.
2. A member seeing their name with a zero score will encourage tournament participation. Win win for everyone.
I would love this, and on other places as well.

It's an absolute pain to figure out which player is missing the the tournaments, spire or FSA. so any option to make that easier would be great
 

Deborah M

Well-Known Member
I'm with Soggy! I don't for a minute believe that players who are not participating bother to check the tournament participation. Why would they? :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

I also agree with CrazyWizard whole heartedly! The spire and FA are even more of a pain to figure out who is missing!

I check the spire & tournament multiple times every week. It is a pain in the... I put reminders of how many are missing but not their names a couple of times in chat. BUT, I have a 3 strikes your out policy so everybody knows when I kick folks out for nonparticipation. The FA is the worst. I check through all of the contributions and then I do put names missing in the chat toward the end of each level. I give those players X amount of time to contribute anywhere in the level before I pull the flag. Adding: this is as much for them as everyone else so they don't miss artifacts if they need them.
 
Last edited:

crackie

Chef, Scroll-Keeper, Buddy's #1 Fan
Zero is a number. Whatever emotional attachments are connected to it has more to do with the person than the number. In all the scenarios presented, it has more to do with being in an ill-fitting FS.

CASE 1: Person is ashamed and rest of fellowship cares the score is zero.
This FS likely has a minimum. Player signed up for it and accepted the terms with their own free will. Zero is skirting responsibility to the terms so prob need a FS that has lower or no minimums if one is struggling to meet them. If this person has always put in a tourney score and suddenly is putting up zeroes due to real life emergencies, a competent AM will notice something is off. There's likely grace and understanding in handling this situation. If they're NOT understanding, go play for a BETTER fellowship! Don't give your time up to an egomaniac drunk on his own sense of power. It takes 2 people to have a power trip. Remove yourself from that equation and leave them to their tantrums. However, if the player had always been putting up zeroes, then well, it's still a case of being in an ill-fitted FS!

CASE 2: Person is not ashamed and rest of fellowship cares the score is zero.
This FS likely also has a minimum. The zero isn't going to bother this player, but he's still an ill-fit to the FS's culture. Prob will get booted if the AM is competent.

CASE 3: Person is ashamed and rest of fellowship doesn't care the score is zero
Well look at that, nobody else cares! The person is the only one beating themselves up over it. The fear is in their head and does not reflect reality bc nobody is actually judging them!

CASE 4: Person is not ashamed and rest of fellowship doesn't care the score is zero.
Kumbaya.

Personally, if something comes up in RL and I have to peace out and disappear without being able to contact anyone beforehand, I'd be totally cool with it if my FS drop kicks me to the curb and replace me with someone active. I'm in a Gold FS and it takes a village to get Gold. It's not for me to hog up a space on the roster if I can't be around. If they want me back, they'd make room for me when I can play again. If not, on to make new friends!
 

DeletedUser29768

Guest
Excellent summary, @crackie! I think you covered all the bases. As far as I can see, #3 is the only one where it's actually doing any kind of harm, and in this case it's self-inflicted. The solution is simply to get over it, not to remove a beneficial feature. And, yes, I agree that if someone is hating on you because your score is zero, it's probably time to move on from that fellowship. (I still think there's a good chance they would do it even if your score was not visible as a zero, but it might make it easier for them, so it could be seen as a downside.) In any case, this suggestion has a clear objective value, which IMO more than compensates for any slight aggravation of (pre-existent) "fs hate" it might produce.
 

crackie

Chef, Scroll-Keeper, Buddy's #1 Fan
As far as I can see, #3 is the only one where it's actually doing any kind of harm, and in this case it's self-inflicted. The solution is simply to get over it, not to remove a beneficial feature.
Or...they could just do one tourney province. Alternatively, they can also buy a sports yellow Lambourghini to overcompensate for their inner sense of inadequacy. Maybe a pressure washer. There are many ways out of this. One does not need to be so completely helpless to the Donut of Terror.
 

DeletedUser29768

Guest
Or...they could just do one tourney province.
Whoops, forgot to mention that option. That's what has me really confused about this whole thing; as Soggy pointed out, it's utterly ridiculous for someone to be freaking out about having a score of zero, and yet they're not willing to participate. That just doesn't make sense as a reason to vote against this suggestion.
 

crackie

Chef, Scroll-Keeper, Buddy's #1 Fan
They're introducing Fellowship Perks soon, which includes assigning levels to fellowships now. If you're in a fellowship with low activity and thereby, low fellowship level, are you going to feel ashamed your fellowship might suddenly be assigned level 0? Or does it only matter if your inactivity is unveiled on an individual basis and not collectively? The devs said in the video they're trying to promote MORE tournament engagement so that's where the game is heading. Are people laying weekly goose eggs in tournament suddenly feeling like the devs are shaming them? Should the devs just scrap Fellowship Perks features so nobody feels bad?
 
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