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    Your Elvenar Team

Tournament/Spire Formula SUCKS!!

The Unbeliever

Well-Known Member
Also adding on to the insane levels of stupidity, is how the devs have added in all/nearly the various resources to the negotiating system.

So Ch.9 players now have to potentially use Orks. But Ork production at that stage is god-awful. Get one unlucky run where 4-5+ encounters in a row demand Orks for negotiating, and it can easily equal 2-3+ days worth of production.

By Ch.10, now we throw mana into the mix, but again, mana production is hilariously low if your only access is to the basic research tree mana buildings and/or the newer event buildings which have been knee-capped horribly in their production per tile.
(thank fething god I'm sitting on a small stack of Mana Huts from two years ago! o_O )

By Ch.13, now we add in T4 Sentient goods, because... "reasons".


And on and on it continues, adding in the decaying goods to the negotiating system.
While the Orks & Mana problem eventually sort themselves out, as those productions do get better, the addition of the Sentient goods is a literal junk shot. And god forbid when they inevitably add in Ascended goods! (and their laughably unworkable unique trading system)

At the very least, get the Sentient + Ascended goods out of the damn negotiating, since keeping up huge stockpiles of those is next to impossible...
Sure, you can plant certain AW's to reduce the whole decay mechanic, but then you're exponentially increasing the amount used per negotiations due to the fethed up formula.
And of course, just by the looks of things on beta, the Ascended goods system is an absolute abomination of games design at this point! >.<
 

Iyapo1

Well-Known Member
So Ch.9 players now have to potentially use Orks.
This seems to be solvable with orcs nests and witch's huts(should you have one) and of course double duty Breeding grounds for those who fight a lot.
mana production is hilariously low if your only access is to the basic research tree mana buildings
In chapter 9 and 10(and even 11 un-upgraded) the Festival Merchant helps with this, why would a player only use basic research tree mana buildings?
 

The Unbeliever

Well-Known Member
This seems to be solvable with orcs nests and witch's huts(should you have one) and of course double duty Breeding grounds for those who fight a lot.
Currently my Ch.9 human city has;
Witch Hut
1x Mausoleum Wedding
1x Scare Carriage
2x Ork Nest
2x Ork Ship
1x Lv21 Armoury on 12hr production cycles

That's 5360 Boyz/day when getting both 12hr armoury productions. (5070 the odd day I miss both 12hr collections)
On a bad run, especially the 2nd floor, I can easily chew through 20k or more Orks negotiating, simply because the RNG decides it wants to demand in 8-10+ encounters.

Now, because I move at a truly glacial pace through the research tree, *I* have littler to no problems continuing on with catering the 1st + 2nd floors every week.
BUT!
The Spire's demands in no way are actually balanced towards what an average Ch.9 city produces in Orks every week. If was 'just playing normally' vs. near-perma camping each chapter, I know I would be having serious problems maintaining both Lv2 Spire + Tournies every week.
(I in fact had to redesign my entire city specifically to accomodate a much larger daily Ork production)

The dev's screw-ups should not be forcing players' choices in how they're near-forced to build their cities. (ie: I have an extremely heavy Ork production for a Ch.9 city IMHO)


In chapter 9 and 10(and even 11 un-upgraded) the Festival Merchant helps with this, why would a player only use basic research tree mana buildings?
Many players will be very hesitant and/or outright refuse to place buildings they don't like the look of/utterly hate visually.
The Orky themed buildings from the Woodelvenstock event are among the more visually unappealing to many, while the Ork & Gobbo chapter itself seems to be the universally most hated visually. (seriously people, "wot's wiv no luv fer da boyz - green iz best!?!")

It may seem silly from a purely analytical view point, but I'd wager that most players will actively avoid using buildings they find visually distasteful.
(and to be fair, I'm partially in that camp myself, as I despise the idea of a city filled with 'umpteen copies of just the same half dozen buildings. :p)
 

Lelanya

Scroll-Keeper, Keys to the Gems
Lol @The Unbeliever I think orc chapter is actually the best designed chapter in the entire game.
It is particularly hard on Elven cities, I think they get the most 'culture shock' because they've had good culture buildings, well matched, higher values, to use to make visually appealing cities; hence the complaints about orcs.

I think that this chapter teaches valuable lessons about space, and balance of productions. I absolutely do not recommend portal profiting through this chapter.
 

Iyapo1

Well-Known Member
I absolutely do not recommend portal profiting through this chapter.
My beautiful elven city is not going to spend any more time covered in fungus and dung than absolutely necessary!
I will use all my PPs getting through as rapidly as possible with the smallest settlement.
I will use it as a learning opportunity on how to use portal profits to best effect!
 

hvariidh gwendrot

Well-Known Member
i would be careful going all combat with a city build as these later chapters require a massive amount of goods for tech tree and upgrades and if you do not have a well set up goods production and trades structure set up you'll be stuck .. this is just me but i would think about using spire and tournaments to help build a city not build a city to do spire and tournaments as that is what gets most (most i've seen, no idea if it's every world wide) stuck ch 15+ .. i fight way more than negotiate tournaments and spire in all my cities, but always build to trade as a primary style of play, and they all seem fine with the new format at all levels with the mix
 

TalimSwift

Active Member
Here's my strategy and it works 100% of the time, all of the time (LOL). I'm in Unami chapter if you need to know.

Catering the spire is stupidly expensive. Combine all the costs vs the cost of recruiting units and you'll quickly realize that catering costs 10x as much, not to mention, its very frustrating when on the one encounter you're stuck, you start depleting that exact resource which is scarce for you (orcs, mana, seeds or something like that). So catering? nononononono.

But how to win the fights you ask? Well as a player above mentioned, you'll need:
1x Dwarven Armorer
1x Unleashed Unit Upgrade
1x Light Range boost
1x Mage Multiplier
+ feed the bird
Getting one of each to craft per week is easily feasible if you log in at least 2x per day. To improve your chances of getting the recipes, ALWAYS use a 5-hr time boost on recipes for buildings. This ensures that next time the timer restarts, the slot will always refresh a new recipe instead of having the previous one because you are still in cooking mode.
As for the DA, you'll quickly find that getting one per week is almost guaranteed if you do all 3 floors in the spire EVERY week. In fact, i get it clockwork ever since they introduced the artifacts. Since those just wont drop, i get a DA instead.

I personnally choose the simpler way for feeding the bird and placing buildings. I put them on day 1 of tourney, feed bird 3x (for round 1-2, then 3-4, then 5-6)
Since the spire starts before, i simply do first floor without boosts, then wait for the tourney to start to continue.

I havent lost a battle in several months nor catered any encounters. So there you go. easy peasy.

You should also consider removing useless wonders such as the Lighthouses, EE, etc...
My military upgrades are:
MM 21
Abbey, victory springs, Toads, needles and Forge all between 6 and 9. So yes, focus on health before attack %'s

Note: I also REFUSE to cater tournaments. Its odious how expensive it becomes past the 10th province. So i reach province 24 to 30 max by fighting then stop. Thats is where the enemy SS start being over 2x yours.
You'll say, well those Kp come in handy, so i'll cater cuz i dont have the troops this week. No way, might as well just go ahead and buy KP for the goods directly, you'll save at least 50% of your costs
 

The Unbeliever

Well-Known Member
@TalimSwift: That's fine and dandy for later chapter players, but early to mid game it's much more difficult to maintain a high troop production rate, especially if you've invested into AW's in general...

Plus, you're further ganked by having limited/no access to the better specialised troops, (ie: Frogs, Rangers, Blossoms & Ork Strats), while also being stuck with only their 1*/2* versions.

Also, lack of access to both Simia + Timewarp = playing tournaments/spire on a much harder setting vs. having those two AW's... (and add in ToT's once 3* Frogs unlock, which is almost an auto0win button in a decent majority of fights. :p)
 

Black watch

Well-Known Member
Here's my strategy and it works 100% of the time, all of the time (LOL). I'm in Unami chapter if you need to know.

Catering the spire is stupidly expensive. Combine all the costs vs the cost of recruiting units and you'll quickly realize that catering costs 10x as much, not to mention, its very frustrating when on the one encounter you're stuck, you start depleting that exact resource which is scarce for you (orcs, mana, seeds or something like that). So catering? nononononono.

But how to win the fights you ask? Well as a player above mentioned, you'll need:
1x Dwarven Armorer
1x Unleashed Unit Upgrade
1x Light Range boost
1x Mage Multiplier
+ feed the bird
Getting one of each to craft per week is easily feasible if you log in at least 2x per day. To improve your chances of getting the recipes, ALWAYS use a 5-hr time boost on recipes for buildings. This ensures that next time the timer restarts, the slot will always refresh a new recipe instead of having the previous one because you are still in cooking mode.
As for the DA, you'll quickly find that getting one per week is almost guaranteed if you do all 3 floors in the spire EVERY week. In fact, i get it clockwork ever since they introduced the artifacts. Since those just wont drop, i get a DA instead.


I personnally choose the simpler way for feeding the bird and placing buildings. I put them on day 1 of tourney, feed bird 3x (for round 1-2, then 3-4, then 5-6)
Since the spire starts before, i simply do first floor without boosts, then wait for the tourney to start to continue.

I havent lost a battle in several months nor catered any encounters. So there you go. easy peasy.

You should also consider removing useless wonders such as the Lighthouses, EE, etc...
My military upgrades are:
MM 21
Abbey, victory springs, Toads, needles and Forge all between 6 and 9. So yes, focus on health before attack %'s

Note: I also REFUSE to cater tournaments. Its odious how expensive it becomes past the 10th province. So i reach province 24 to 30 max by fighting then stop. Thats is where the enemy SS start being over 2x yours.
You'll say, well those Kp come in handy, so i'll cater cuz i dont have the troops this week. No way, might as well just go ahead and buy KP for the goods directly, you'll save at least 50% of your costs

As The Unbeliever said, for later chapters... I think he it... later chapters have all that and the bag of chips. I can see how that would be an issue for the lower ranked folks.

I think you're spot on for the catering remarks.

As far as the recipe for winning in the spire and tourney, that's just great if you can actually get those items. I check four times a day min. I have my MA set up so I can check and then craft something before it's change over and do so every day. The problem is, since January's change, my MA has gotten stingy to and extreme and Pet Food rarely drops (AGAIN) and the spire has completely dried up in all things except Time, PPs, CCs, Coins, Supply instants and those damn Frags. Now I love my time boosts. I craft them and rely on the spire to get me quite a few and it's been GOOD with that. But DAs, Magic buildings, Genies, have gone on vacation. None since January. My diamond intake fluctuates... some weeks it's good, other's it's just crappy. this week I got 20 diamonds... I spent 125 because a fixed a ranger squad I placed by mistake and I needed it for another wave.
(I mean, come on INNO. To the top every week and PPs are my typical reward for boss's defeated.)

So you're right on with placing those boosts when you have them. Just wait until INNO pulls one of their dry spells and you get "Unlucky"... I think you may change your tune on that part.

I've kept all my AWs... most are for fighting anyway... I'm hoping INNO will finally change their stupid algorithm and not penalize us anymore for growing our cities.

As far as feeding your bird... I place my buildings late on Tuesday and start late if I'm going at a relaxed pace, so my boost buildings are still active all day on Sunday. Lately though, my Timewarp and Polar bear have me at 5:17 per round so I'm placing things later.
It's helped me save the few Pet Food's I get any more...

In general;I think this game is kind of like playing solitaire with a good buddy sitting next to you while you drink a beer or have a cocktail and shoot the breeze... It doesn't have to challenge the hell out of you to be pleasant and fun. It doesn't have to have you sitting on the edge of your seat or firing away at a screen with a fake looking gun killing zombies... It used to be a builder game that helped you relax and pass the time enjoyably. Chatting with your clan members and "working" to get cool looking buildings and such. Now it's filled with drudgery and you're being forced to replenish your goods and army at an alarming rate just to slow the landslide of INNO's stupid ideas lately. Whoever heard of a builder game that isn't?
Fun... INNO's pretty much removed most of that now...
 

hvariidh gwendrot

Well-Known Member
if all you people are not having fun and chatting with your fellowship, enjoying the conversation and helping each other grow .. sounds more like something wrong with the players to me ..but as i have said before the vast majority of people are doing that so they have no reason to come in here and complain
 

TalimSwift

Active Member
To help out with troop production, i do rely on more valorian guard and orc strategist buldings than i should probably keep. Earlier chapters can really benefit from those 2 troops, it saves you from recruiting any treants or paladins, and you can cut by half your heavy ranged recruitments.

In my lower towns i keep 4 or 5 of each, but in my main i got a good dozen of each. I can throw those units under the bus at any time and i dont care. towards end of chapters i trash a few to make space for bigger buildings, then once i start new one, i add a few newer ones as i run with minimal guest race stuff. and i say MINIMUM, portal + 1 production building of each, and some chapters i've even trashed them once the portal got to level 4. The saved space allows me to go overboard on troops, so i never worry about that. As one mentioned above, you get so many PP's in spire, why even bother playing the guest races as intended anymore?
 

Kekune

Well-Known Member
As one mentioned above, you get so many PP's in spire, why even bother playing the guest races as intended anymore?
Just prepare yourself that starting in ch15, you're gonna have to build a settlement as the power of PPs drops sharply. It's a hard adjustment to make if you've instant-ed your way through all the earlier chapters.
 

Black watch

Well-Known Member
if all you people are not having fun and chatting with your fellowship, enjoying the conversation and helping each other grow .. sounds more like something wrong with the players to me ..but as i have said before the vast majority of people are doing that so they have no reason to come in here and complain

When things stop being random for... oh, for four months... It's okay to bitch a bit... I'm just getting the same old thing. That said, many people are fed up with INNO's Tourney algorithm and the spire has gotten seriously hard for no apparent reason than to just be punitive.
As Archmage of the clan I'm in, I hear a lot more negative feedback than we used to have.
INNO's creating an environment that isn't healthy and many people are leaving the game because of it and this has been going on now for months.

Part of the bitching is in fact over the INNO's idea to make building your city a bad thing when it comes to fighting in any way. That's just stupid.
It's a building game... Why base things on progress?
So yeah, there are folks unloading some gripes... myself included. I think it's healthy to find out you're not alone.
Perhaps, just perhaps INNO will take our comments and address our concerns and feedback and correct the issues they brought to the table.
We can only hope.
 

hvariidh gwendrot

Well-Known Member
i've been playing for 3+years now and even on day 1 in here people were running around with their hair on fire talking about how horrible the programmers are and how dumb inno is and how all these horrible changes are going to make everyone quit and it's ruining the game .. fact is game is better and more people are playing .. so i stand by my posts
 

Black watch

Well-Known Member
i've been playing for 3+years now and even on day 1 in here people were running around with their hair on fire talking about how horrible the programmers are and how dumb inno is and how all these horrible changes are going to make everyone quit and it's ruining the game .. fact is game is better and more people are playing .. so i stand by my posts
You can do that, I wouldn't have it any other way... Everyone should have a word or two... :)
 

maeter75

Well-Known Member
Currently my Ch.9 human city has;
Witch Hut
1x Mausoleum Wedding
1x Scare Carriage
2x Ork Nest
2x Ork Ship
1x Lv21 Armoury on 12hr production cycles

That's 5360 Boyz/day when getting both 12hr armoury productions. (5070 the odd day I miss both 12hr collections)
On a bad run, especially the 2nd floor, I can easily chew through 20k or more Orks negotiating, simply because the RNG decides it wants to demand in 8-10+ encounters.


Many players will be very hesitant and/or outright refuse to place buildings they don't like the look of/utterly hate visually.
The Orky themed buildings from the Woodelvenstock event are among the more visually unappealing to many, while the Ork & Gobbo chapter itself seems to be the universally most hated visually. (seriously people, "wot's wiv no luv fer da boyz - green iz best!?!")

It may seem silly from a purely analytical view point, but I'd wager that most players will actively avoid using buildings they find visually distasteful.
(and to be fair, I'm partially in that camp myself, as I despise the idea of a city filled with 'umpteen copies of just the same half dozen buildings. :p)

I concur it can be difficult for sure to get enough ORCS. I am on the 2nd to last chapter but in chapter 15 or16, I used up all my orcs via the guest race without really noticing it. You can use orcs to produce whatever guest race goods there are.

Suddenly I was out of orcs and could not negotiate (several members had the same problem)...it was a big issue, some encounters where not winnable fighting.

Sticking to this thread topic I wished they showed you the formula on how it effects tournaments. Add another 10 levels to a AW and you increase things 5%....something like that.
 
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