Traditional City vs Efficient City?

[DeletedUser3220]

What is the difference between the two cities? Can anyone please, explain? I mean I know what it means as "efficient" but what's a traditional city look like?

 

[shimmerfly]

@snowcone.. Good question!

 

[DeletedUser16078]

Hello, In order to gain sections, space, I'm looking for feedback on an idea I have; namely to eliminate all my military, then expand my commercial areas, and "negotiate" all my expansions etc.

 

[samidodamage]

Hello, In order to gain sections, space, I'm looking for feedback on an idea I have; namely to eliminate all my military, then expand my commercial areas, and "negotiate" all my expansions etc.

Hi!
Just an FYI, you're posting way down here in the Lounge section (usually off-topic stuff here) and less likely to be seen by posters who can help you. Nearer the top of the main forum page are sections "General Discussion" as well as "Questions and Help" and "Battle Help" where your questions will be seen better. Once you go into one of those sections, look in the bottom right corner for a plus (+) sign in a green circle. Click there to open a box where you can start a new thread.
Now, to answer your question:
There are many players who are 'negotiate only' and manage to play without using combat. There are 2 things to keep in mind when removing the military buildings:
1. Many events have quests to produce troops. If you want to be able to participate in events without stalling out, you'll need some military capacity. Most of those quest amounts are based on your Squad Size(SS). Though there are optional SS upgrade techs you can skip, there are mandatory ones you can't or you'll stall in the research tree. If you don't level your barracks and at least 1 armory it will take forever to complete those quests in the events.
2. Once you reach the 10th ring away from your city, a new resource will be required to negotiate: little green orc heads. These are made in armories after the upgrade to lvl 20 (like goods are made in factories). If you have not yet reached the Orcs and Goblins chapter (#8) and researched and upgraded an armory to lvl 20, you have nowhere to get them and it will be a hard stop on the map until you get there. After you're in Ch8, you may be able to acquire event buildings that will make these. Getting them before you're in that chapter won't help because they're stuck at the rewards you won them with (usually supplies or goods).

 

[shimmerfly]

@Artorius Valerius I hope you saw Sami's message above ^ . Good advice, as always, from her. I know I've earned a lot from reading her posts. I do have military buildings but mainly cater or auto fight.

 

[HJK84]

Hmmmm.... I haven't been around a long time, but the definition of the 2 differ for me.

Efficient;

• building a city layout that uses every single tile you have
• not building a city for "aesthetics/looks"; this means, not caring about putting similar buildings next to one another, not caring were buildings are placed as long as they fit and give you maximum potential to add something else

Traditional;

• building a city layout concentrated on "looks"

That's my opinion about the matter.
But I do see what @samidodamage wrote, if I could I'd add that into what I wrote out

 

[DeletedUser3297]

Traditional;

• building a city layout concentrated on "looks"

I get what you mean with your "traditional" city definition, although opinions' will differ on this matter since this is not a city-building game in the traditional sense of the word.

However, I do like to go outside of what is most common practice here. Rows and columns of same building after same building are very boring, but they are efficient in progression through the game.

Well, so is going outside of what is common. You can progress through the game just as easily with a beautiful city, but there are downsides to both. The common cities are high in rank and are always bursting at the seams, complaining for more space. The beautiful cities (depending on how you build them) may never see that struggle, but they can struggle with resource production. So there is give and take, but no matter the city design, every city and every playstyle is different.

I have designed my city to be beautiful and have to overcome a few obstacles to keep it that way. The game designers have said in the past that you should want to keep everything at top level, but why? Top level manufactories only means you probably have millions of goods. The only real benefit to having millions of goods is giving them away to newer players. My manufactories are not top level and I have hundreds of thousands of goods, still plenty to help others. Now the devs are forcing you to be at top level by introducing a second level boost, okay fine with me. My steel will remain at level 16, which is the last beautiful steel manufactory before they started puking molten lava. Now I get to add planks, I've always wanted planks, so I am fine with that.

Anyway, for me, I like to upgrade until the building stops being beautiful. My barracks is level 18 because it works so well with the valentines bridge, my main hall is level 25 because I feel that is the last one that really had human characteristics about it. All my streets are Fairy level, because that's the only street I like, it also means I have to re-build a Fairy settlement at the end of each chapter just to maintain roads. I already have a planks ready to go to elemential just waiting for the winter event to start and the list goes on..

Your city only looks one way, one time. There are too many buildings that are lost forever once upgraded

Here is one of my favorite spots in my city

Spoiler

Also, I like to keep some of the past portals in my city because I like the looks of them, but not all remained at level 4. I sold my Fairy portal just to re-build it to level 3 because I like the flower better. I sold my Dwarven portal and re-built it to level 2 because that portal looks better in front of the bulwark. As an added benefit, I can see all the past guest races walking around in any city that is in that race. I can go to a Fairy city and see Fairies, you get the idea. Too bad I can only see the race I am currently on in my own city, but if I want to look back, I can

 

[hvariidh gwendrot]

you'll need military to play the game correctly, and it's the 11th ring you need orcs for not 10th (i'm doing 10 as i write without any orc anything) p.s. nothing wrong with making a hybrid and having a pretty city with resources that fights

 

[DeletedUser16078]

you'll need military to play the game correctly, and it's the 11th ring you need orcs for not 10th (i'm doing 10 as i write without any orc anything) p.s. nothing wrong with making a hybrid and having a pretty city with resources that fights

Well, if I keep only the minimal military buildings, but....the various others, mercenary camp, etc...have units I can use in tournaments, so only have one armory, then Needles? What could I get rid of? Looking at trade / barter to advance, not combat.

 

[Pheryll]

The bare minimum for an effective military is Martial Monastery (Sanctuary for humans) + Dwarven Bulwark + a few armories for orc production. This combo is enough to get you through many of the tougher fights and does not take up much space. If you are building a large number of armories, take the shrine of the shrewdy shrooms.

 

[Meggi]

As you progress, you will need military regardless, you can't always "buy" provinces with goods.You will run out of them fairly quickly. I actually think building another armory just so I can speed up the processor of building the army. On the other hand, our FS gets 10 chests weekly, without putting too much effort in.
Depends what you want, if you want to be effective player, then I would suggest keeping the armories, and learn how to fight a battle.But, that is why this game is so great, we all make choices that we like, and there is no right and wrong how to play it.

 

[DeletedUser20396]

@Fairy Dust would you mind moving this to the Qurstions and help forum?

 

[NightshadeCS]

As you progress, you will need military regardless, you can't always "buy" provinces with goods.You will run out of them fairly quickly.

While not the route most take, it is certainly possible to get all the provinces you need by catering. It may take longer, but maybe not. Without military buildings, you can build a lot more boosted manufactories. A member of my fellowship strictly caters in provinces and tournaments, and also supplies the rest of us with goods for doing so. You will need something to produce orc heads, so armories or some of the event/crafting buildings that produce them will be needed.

 

[DeletedUser16078]

Ok, I am down to one armory now, I may consider another in the future, but I will try trading to advance....getting to the Orc chapter next.

 

[DeletedUser16078]

I get what you mean with your "traditional" city definition, although opinions' will differ on this matter since this is not a city-building game in the traditional sense of the word.

However, I do like to go outside of what is most common practice here. Rows and columns of same building after same building are very boring, but they are efficient in progression through the game.

Well, so is going outside of what is common. You can progress through the game just as easily with a beautiful city, but there are downsides to both. The common cities are high in rank and are always bursting at the seams, complaining for more space. The beautiful cities (depending on how you build them) may never see that struggle, but they can struggle with resource production. So there is give and take, but no matter the city design, every city and every playstyle is different.

I have designed my city to be beautiful and have to overcome a few obstacles to keep it that way. The game designers have said in the past that you should want to keep everything at top level, but why? Top level manufactories only means you probably have millions of goods. The only real benefit to having millions of goods is giving them away to newer players. My manufactories are not top level and I have hundreds of thousands of goods, still plenty to help others. Now the devs are forcing you to be at top level by introducing a second level boost, okay fine with me. My steel will remain at level 16, which is the last beautiful steel manufactory before they started puking molten lava. Now I get to add planks, I've always wanted planks, so I am fine with that.

Anyway, for me, I like to upgrade until the building stops being beautiful. My barracks is level 18 because it works so well with the valentines bridge, my main hall is level 25 because I feel that is the last one that really had human characteristics about it. All my streets are Fairy level, because that's the only street I like, it also means I have to re-build a Fairy settlement at the end of each chapter just to maintain roads. I already have a planks ready to go to elemential just waiting for the winter event to start and the list goes on..

Your city only looks one way, one time. There are too many buildings that are lost forever once upgraded

Here is one of my favorite spots in my city

Spoiler

Also, I like to keep some of the past portals in my city because I like the looks of them, but not all remained at level 4. I sold my Fairy portal just to re-build it to level 3 because I like the flower better. I sold my Dwarven portal and re-built it to level 2 because that portal looks better in front of the bulwark. As an added benefit, I can see all the past guest races walking around in any city that is in that race. I can go to a Fairy city and see Fairies, you get the idea. Too bad I can only see the race I am currently on in my own city, but if I want to look back, I can

Yes, I quite agree with your position, j I enjoy the beauty of structures, (Art History), and so may follow your lead. contact me if you want oat my citi.

 

[Mykan]

While not the route most take

It is impossible to prove that statement. Just far too many people and far too many possibilities. To be honest from the people I have played with and see on the forums I would actually say in my experience most people take a mixed approach of military and catering.

Well, if I keep only the minimal military buildings, but....the various others, mercenary camp, etc...have units I can use in tournaments, so only have one armory, then Needles? What could I get rid of? Looking at trade / barter to advance, not combat.

If your planning to not combat,as mentioned, then you only need a barracks is already built (can't delete it). Once you approach orc chapter you need an armoury or 2 for orc production unless you have an event building that produces orcs. If you have enough orc producing event buildings you won't even need an armoury.

That said you need to be aware that such a design will find it difficult to complete some event quests as produce x military will be hard or impossible. It may also hinder other quests. Also be aware if you determine to do more in tournaments that cater only is harder than a combination of cater and military. I know a lot of people who were based on catering and due to tournaments have started to pursue more military buildings late in the game as they play "catch up"

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

Just far too many people and far too many possibilities. To be honest from the people I have played with and see on the forums I would actually say in my experience most people take a mixed approach of military and catering.

There are probably quite a few that have a mixed, yet separate, approach like mine, cater when completing provinces and fight when doing tournaments. I rarely mix the two together unless it is a 10-chest tournament run and I run out of troops sooner than I expected. As a qualifier to this system, I have also completed every single squad size upgrade research as of the end of chapter 12 and I do not regret doing it.

 

[Deleted User - 3932582]

I have also completed every single squad size upgrade research as of the end of chapter 12 and I do not regret doing it.

Why no regrets though? The only benefit of SS upgrades AFAIK is easier fights on the map, and you strictly cater those. For fighting tournaments, these are detrimental. Well, not fighting per se, but higher overall losses that are more expensive to recover. Not to mention KP cost of all this research.

So what's the benefit of SSU for you?

 

[Ashrem]

Regret is a personal thing. I don't think it's fair to ask someone why they don't regret something.

 

[Deleted User - 3932582]

Regret is a personal thing. I don't think it's fair to ask someone why they don't regret something.

It is indeed personal, but I am not sure why is it not fair to ask about. The answer could be "I just don't care", or "I want to fill in all research no matter what" etc - that's fine.

But if there is some other benefit they derive that I might be missing, I would like to know.