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    Your Elvenar Team

Unfair Trades

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Buttrflwr

Well-Known Member
On the bright side since they started player movement everyone can have active neighbors to trade with.
Not entirely true. There are those of us that were moved to the bottom of the world...literally...and have very few trading partners that we can reach. Especially with the new snafu'd battle design. Can't scout any more provinces to reach those people way up there out of my reach, because I am trying to catch up to my tech tree. If I DO stick my middle finger out at INNO and scout anyway, I am basically cutting off my nose to spite my face. Though I don't have the best nose in the world, I am kind of partial to having a nose, so, I can't scout to active, trading players. So here I sit, at the bottom of the world, waiting for something good to happen. :p And yes, I have an active FS, but apparently WE ALL HAVE THE SAME BOOSTS. Sigh. :rolleyes:o_O:oops::D

PS, Welcome to the game, Draugen. Ignore the rude Kat, most of us are pretty nice. :rolleyes::cool:;)
 

DeletedUser2388

Guest
Not entirely true. There are those of us that were moved to the bottom of the world...literally...and have very few trading partners that we can reach. Especially with the new snafu'd battle design. Can't scout any more provinces to reach those people way up there out of my reach, because I am trying to catch up to my tech tree. If I DO stick my middle finger out at INNO and scout anyway, I am basically cutting off my nose to spite my face. Though I don't have the best nose in the world, I am kind of partial to having a nose, so, I can't scout to active, trading players. So here I sit, at the bottom of the world, waiting for something good to happen. :p And yes, I have an active FS, but apparently WE ALL HAVE THE SAME BOOSTS. Sigh
That sucks about the boost imbalance. Player movement was kind to me so all my trades disappear instantly over on Khelenaar. Odd they put you away from folks like that. Geuss they haven't heard "nobody puts Baby in a corner"? :p
On the bright side if you still have it set for movement you should have better luck next time when they move folks around.

And all that nose talk made me think I should change my zombified selfie avatar. :eek:
 
Are there just a bunch of horrible, selfish people who play this game, or am I just missing something? It is a rare thing to find a two-star rated trade. I try to make sure mine are at least two stars. Am I just stupid or what? I am pretty new to this, and I don't understand.
I never use the trade system why because you can make all you need to move forward in this game trading system is abused and always unfair to new players, make your own resources and you will be much happier I also don't join a group either.
 

DeletedUser2963

Guest
I never use the trade system why because you can make all you need to move forward in this game trading system is abused and always unfair to new players, make your own resources and you will be much happier I also don't join a group either.
How, exactly is the trading system abused? And how is it unfair to new players?

Making every type of good is possible but it takes up a great deal of space and uses a huge number of supplies. Joining a fellowship is an excellent way to free up that space and those supplies for other things.
 

DeletedUser2388

Guest
I guess some folks aren't very social but it's infinitely easier to get ahead producing boosted only goods (you make more) and then trading for your non boosted resources.
 

Dhurrin

Well-Known Member
First of all, what is a fair trade? If both parties accept the value for value, it is fair.
Nobody is being forced to take trades at rates they don't like, except perhaps when a certain good is scarce, but then it's just economics: supply and demand and yes, that works in a game as well.
But nobody is holding a gun to someones head to take a trade at a bad ratio, so there is nothing unfair about it.

I play banker to my fellowship. And since not battling anymore, I'm getting pretty good at it.
Normally I will trade 1:1 ratio, but I do tend to ask a bit more and grab all the 3 star trades I can see.
To defend that to other members, at any time any FS-members needs any amount of any type of goods, all they need to do is leave a message and the trade is there.
Though with my bulk in goods nowadays I often offer 3-star trades as well when I need to get some kind of goods to get back above the minimum stock I deem necessary.

And of course, since elixer has been really scarce both in the fellowship and the neighbourhoods of most members I have been trading my ass off at about 1 : 1.2 to get the stuff.
So in that case, I charge them the same price. I mean, yes, I like my FS members, but not to the point where I'm daily trading 10K of elixer at a loss of 20%. So they pay me the rate I paid for it, with a little bit extra thrown in.

I profit, since I end up with some more goods. They profit because they get what they want, when they want it, in any amount they want it. And the elixer boosted active players profit.
(But I must say I'm glad with the new elixer boosted members, because it was getting to be really hard to get that much elixer on a daily basis, since it's not my boosted stuff)
 

youreyes

Member
In the fellowship that I am Archmage, we can only do fair trades or you need to find a new fellowship. Unless special trades are made to help a member or a new member.
When you are in a fellowship open the trader and click in the upper left corner, the box that filters the trades to only see your fellowship trades. Those will be your fair trades for your fellowship. Your neighbor trades will not show when that is clicked that you have discovered so far or neighbors that have discovered you, that you have not(these are higher because of the cost the game includes for those trades).
 

DeletedUser2963

Guest
First of all, what is a fair trade? If both parties accept the value for value, it is fair.
Its not about semantics. This offer is fair. This offer is a bargain. This offer is somewhat expensive. These terms are provided in game. An "unfair" trade is a trade that doesn't fall into the two star range...as defined by the game.


If both parties accept the value for value, it is fair. Yes but it would still be called "unfair" if it is a one star trade, because the game defines 2 star trades as fair. if they had defined two star as "even" instead of "fair" we would use that word.

Example: a 2 star cross tier trade demanding tier 1 goods for tier 3 goods is a fair trade according to the game, but its really not....it is in fact a really bad deal. But as long as the people involved in the deal are happy...none of my business. However, I do tend to email any new people who put up tier one goods for tier three....I think they need to know that they can still sell at zero stars. Which according to the game is not fair, but still a bargain.


.
 
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DeletedUser1944

Guest
I agree that most of the junk trades are likely undiscovered players. however, I recently had to boot a fellow because she refused the put up a fair trade. she said people take them so it must be ok and free market blah, blah. so, there are dirt-bags among us.
Have to agree. Had the same happen awhile ago and the remedy was the same. I tell my members to post in chat first one and no star trades. Members who can help will contact them.
 

DeletedUser2388

Guest
We have a fairly new member that posts exploit trades and nothing else. As much as I prefer to fill my FS needs first I'd be shorting myself continually helping this guy out. Such as dust for scrolls or steel but at 2 star value. Felt guilty ignoring his trades to fill same tier trades first until I saw he always had a way to do same tier when nobody picked up the other trades after awhile. *sigh*
 

Draconomicon

Well-Known Member
We have a fairly new member that posts exploit trades and nothing else. As much as I prefer to fill my FS needs first I'd be shorting myself continually helping this guy out. Such as dust for scrolls or steel but at 2 star value. Felt guilty ignoring his trades to fill same tier trades first until I saw he always had a way to do same tier when nobody picked up the other trades after awhile. *sigh*
I can so relate. I used to accept cross-tier trades quite often until my economy was almost ruined and I saw those players still posting cross-tier trades 99% of the time. Now I don't pick up such trades because I don't want to encourage such a habit. None of my business if they do it but I won't be party to it. I do get concerned if it's an FS member who does it habitually and often daily because I believe such a thing can unbalance an FS but I haven't been in an FS long enough to know so I would like to hear other people's opinions on this.
 
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DeletedUser43

Guest
For sure cross tier trades will drain a fellowship of its lower tier goods. It will drain a 2 person economy of the goods, it will drain a 25 person of the goods. It will drain the entire Elvenar economy of lower tier goods. The math demands such an outcome.
 

Draconomicon

Well-Known Member
Thanks, @Bobbykitty. Yours and Soggy's explanations of the bajillion factories and associated buildings required to support such trades made it clear to me but I wanted even more confirmation since an advanced player once told me that she and other advanced players have tons of goods so I found it strange that they often posted cross-tier trades. I also feel that it's unfair to more advanced players that they often have to support new players. It's fine if the players are okay with it but I think it's not made clear to new players that being in a more advanced chapter also means higher costs which leads to possible "abuse" (sorry, can't think of a better word). I realized from some bad experiences that I was actually enabling certain players. From reading the forums, I've come to think that players of all levels face essentially the same issues of space, resources, and time.
 

DeletedUser43

Guest
Some players have tons of goods, others do not. But even if they do have tons of goods, it will still be a drain. The math demands it. I don't mind donating goods to players if they need it, and I always pick up all trades for 100 no matter who it is because I know they are new. I often just explain the math to people and why those trades can't be kept up if they keep putting up cross tier trades. If they keep it up, then I just ignore those trades from them again.
 

DeletedUser2388

Guest
Like Bobbykitty I have taught myself to just ignore this guys' trades because 99% of them are cross tiers. I do have a soft spot (if I part my hair right you can't see it!) for newbs and go out of my way to pick up the 100 steel for 100 marble and the like to help them out and give a hand.
 

torstar

New Member
If you look in the mirror, you'll probably see the culprit. :rolleyes:

If there's a small (i) next to the posted trade, the system is applying a 50% markup because YOU have not yet discovered the poster's city.
The second part of your answer is constructive the first part however, most certainly is not. Lets try and keep the entire message constructive please.
 

Dhurrin

Well-Known Member
@Katwijk
Actually, the one not having discovered is not the culprit here, but the people in the dev team, because they do not want other players to discover each other, because then they go 'too far out'.
So if the devs feel one shouldn't go that far out they also should make sure that not too many of those trades are shown all the time. I have several cities where about the only trades shown are those from players I haven't discovered yet. (Next to nothing active in my discovered area and FS trades don't last long, so my tradescreen actually has 95% trades of people I haven't discovered yet). However, reaching them would mean overscouting, which is discouraged...duh...no matter how you look at it, one always loses out that way.
 

Ashrem

Well-Known Member
@Katwijk
Actually, the one not having discovered is not the culprit here, but the people in the dev team, because they do not want other players to discover each other, because then they go 'too far out'.
There's a difference between "not wanting players to do something" and imposing an in-game penalty for doing so. There are advantages to having a large explored territory (including more KP, more supplies and coin from helping, and more access to trade with other players). Balancing those advantages with disadvantages provides players with agency, allowing us to choose how we want to play without creating a single path to success (which tends to result in everyone doing exactly the same thing and getting bored).

If the devs didn't "want" us to discover the more players than the chapter calls for, we wouldn't be able to. Locking those provinces via code would be trivial, but would deny people choice in how to play the game and narrow the available paths.
 

Dhurrin

Well-Known Member
Balancing those advantages with disadvantages provides players with agency, allowing us to choose how we want to play without creating a single path to success (which tends to result in everyone doing exactly the same thing and getting bored).
Hmmmm...I don't know about you, but more and more people seem to be doing more or less the same because every different path is slowly being closed
 

Ashrem

Well-Known Member
Hmmmm...I don't know about you, but more and more people seem to be doing more or less the same because every different path is slowly being closed
There are still lots of people scouting past their chests and catering, while others are staying "in zone" and fighting successfully. I didn't imply there are an infinite number of choices, only that there is a choice, and a cost to each choice. And only said that in relation to the point that the devs are not stopping us from over-scouting, merely making it expensive to do so regarding the claim that the devs don't "want" us to over-explore.
 
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