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    Your Elvenar Team

Update version 1.104 Discussion

Player9999

Member
The release notes on the new Spire button seem inaccurate. After Spire ended, the button disappeared, rather than show time until the next effort by Inno to pressure more players into depleting resources and buying help before next Tourney.

They also fail to address the fact that Spire code was NEVER ready to release, The appearance of Spire Sunday mornings seems to be the trigger that makes Tourney results disappear; that is, if they ever were posted, which seems variable week to week. That manifests as Tourney tab disappearing from general Rank info, and FS tab displaying a fake "calculating" error message. (Also, a long time ago in a new features video when Mr. Glatt was still PM, didn't Rieke, one of Inno's better artists over the years, do a head shake and remark about Spire buttons not being ready for release even if being pushed ahead anyway?)

One of the top ranked EN servers Arch Mages raised that topic weeks ago on EN forums, and a subsequent Release notes since made some inane lie pretending to address the issue, talking about translation issues, but evading the core problem of fundamentally broken code, and no competent mix of management and programmers to fix it, for a very long time. That parallels how the new FA menus that purported to fix an old issue of false green flags cancellation, actually was yet another exercise in how can we break things worse and claim this is a bug fix?

While officially Inno policy states English is its official language, but many staff seem to struggle as if ESL from Deutsche is closer to their reality, I seriously doubt if Hebrew, Farsi, simplified Chinese, or Arabic would display and function properly, if neither English or German do. I get the impression that Glassdoor and similar present and ex-staff reviews of some horrible managers mixed with a few very good ones, and turnover due to low pay and no career path for most at Inno, plus "free beer" not doing so well compensating for that, may reflect some core reasons Inno would garner more player respect if it tried being more honest as to how and why UI/UX, coding, and event plans, often get scrambled or never well specified, designed, or coded and if needed fixed. There's also an issue of how the Support system gives the impression one will see a known bugs and status list as responsible companies publish, rather than a dark hole over long term issues Inno blows off for years.

Those seem to be such deep rooted issues, that combined with liars and sociopaths as so-called support (some of whose departures players might celebrate rather than regret), many of the more intelligent players seem to either rarely bother trying to discuss such issues, or just leave the game. That also includes event designs that appear like short term tricks to drive diamonds sales, but in form akin to kicking dogs, and if the victims aren't overly masochistic, eventually result instead in their running off, or biting back. As anything with t*t*s that looks presentable gets wheeled out for trade journals, talking about Inno's grand success in passing a billion Euros long term cash flow, and rigged surveys that don't ask needed questions, but appear rigged to peddle KPI claims to MTG auditors, are sometimes sent out to players.

There's also the problem of UI/UX when colors in FA Orange/Yellow and similar all over are so confusing and hard to resolve, that Inno staff would be fired as unpaid volunteers at Wikipedia (which takes accessibility seriously), and ever tinier icons (eg, for troops, or Ch-15 goods completions) cause physiological eye stress that does long term medical damage to players, even if just out of school workers are less aware of how they're hurting themselves, than say an older engineer like me, whose doctor father advocated there should be better ways to sue and shut down employers, vendors, and IT systems, schools included, that don't do basic design to minimize long term damage to vision and wrists, etc. If something about mobile releases pushes such abuses, maybe not all software is ready to exist in mobile form, regardless of market pressures?

Simple KPI: I have most recent nights 83 Coin Mines on my World Map, up from around 10 typically for quite some time before the latest collapses.

I know of no pretty shade of lipstick that could be painted on that pig, for presentation to MTG overlords.

Is it possible to trigger a key management upheaval and housekeeping, that's likely a necessary precursor to seriously addressing that mess?

The latest misleading if not just wrong minor release note detail appears to be but a small piece of that larger mess, of four disjointed code sets (Flash, HTML5, iOS, 'Droid), that even good coders can't manage well if the learning curve is slower than staff turnover, or management buys more sand deliveries in which to bury heads, rather than be brutally honest about difficult challenges both internally, and with players whose lives Inno could do far better respecting, by honest disclosures, and not trying to use cheap kicked dog tricks that ultimately backfire.

Or is taking the corporate ethics posters in Inno's lobby, or on MTG's subsidiary practices statements, seriously, too much to hope for or expect?

Is the sluggish response to page loads and thousands of mouse clicks since the move from Volico-Miami to Raxx/Artfiles - Hamburg for US Worlds, that cannot be explained by latency increase from 40 to 80 or so mS but rather must be cutrate servers or bad Hadoop management and load balancing, intended to make the game less playable, inhibit neighbor city visits, and drive away players so that Inno can try some new project as part of a downhill spiral for Elvenar?
 

qaccy

Well-Known Member
The release notes on the new Spire button seem inaccurate. After Spire ended, the button disappeared, rather than show time until the next effort by Inno to pressure more players into depleting resources and buying help before next Tourney.

They also fail to address the fact that Spire code was NEVER ready to release, The appearance of Spire Sunday mornings seems to be the trigger that makes Tourney results disappear; that is, if they ever were posted, which seems variable week to week. That manifests as Tourney tab disappearing from general Rank info, and FS tab displaying a fake "calculating" error message. (Also, a long time ago in a new features video when Mr. Glatt was still PM, didn't Rieke, one of Inno's better artists over the years, do a head shake and remark about Spire buttons not being ready for release even if being pushed ahead anyway?)

One of the top ranked EN servers Arch Mages raised that topic weeks ago on EN forums, and a subsequent Release notes since made some inane lie pretending to address the issue, talking about translation issues, but evading the core problem of fundamentally broken code, and no competent mix of management and programmers to fix it, for a very long time. That parallels how the new FA menus that purported to fix an old issue of false green flags cancellation, actually was yet another exercise in how can we break things worse and claim this is a bug fix?

While officially Inno policy states English is its official language, but many staff seem to struggle as if ESL from Deutsche is closer to their reality, I seriously doubt if Hebrew, Farsi, simplified Chinese, or Arabic would display and function properly, if neither English or German do. I get the impression that Glassdoor and similar present and ex-staff reviews of some horrible managers mixed with a few very good ones, and turnover due to low pay and no career path for most at Inno, plus "free beer" not doing so well compensating for that, may reflect some core reasons Inno would garner more player respect if it tried being more honest as to how and why UI/UX, coding, and event plans, often get scrambled or never well specified, designed, or coded and if needed fixed. There's also an issue of how the Support system gives the impression one will see a known bugs and status list as responsible companies publish, rather than a dark hole over long term issues Inno blows off for years.

Those seem to be such deep rooted issues, that combined with liars and sociopaths as so-called support (some of whose departures players might celebrate rather than regret), many of the more intelligent players seem to either rarely bother trying to discuss such issues, or just leave the game. That also includes event designs that appear like short term tricks to drive diamonds sales, but in form akin to kicking dogs, and if the victims aren't overly masochistic, eventually result instead in their running off, or biting back. As anything with t*t*s that looks presentable gets wheeled out for trade journals, talking about Inno's grand success in passing a billion Euros long term cash flow, and rigged surveys that don't ask needed questions, but appear rigged to peddle KPI claims to MTG auditors, are sometimes sent out to players.

There's also the problem of UI/UX when colors in FA Orange/Yellow and similar all over are so confusing and hard to resolve, that Inno staff would be fired as unpaid volunteers at Wikipedia (which takes accessibility seriously), and ever tinier icons (eg, for troops, or Ch-15 goods completions) cause physiological eye stress that does long term medical damage to players, even if just out of school workers are less aware of how they're hurting themselves, than say an older engineer like me, whose doctor father advocated there should be better ways to sue and shut down employers, vendors, and IT systems, schools included, that don't do basic design to minimize long term damage to vision and wrists, etc. If something about mobile releases pushes such abuses, maybe not all software is ready to exist in mobile form, regardless of market pressures?

Simple KPI: I have most recent nights 83 Coin Mines on my World Map, up from around 10 typically for quite some time before the latest collapses.

I know of no pretty shade of lipstick that could be painted on that pig, for presentation to MTG overlords.

Is it possible to trigger a key management upheaval and housekeeping, that's likely a necessary precursor to seriously addressing that mess?

The latest misleading if not just wrong minor release note detail appears to be but a small piece of that larger mess, of four disjointed code sets (Flash, HTML5, iOS, 'Droid), that even good coders can't manage well if the learning curve is slower than staff turnover, or management buys more sand deliveries in which to bury heads, rather than be brutally honest about difficult challenges both internally, and with players whose lives Inno could do far better respecting, by honest disclosures, and not trying to use cheap kicked dog tricks that ultimately backfire.

Or is taking the corporate ethics posters in Inno's lobby, or on MTG's subsidiary practices statements, seriously, too much to hope for or expect?

Is the sluggish response to page loads and thousands of mouse clicks since the move from Volico-Miami to Raxx/Artfiles - Hamburg for US Worlds, that cannot be explained by latency increase from 40 to 80 or so mS but rather must be cutrate servers or bad Hadoop management and load balancing, intended to make the game less playable, inhibit neighbor city visits, and drive away players so that Inno can try some new project as part of a downhill spiral for Elvenar?

You typed all of this up...because you're mad about the Spire button?
 

Player9999

Member
You typed all of this up...because you're mad about the Spire button?

No, that was just (plus making a chunk of time) a cue to call out some larger and more complex sets of issues.

I'm not mad about the Spire recklessness, but some of the consumer fraud and abuse of players I find pretty obnoxious. The mix of wrong descriptions and/or coding to some lack of clear spec if release notes weren't wrong, reflects some serious issues of functional literacy or management systems breakdown. Issues like Mobile having different button labels than desktop for the same functions, and years of lack of promised parity, or ability to recklessly release FA flags without the intercept warnings desktop users see, or the pathetic messaging and chat systems re: events requiring serious info sharing, are far worse problems.

At least someone at Inno managed to get them to join HackerOne, where the $50,000+ they've paid in bug bounties likely gained them $250,000 of free engineering testing, not done adequately in house. But, they've driven away many players who had been solid Beta testers, and used practices where others who've done that over the years wouldn't for a company that ignores fixing issues or shutting down defective code pushes, absent market rate consulting fees plus a veto process.

I'm hoping Inno's at least concerned enough to take constructive criticism and have some awkward management and staff meetings. Companies like Amazon, Facebook, IAC/I, and way too many financial, telecom, and securities industries, have fundamentally criminal practices and intent over so much of their histories and practices, I'm among those who've had discussions with prosecutors looking for ways that are realistic to hurt them badly, when fines as high as $5 billion amount to mere parking tickets for them. I suspect there may be some serious issues in the split of old MTG to new MTG and NENT, but the entire Nordic NASDAQ is trivial compared to some major corporate thugs too few people recognize or treat as such.
 

Risen Malchiah

Well-Known Member
First, I like the new buttons, especially the one for crafting but more for the feedback it gives when crafting is idle or complete. If the Spire button also gave more information, it would be more useful, namely if a gate countdown is complete or if the Spire is completed for your city.

Second, I like that new Avatars have been added. More Avatars would be awesome. It's tough when everyone seems to like and use the same ones. :)

As for @fckm, I truly find the majority of what you said to be great and you seem pretty knowledgeable about key aspects of the game, the UI, the various bugs, etc. However, while I have respect for the *content* of what you said, the delivery somehow oozed with so much venom that it was hard to focus on the relevant details of your criticisms, as valid as many of them are. Also, many of the details you provide may not be common knowledge (or they are at least new to me) so I don't get all the things you're referencing.

In particular, I'm not sure what you mean in these instances:
I get the impression that Glassdoor and similar present and ex-staff reviews of some horrible managers mixed with a few very good ones
since the move from Volico-Miami to Raxx/Artfiles - Hamburg for US Worlds, that cannot be explained by latency increase from 40 to 80 or so mS but rather must be cutrate servers or bad Hadoop management and load balancing
ability to recklessly release FA flags without the intercept warnings desktop users see
At least someone at Inno managed to get them to join HackerOne, where the $50,000+ they've paid in bug bounties likely gained them $250,000 of free engineering testing
 

mucksterme

Oh Wise One
while I have respect for the *content* of what you said, the delivery somehow oozed with so much venom that it was hard to focus on the relevant details of your criticisms, as valid as many of them are. Also, many of the details you provide may not be common knowledge

you really put your finger on what was bothering me
although i was just feeling it and hadn't quite totally grasped it yet
thx
 

Enevhar Aldarion

Oh Wise One
@Nightguest The Spire button at the bottom of the screen that was added to the toolbar is being glitchy. It keeps alternating on being there and not being there. I log into the game and it is there. I log out and come back to the game later and it is gone again. Come back later and it is there again. Then gone again next log in. Etc.
 

Yogi Dave

Well-Known Member
@fckm How about sticking to the topic? It's about the update to the game. I mean, what does Amazon, Facebook, etc. using criminal practices or that you are talking to prosecutors about that since a $5 billion fine means nothing. It begins to read like a manifesto, not about 2 buttons and a few avatars added. If you want to talk about whatever that was, you can open a discussion thread of your own.
 

Yogi Dave

Well-Known Member
I like the new buttons.

Spire Button: It's nice to not have to pull my city over to the spire then back to the guest race buildings. I do agree that instead of disappearing when the spire does (although that does have a symmetry), it'd be nice for it to be a countdown of it's next appearance.

Crafting Button: Very nice and quicker than the 'backdoor' method used to not collect enchantments. I like it has three states too: Nothing cooking, Crafting, and Crafting done, but not collected. The only problem with the done but not collected is it doesn't change when the crafting is done. You either have to log in when it has finished or look in the dialog, in which case you know it's done. It really be nice if it was like buildings that show a bouncing icon over them when they are done.

I can understand people liking new avatars. Personally, I use a new one when I enter the chapter or place a new AW for a while. Then I switch back to my fav, the owl.
 

LisaMV

Well-Known Member
Hey folks!

You know the drill, please use this thread to discuss anything related to the upcoming 1.104 update.

As always, I look forward to learning what you think.
LOVE the new spire & crafting buttons! thank you for those. However, there is a very trouble-causing bug in the crafting button. The fact that it does not show you when the craft is finished (unless you reload or log in) has made me lose goods boost increases because I collect first, and has also made me lose a spot when the new recipes come it. Having no button is preferable to having one that effectively misinforms.

Are you guys aware of this, and working on it?

thanks
 

Dopeykr

Well-Known Member
I don't know about browser, but on mobile the Spire button shows gray when it's not active & a timer showing when it next becomes active. The Crafting button shows a x in it when you have nothing being crafted. When finished it shows a green check mark in it. The only thing missing is a timer showing how much time is left until finished.
 

Enevhar Aldarion

Oh Wise One
That is also true on the browser. It wasn't there last week, so must have been in the 1.105 update Thursday.

No, it was added when they said it would be, but it kept disappearing, or more accurately alternating, with my log ins. One time it would be there in between Spire spawns and the next time it would not be there at all. And then it would be back again the next time I logged in. I will have to watch for it again this weekend to see if that issue has been fixed yet.
 
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