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    Your Elvenar Team

Veterans are leaving the game, why??

Dew Spinner

Well-Known Member
You make a statement that lacks proof, you can know what causes a player to quit and maybe some players that you have good contact with but you can't know why many players quit out of the entire player base.

Just like when you are told never will something happen when it is possible that it could happen just very unlikely. I see these statements and stop reading.
The consensus on the US Forum and Beta Forum, from from High Chapter players, has been that they are quitting because INNO killed their game after they worked hard and/or spent a lot of money. I understand that is a small part of the overall player base but a safe bet that it is fairly representative, as I stated before there were 266+ pages of severe complaints fron High Chapter players about the Tournament/Spire penalty formula change.
 
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ajqtrz

Chef
Boredom. That's the enemy here. If you keep the game the same players reach optimum performance and the game is no longer challenging. Some players get comfortable with having mastered the game and are proud of their accomplishment and others are always seeking new challenges. So the devs have to consider if the ones who have mastered the game contribute to the bottom line more than the ones who are always looking for a new challenge. I suspect the "new challenge" crowd spends a lot more than the "I've mastered it all" crowd and thus, the latter is somewhat sacrificed for the former. Just a guess, of course.

As I've said before, each chapter has an attrition level and the higher you go the fewer stick around to play that chapter. Eventually there will not be enough players to justify more chapters. I think that's in the next 5-7, probably around chapter 20-22 in my opinion. Just another guess.

And finally, perhaps it would not be a bad thing for players at the top to leave if Inno would then remove them from the system. The ranking system is not as useful if a lot of inactive (but still in fs's) are still listed. Removing them would make all those below move up in ranking and moving up in ranking is, I think, encouraging even if one isn't too enamored with a high rank. Moving up indicates progress, that that is probably helpful for player retention (and spending).

AJ
 

Elivarian

Member
The game difficulty is progressive so yes each chapter forward increases expense. The game would be super lame if it cost the same to top the spire in chapter 6 as it does in chapter 3.

Basic progress outstrips cost increases through chapter 15. Cost increases outstrip basic progress after chapter 15 but only under specific conditions.

If you can not top the spire in chapter 6 that is a city build or playstyle issue not a formula issue.
Well if you think it's okay that they changed the game mechanics so that we in Spire and Tournament now are penalized for doing research, and a sudden extra jump in troops or goods to do the same we did before; Then so it is.
 

Iyapo1

Well-Known Member
if you think it's okay that they changed the game mechanics so that we in Spire and Tournament now are penalized for doing research, and a sudden extra jump in troops or goods to do the same we did before; Then so it is.
How would you suggest they make the difficulty progressive?
If they jump the expense at the beginning of the chapter enough to cover all the research in the chapter then the cost at the beginning of each chapter would be murder! So they spread it out and as you progress you get little increases.
 

SoggyShorts

Well-Known Member
How would you suggest they make the difficulty progressive?
If they jump the expense at the beginning of the chapter enough to cover all the research in the chapter then the cost at the beginning of each chapter would be murder! So they spread it out and as you progress you get little increases.
I have to disagree here, that's exactly how I think they should do it.

If the cost to do the spire went up by 30% at the chapter start and your production went up by 36% spread throughout the chapter:
  • 3x merc upgrades each a 12% increase over chapter start
  • 3x training upgrades each a 12% increase over chapter start
  • 3x barracks upgrades each a 12% increase over chapter start
then yeah the start would be rough, but you could cover that by either saving up first or while you wait to unlock/place settlement buildings you could fill your city with extra troop/goods buildings.

By the end of the chapter, costs would be up to 130% and troop production up to 136% upgrades over chapter start
A small reward for progress, and a challenging journey to get there but a desirable one.
 
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Deborah M

Well-Known Member
There was a time when land space was getting to capacity for the game and to solve that problem INNO introduced AWs to make a player be able to pack more power into less space and be able to have a smaller city layouts because they were at their limits of how many expansions they could add to the game.

This is completely not true. There were plenty of premium expansions and a whole lot of the grid (not map) left to grow into when AWs were introduced.

It is true that for years Inno worked hard on encouraging players to place and upgrade AWs. I enjoyed keeping my goal to have all AWs for years. My play style has a bunch of aspects geared toward upgrading AWs. Things like daily map visits to buy KP daily, saving event currency for AW instant days, pushing higher in the tournament solely for the purpose of gaining more KP, keeping scouting going at all times for even that small amount of KP to name a few. Then is the matter of space. There is NEVER enough space in any city builder game. Those of us who could instantly purchased premium expansions when they were released. Partly, that was so we had room for all those AW.

This is the progression I saw as I watched top players I have known over the years leave the game.
1. The Spire was introduced. Those who were tournament beasts now had to adjust to another drain in troops. There were a lot who pushed hard to upgrade battle related AW, like me, although I was never a tournament beast.
2. Some of us decided to cater the Spire to save on troops but that takes more space for factories to add needed production.
3. Then they decided, after all those years of playing the game the way Inno very clearly stated and encouraged, to turn much of what we had built against us with the big difficulty calculation changes.
4. Now a whole lot of investment in time, effort and $$ became liabilities instead of the advantages we had worked for and spent real $$ to gain.
5. Besides this causing a whole lot of ill will toward the game, now completing the Spire to the top and making a respectable showing for a top level player became a job instead of a game. In my own case, it meant that the work I had done since the Spire was introduced to level up my battle related AWs so that I could climb the Spire and up my tournament scores was not only wiped out but also counted against me. So, I just gave up and do what I am comfortable with given my reduced abilities.
6. It became very clear that to even keep our cities performing at the level we were used to we would have to spend even more real $$. That was the straw that broke the camel's back. I am talking about top players who were, and had been for a long time, big spenders.
7. In the end, we are/were working what felt like a job but we were paying Inno more to do that job. So, I watched top players I had played this game with for years leave the game. It really has been a sad turn of events.
 
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Dew Spinner

Well-Known Member
This is completely not true. There were plenty of premium expansions and a whole lot of the map left to grow into when AWs were introduced.

It is true that for years Inno worked hard on encouraging players to place and upgrade AWs. I enjoyed keeping my goal to have all AWs for years. My play style has a bunch of aspects geared toward upgrading AWs. Things like daily map visits to buy KP daily, saving event currency for AW instant days, pushing higher in the tournament solely for the purpose of gaining more KP, keeping scouting going at all times for even that small amount of KP to name a few. Then is the matter of space. There is NEVER enough space in any city builder game. Those of us who could instantly purchased premium expansions when they were released. Partly, that was so we had room for all those AW.

This is the progression I saw as I watched top players I have known over the years leave the game.
1. The Spire was introduced. Those who were tournament beasts now had to adjust to another drain in troops. There were a lot who pushed hard to upgrade battle related AW, like me, although I was never a tournament beast.
2. Some of us decided to cater the Spire to save on troops but that takes more space for factories to add needed production.
3. Then they decided, after all those years of playing the game the way Inno very clearly stated and encouraged, to turn much of what we had built against us with the big difficulty calculation changes.
4. Now a whole lot of investment in time, effort and $$ became liabilities instead of the advantages we had worked for and spent real $$ to gain.
5. Besides this causing a whole lot of ill will toward the game, now completing the Spire to the top and making a respectable showing for a top level player became a job instead of a game. In my own case, it meant that the work I had done since the Spire was introduced to level up my battle related AWs so that I could climb the Spire and up my tournament scores was not only wiped out but also counted against me. So, I just gave up and do what I am comfortable with given my reduced abilities.
6. It became very clear that to even keep our cities performing at the level we were used to we would have to spend even more real $$. That was the straw that broke the camel's back. I am talking about top players who were, and had been for a long time, big spenders.
7. In the end, we are/were working what felt like a job but we were paying Inno more to do that job. So, I watched top players I had played this game with for years leave the game. It really has been a sad turn of events.
I have read repeatedly that introducing the AWs was to allow for smaller more poweful cities because the grid is only so big.
 

Deborah M

Well-Known Member
I have read repeatedly that introducing the AWs was to allow for smaller more poweful cities because the grid is only so big.

That's fine but it still isn't true. I was here and I clearly remember needing to make room for AWs that aren't all that until you can get them leveled up. Darn! I bet I bought another couple of premium expansions or bought magic residences & workshops to use less space. ;) I know for a fact it was a few years after the introduction of AWs before they had to expand the grid.

Anyway, this does not have much to do with the OP so not debating any further.
 
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Dew Spinner

Well-Known Member
That's fine but it still isn't true. I was here and I clearly remember needing to make room for AWs that aren't all that until you can get them leveled up. Darn! I bet I bought another couple of premium expansions or bought magic residences & workshops to use less space. ;) It was a few years after the introduction of AWs before they had to expand the grid.
It was, as ususal, geared for players just starting the game not the older players that had already put out all available expansions. I believe that I watched a vid of the Devs talking about it but I don't remember where I found the link to it.
 

Deborah M

Well-Known Member
It was, as ususal, geared for players just starting the game not the older players that had already put out all available expansions. I believe that I watched a vid of the Devs talking about it but I don't remember where I found the link to it.

Again, not true. Back then the Devs, mostly Timon in the videos who did play his own game, actually worked hard to encourage growth and player retention. It seems to me that ignoring longer-term players and making things so much easier for lower chapter players came in large part after Timon moved to another game. Frankly, the first AWs came out pretty early in the game so your assertations are just not making sense. If we had not spent years starting early in the game building and leveling up all of our AWs then it would not have been such a stab in the back when they turned that against us.
 

Shakal5000

New Member
Just like when you are told never will something happen when it is possible that it could happen just very unlikely. I see these statements and stop reading.

And that's okay, it's your choice to read or not, I'm bringing this statement representing more or less 7 full fellowships, the strongest ones in the servers, and the voice, the critics, the ideas are very much similar...
 

mikeledo

Well-Known Member
Most of the vets leaving the game realize it is a time suck and are doing so for RL. Before the FA, time was not an issue and then they added the spire. Most vets played multiple cities in various worlds and no longer had time to play them all. Some abandoned cities and played just 3 or less, others just quit and got a job. Some folks came back to the game because they now work from home.
 

ajqtrz

Chef
Now that is a statement that has proof behind it, and I can agree to its validity.

Proof is either mathematical or psychological. If you have mathematical proof I would suggest you had to have done a survey of "high chapter" players in the two forums mentioned. Can you supply the data and quantify what constitutes "consensus?" (Statistically speaking "consensus" might mean a whole range of possible mathematical definitions.) In any case, I didn't get a chance to take the survey and if you are taking one about players quitting, how many of those taking the survey have actually quit? All of this means is that the representative sample is probably insufficient to declare a consensus has been proved.

On the other hand, if it's your sense that consensus has been reached and that the consensus reached in the two forums by high chapter players is valid, then I'll just have to trust your judgement on the matter. Which may not really mean "proof," right?

On the other hand, the game belongs to Inno and they will, no doubt, do what benefits Inno, which means more revenue. If that occurs the game, to Inno, is not "broken."

Just some thoughts.

AJ
 

ed1960

Well-Known Member
And that's okay, it's your choice to read or not, I'm bringing this statement representing more or less 7 full fellowships, the strongest ones in the servers, and the voice, the critics, the ideas are very much similar...
So now you are the Voice of 174 other players? yup right
 

Lelanya

Well-Known Member
Right.
iirc Wonders were added to the game just before chapter 8 was added and around the same time as events were introduced. They couldn't be "geared towards newer players" since there wasn't really any such thing as "older players" yet.
Yes, that sounds right to me. I was in chapter 3 in KEEN on EN2 and in chapter 4 in Darkest Depth on EN1 when Wonders were introduced in the summer of 2016. We won the original Venar's Rocks in the big August event; I think it was the third event of this type. Aww. I collected a whole slew of different colored Codexes as a tribute to my map brothers (love ya, Tom & Blackcat x).

We didn't even know what the Wonders did, but they granted cool new avatars so hey, why not build one. *sigh* good times, all swept away by a reckless redesign.
 
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