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    Your Elvenar Team

Welcome to the Battle Help Forum

ajqtrz

Chef - loquacious Old Dog
I believe they move from the outside in. So it's 5,4,3,2,1 position on the screen, not in the slots. It starts, I think, with the lowest on the screen, then the top one, then the next to the lowest, then the next to to the top one, then the middle one.

That's my understanding/experience anyway.

AJ
 

MichaelMichael

Day and Night Trader
I am a Human and was (for chapters 1-14) using a Barracks exclusively with 6 Armories. Then the rules changed and I quickly (a few weeks) built both a training grounds and a Merc Camp to the level where I ran out of Orcs and switched to adding Workshops to feed all these troop producers. I am currently building Priests (as they dominate as a Human and really kick but when you add a few Mage Multipliers). On the steel level, with a few of those and an Dwarven Armorer or two, the Mages were often killing everything without a loss. Of course the latest changes in the tourney will change things to some extent.

Now I have two more troop producers. So far I have stuck with Cerebruses and Frogs as the light melee and heavy ranged units from the human training center really suck wind and the last couple levels called for the Frogs in particular. What else is worth building? and are my initial choices sub optimal? The Human Heavy Melee and Light Ranged Units are good, but perhaps there is better? Any recommendations out there? I am just beginning chapter 16, so I pretty much have the best of every unit and a lot of the AWs producing and improving my fighting ability. But which units should I be building from my brandy new buildings?

I did notice that combinations of Frogs and Priests (with helpful buildings) were often powerful. Two long range range strikers together make for quick work of weaker melee unit stacks.
 

MichaelMichael

Day and Night Trader
I believe they move from the outside in. So it's 5,4,3,2,1 position on the screen, not in the slots. It starts, I think, with the lowest on the screen, then the top one, then the next to the lowest, then the next to to the top one, then the middle one.

That's my understanding/experience anyway.

AJ
I think it is the exact opposite - the center out so from top to bottom 4th,2nd,1st, 3rd and your last choice (5th) at the bottom. Based on that, I usually put light Melee units in the first few slots to screen my range strikers when Light Melee is appropriate.
 

MichaelMichael

Day and Night Trader
Just an FYI for those frustrated with battle. I never used troops for a long time, Then out of the blue they got better. I think it take a while for exploration and upgrades and AWs to make a difference. I also use the fine building you can get from crafting. Without them, the later go rounds in the tourney are impossible to win. The spire is a different animal, after he first few, fighting is useless or has been up to this point. So I use goods only on the upper levels of the spires (unless I have building active) and then fight almost (but not quite) exclusively in the tourney.
 

MichaelMichael

Day and Night Trader
Just an FYI for those frustrated with battle. I never used troops for a long time, Then out of the blue they got better, perhaps around chapter 8 when you are required to build a few more armories and AWs. I think it takes a while for exploration and upgrades and AWs to make a difference. I also use the fine buildings you can get from crafting. Without them, the later go rounds in the tourney are impossible to win. The spire is a different animal, after he first few, fighting is useless or has been up to this point. So I use goods only on the upper levels of the spires (unless I have good crafting building active) and then fight almost (but not quite) exclusively in the tourney.
 
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BrinDarby

Well-Known Member
@ajqtrz ,
What Im saying is I pick my troops 1,2,3,4,5 , and ok they are placed 4,2,1,3,5 as you say .....
given same type troop, why don't they move and fight 1,2,3,4,5 .....

I understand they are ""placed"" outta order, but then why don't they move/attack in that order ???
Constantly there is a terrain feature directly in front of 2 & 3 , so when 4 & 5 move 1st, what it
creates is 1 wasted round waiting to use 2 & 3, before 4 & 5 can move and follow them next round.
I understand different types move 1st, but if they are all same type , why does this occur ?????
BrinD
 

ajqtrz

Chef - loquacious Old Dog
In fighting they have to have some order of attack. The system could adjust that order based upon terrain and a bunch of other factors, but that would take a much more sophisticated AI, and Inno, apparently, doesn't want that. So, from the beginning of time...or at least some point in time, they programed the order of attack. Personally, I'd love it if they allowed us to pick our order and to place our troops in the two back rows wherever we wished. But they don't so that is, as they say, that.

Perhaps you could create a discussion of some better way? Maybe, as I've said, let us place our troops directly on the map and then pick our own order of attack? (Autofight would have a set order of course).

@MichaelMichael My post was on the order of attack, not placement of troops on the map. The placement of the troops is, as you say, opposite. You are right the first troop in slot 1 is placed in the center back location of the battle map. Then the slot is placed above it, then the third slot below it. The fourth slot goes to the top most location and the last to the lowest. Then, when the battle starts the attack order is reversed, bottom, top, next bottom, next top, center, as you noted.

Hope that clarifies things.

AJ
 
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Faeofthesea

Member
When I started playing I heard that if you do not research the optional squad size updates it makes the tournament battles "easier".
The other side is that it was said to make the battles on the world map more difficult. So I have never researched those optional items.
Now I have heard that the new tournament changes have taken this into account and it is no longer the case.
I am thinking it might be time to go back and research those items, but once it is done it cannot be undone.
Does anyone have any information on these researches?


Edit: I did just find some discussion on this matter in the Tournament Change Forum. Thanks
 
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MichaelMichael

Day and Night Trader
I am an advanced player in Chapter 19. There are three types of battles:

1. Provence battle - they tend to be trivial - I always win often with few losses.
2. Tourney Battles
2a. the first 8 are easy, on the first go round, I do not need any help
2b. the next 8 (9-16) are medium - I need some help usually 3 combat buildings and Pet food for a stage 10 Fire Phoenix
2c. The next 8 (17-24) are mix of combat and catering. Your best troops will win but other you need to cater. Losses can be large.
2d. Above 24, are usually not worth fighting, catering is the only option unless it is a perfect fit for battle
3. Spire Battles
3a. Tier 1. Every player should complete this level. difficulty is similar to 2a, but with my normal of 3 buildings and fire phoenix, losses are low
3b Tier 2. typically the fights are winnable with an occasional misfire that needs catering. If you must cater the last item - figure on using 25 diamonds. If I am short on troops, I save them for the last contest and cater earlier contests.
3c. Tier 3. mostly wins by fighting, very rarely do I need to cater, but whenever you cater on the last level, figure you will use 25-50 diamonds

That said, fighting has gotten more difficult. To compete, you need a lot of items via crafting and the spire - 3 Pet food a week and 3 combat building a week. Lately, it looks like 4 combat building might be needed. So what does this mean? Crafting is the key to success in battles at my level. Lots of CCs are required as well as time instants for troops. I do 30 provinces a week in the tourney but in chapters 8, I was doing 6-8. Most were via catering. Basically, until you can be effective crafting and getting a high level Fire Phoenix and Brown bear - fighting is really hard. My experience was that I was far better off catering in the earlier levels. My experience early on was that getting enough troops was hard and they always lost until you built the right AWs.

So what am I saying? If you are fighting without help, it is no surprise that you lose. The game is based on advancing, advancing your AWs, advancing your regular buildings, using expiring building effectively, evolving the most important two buildings in the game (Fire Phoenix and Brown Bear). And of course, choosing the right troops in each battle. Elvenar is a slow game and not easy. Being space efficient is not easy. Throwing away old less efficient buildings is not easily done by many. I play to advance as rapidly as possible, that is my sole objective. I play daily so what works for me will not work for others. But this is a good game and I don't actually see the combat system as broken. I see everything in Elvenar as hard and mostly hard to balance all the competing objectives. One of those is balancing catering with fighting. If you are doing just one after about chapter 10, I suspect you are not optimizing correctly.

I will add that I am human and found some troops are far better than others. The right troop type reaches three types rather than just 2 - Priests are the best type for humans by far and can kill a few light melee units. Rangers are more effective against Heavy Melee units than priest and have greater success against heavy range strikers than other light range strikers. Frogs are the best heavy range strikers but still are not very good. Paladins are marginally the best heavy melee units. Cerebrus are the best of the light melee units but expect heavy losses. My experience is that fights requiring mostly Mages and Light Range Unit are easier. Levels requiring mostly Light Melee and Heavy Range units are the most difficult. Most of the time, I use 3 of the best type that is effective against 4 units and 2 that get effective on 3 units - this is especially true if a pair of units is the same type as the unit with advantage of 4 units. Of course, if one unit type is effective against all 5, I take that. The only exception is Mage units. If I have 3 heavy Melee and 2 light melee, with combat building - it is a perfect situation where boosted mages often win with ZERO losses.
 

Henroo

Oh Wise One
I am an advanced player in Chapter 19. There are three types of battles:

I will add that I am human and found some troops are far better than others. Frogs are the best heavy range strikers but still are not very good. Paladins are marginally the best heavy melee units.
I have heavily edited your comment to these 2 points.

1. Frogs are NOT the best heavy ranged unit in the game. Orc Strats are. Most advanced players use more Frogs than Orc Strats because it is easier to train Frogs. But despite all the love Frogs get in this forum, Orc Strats seem to perform better in most fights. At least for me, who autofights almost everything. And keep in mind I am still in chapter 16. And I still think Orc Strats are better than Frogs for me, right now. You are ch 19, so you have a 4 star promotion for your Orc Strats which I do not yet have. So for you, Orc Strats should be even better!
2. Vallorian Veterans ARE better than 3 star Paladins. However the difference is rather marginal. And heavy melee is not that important a troop type. Because of this, in my human cities I rarely train Vallorian Veterans and do settle for Paladins. Because I'd rather have my mercenary camp making Rangers or Frogs instead of VVs.
 

MichaelMichael

Day and Night Trader
Orc Strats seem to perform better in most fights. At least for me, who autofights almost everything.

I cannot disagree with you, however, I have basically unlimited supplies and am currently using every orc I can get. Chapter 19 takes turns between Mana, Orcs and Urunium being rate limiting. That said, I never really produced many Orc Strategist. I have had from 5 to 8 fully upgraded Barracks for most of the recent chapters. I usually have 5 during the most space intensive portion of chapters (which makes sure I can use 8 hr time instants) and 7 or 8 between chapters.

I think you are right. However until there are Orc Instants in Elvenar, I am probably stuck with Frogs. That said, if the fight requires Heavy Melee, Heavy Ranges or Light Melee; I am very likely to consider catering if it is anything other than a slam dunk.
 
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