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    Your Elvenar Team

while watching the paint dry

BrinDarby

Well-Known Member
In the Beginning, there was AOL .... and thus AIM.
Soon after we got Yahoo, if your "watch the paint dry"
game didn't offer ingame chat, you were still OK.

So, in 2023, other than social media (FB,IG,TW,WA)
are there any good choices for a simple chat client ??

I know Inno would say, linking 1000's of players for
a gameworld wide chat, rather than FS only, is a no-go,
but usually there's no more than 20-25 ppl on the forum
at any 1 point in time. So why not a simple chatbox here ??

Take for example Twitch, every room ya go to, there's chat.
Every other MMORPH game Ive played had ingame chat.
It promotes a much richer community experience. Its kinda
wierd to me Elvenar doesn't, since its an easy addition to
include a global chat, to the FS chatbox.

So where/how is everyone chatting ??
 

SoggyShorts

Mathematician par Excellence
There was a slack channel that was successful for a minute, but other than the Russian channel it fizzled pretty quickly.
Having chat built into the forums could work but I don't think the active population is high enough to warrant it, it would just be the same dozen users chatting at each other rather than derailing threads making the forums arguably even less interesting...
I know Inno would say, linking 1000's of players for
a gameworld wide chat, rather than FS only, is a no-go
1,000s of simultaneous users per world sounds like a stretch to me when only 100 players have a tournament score over 0 (yes I know not everyone does the tournament, but it's an indicator)
 

muffy.

Chef - Scroll-Keeper - Chandelier Swinger - EAA
Use Discoid …
What was that one chat back in the 90s that said … ah oh or sounded that way when a message came through
 

muffy.

Chef - Scroll-Keeper - Chandelier Swinger - EAA
I dunno what it is lol but I chat on it with everyone. Except for right now cuz I clicked something and deleted my server and now I’m out in La la land trying to figure out just what the heck I’m doin LOL
 

crackie

Chef, Scroll-Keeper, Buddy's #1 Fan
Use Discoid …
What was that one chat back in the 90s that said … ah oh or sounded that way when a message came through
ICQ? I can’t believe people left ICQ for AIM.

Muffy Discord is a service not a standalone
platform, as I understand it ......
It is bit of both? You can use discord without joining any servers and just DM with people directly. I feel like discord and slack are trying to be more user friendly versions of IRC.

It promotes a much richer community experience. Its kinda
wierd to me Elvenar doesn't, since its an easy addition to
include a global chat, to the FS chatbox.
FoE has a global chat thing, if I recall (don’t play it anymore). It was not very active and I wondered the opposite, why it’s even there at all? I think there is an unofficial Elvenar discord channel. I peeked in and thought…nope! No thanks. I don’t think it was very active either.
 

SoggyShorts

Mathematician par Excellence
Muffy Discord is a service not a standalone
platform, as I understand it ......
I'm not sure what you mean by those terms.
  • Discord as I would define it is a standalone software for communication (voice/video/text) with thousands of existing public and private "chat rooms" called servers.
  • Creating your own server (chat room) takes 5 seconds and you can either invite people or make it public.
  • Discord does everything AIM and ICQ could do and more, and it's free.
If that's not what you're looking for in a 3rd part app then I dunno what you're after.
As I see it the choices are discord or something integrated like the existing FS chat going global, or an upgrade to these forums (which almost no one uses)
 

free-spirit

Well-Known Member
I use Discord. It's managed to make a 5-minute pop-in to collect from my cities turn into hour-long goof-off sessions with fellows and other people I've met in the game, so it might not be for everyone.
 

BrinDarby

Well-Known Member
I'm not sure what you mean by those terms.
ok, my interaction with discord was my old poker site's
forum. I believe they disabled any chat features there.
When I looked into discord, it sure sounded like a service
that you paid for, but in essence just a sliver of space, on
thier servers. Others would still have to sign up, then log
into things, yet everything resides on thier servers (space).

Therefore I consider this a "service". Discord runs in a
browser I thought.....

Verses what AIM was, a standalone product. In that I
mean, you install'd it from 1 of the zillions of AOL
install disks, thus you were also guarenteed it was
virus free. It was a "program", not something running
inside or in conjunction with a browser. The only link
as it was described to me, was the chatroom's name
was index'd so the software knew where to link up
when ppl joined your room. So its not like AOL
was getting a copy of everything said, nor was it
moderated in any way.

I'm not looking for an APP, yet I understand that
almost everything ( not all ) is a D/L these days.
I mean you still can buy software, but its few and
far between.

OK, so option 1 is Discord, since I said other than
social media basically..... is Discord the only player
left ?? does everything have to be a monopoly ?
 

SoggyShorts

Mathematician par Excellence
Therefore I consider this a "service". Discord runs in a
browser I thought.....

Verses what AIM was, a standalone product. In that I
mean, you install'd it from 1 of the zillions of AOL
install disks, thus you were also guarenteed it was
virus free. It was a "program", not something running
inside or in conjunction with a browser.
This doesn't work anymore.
Software like this that you would own and install couldn't have ads, or they could be removed by the user(owner)
That means it couldn't be "free"
and that means no one will choose it over a "service" like discord.
is Discord the only player
left ?? does everything have to be a monopoly ?
Kinda, yeah. The world today goes so fast and has such easy access that whatever is "best" wins and everything else fades to nothing.
 

defiantoneks

Well-Known Member
there are probably other options, but i have not gone digging. discord is very popular because it can be used by just about anyone, and to any number of levels. it does not have to be free. the heavy hitters out there are using paid services, which allows regular peeps like us to use the simple stuff at no charge.

many other chat clients have to be connected by an organization (company) because there's a "purpose" so some IT person is in charge of connecting all the dots of personal info, logins, who sees who, etc. Discord provides that common space so all you have to do is sign up. You get to see any of the public channels or create your own for whatever specific purpose and invite people to it. Discord allows you to organize subcategories in your channel, so you can store useful information (like tips for each guest race) and it's not just mixed in with regular chitchat. super-handy for say, organizing your FA activity. and: pictures, gifs, etc!

Screen Shot 2023-01-25 at 9.51.40 PM.png
 

crackie

Chef, Scroll-Keeper, Buddy's #1 Fan
I use Discord. It's managed to make a 5-minute pop-in to collect from my cities turn into hour-long goof-off sessions with fellows and other people I've met in the game, so it might not be for everyone.
I use Discord. I don't goof off at all. As long as the brass lamp with green shade emoji is on, then I'm automatically being productive and doing important work. Perhaps you need to tweak your stranger danger detector and be more discerning about the slackers and ruffians you associate with on the Internet that's turning you into an unproductive member of society. :)

Therefore I consider this a "service". Discord runs in a
browser I thought.....
It can run on browser OR you can install app for desktop or mobile.

BTW, AIM runs off AOL's servers too and they do have your logs. You can actually connect to AIM servers without using the official AIM app by connecting with 3rd party apps that uses their protocols. Same with Google's gchat/hangout, another on their list of unpopular retired or rebranded projects. If you share images and such on Discord, it's stored on their CDNs too, as are the chats. I'm not sure there is a distinction between "program" vs "app". An app is a program? App is short for application, which is a program.

I'm not looking for an APP, yet I understand that
almost everything ( not all ) is a D/L these days.
I mean you still can buy software, but its few and
far between.
I don't get it. You can still buy software. Go to the app store? A lot of programs are also downloadable from the developer's sites, including desktop versions of discord. Unless you mean at a brick and mortar store? Then it makes financial sense to not sell them. No overhead for packaging and fighting for display real estate in an actual store when it can be downloaded. Also, most devices sold today don't even come with cd/dvd players anymore.
 

BrinDarby

Well-Known Member
whatever is "best" wins and everything else fades to nothing.
IF everything is a monopoly, then the gvmt isn't doing
its job to combat that, I mean seriously.....
App is short for application, which is a program.
"killer app" is the beginning of the popularization of
the term "app". It has since been corrupted into something
else. Killer App, is a killer application of a solution to
a problem. Because so many ppl didn't want to DL programs,
big buisness co-opted "App", so ( no offence ) stupid/lazy
people didn't notice/care that they were back to DL'n stuff
rather than having stuff that just ran in ur browser.
Go to the app store?
NO...... I do not go to, or DL from .... Google's or
Apple's store......
Perhaps you need to tweak your stranger danger detector
No Crackie, its my "losing my constitutiuonal rights"
detector. Its my "forced to use a monopoly", detector.
Its my ,"have my identity stolen detector". Its certainly
not my stranger danger detector.

You see Soggy, Crackie, & others.... Too many in society
nowadays, seem to be both Lazy and Stupid, not to mention
poor and underinformed/misinformed. If I continue this
explanation, I'll hit 2 no-no topics... politics and/or religion.

Suffice to say, when I hear " well thats just how it is nowadays,
you don't have a choice "..... I see :mad: red. I have a choice, we
all have a choice, but that involves effort
. Too many ppl don't
have or won't take the time to expend that effort.

When "we" collectively roll over and just accept the BS, freedom
as we knew it is Gone !! Ever seen an advert that says "not avail
on Amazon", thats someone fighting back to Amazon's BS
practices and fees.
 

Astram

Forum Moderator
Elvenar Team
No Crackie, its my "losing my constitutiuonal rights"
detector. Its my "forced to use a monopoly", detector.
Sounds like politics to me; just saying. Anyway, Brin, step away from the rant and realize that you have no control, and that is how life works.
Your electricity, internet, Gas heating, and cooking, for that matter, just say most all utility services are monopolies in one form or another. Food, cleaning products, paper products ... I could keep going on, but the point is you cannot escape it. Don't start ranting more about it please.
 

crackie

Chef, Scroll-Keeper, Buddy's #1 Fan
No Crackie, its my "losing my constitutiuonal rights"
detector. Its my "forced to use a monopoly", detector.
Its my ,"have my identity stolen detector". Its certainly
not my stranger danger detector.
Well...that reply (and joke) wasn't to you. I'm in free-spirit's FS and plead the 5th about any association with any slackers or ruffians that may or may not be responsible for turning her into an unproductive member of society with nonsensical daily conversations.

"killer app" is the beginning of the popularization of
the term "app". It has since been corrupted into something
else. Killer App, is a killer application of a solution to
a problem. Because so many ppl didn't want to DL programs,
big buisness co-opted "App", so ( no offence ) stupid/lazy
people didn't notice/care that they were back to DL'n stuff
rather than having stuff that just ran in ur browser.
Mmmm...don't think so. App/applications were terms used in development and computer circles that predate mobile devices and broadband, before downloading programs was practical or feasible without tying up your phone line for hours on dialup. And no, I also wouldn't want all my programs to just run in my browser. Sorry, but that is a very limited perspective and myopic view. It's a very narrow lens to push the potentials of software and computing through. Even with Elvenar, the standalone desktop "app" from the Microsoft store actually runs better than the browser to a certain extent, exp when it comes to memory management. It can do that because even though the app is more or less the browser experience, it is stripped of the extra bloat and limits of the browser layer. You're definitely not going to want to try playing Grand Theft Auto or run SolidWorks through a browser. Ironically though, if that's the ecosystem you desire, then it's the alternative that Google is trying to offer with ChromeOS and chromebooks. There are very hard limits of what that sort of computing environment can do. I'd be only as productive as chatting on discord probably. But alas, no need to fear. I know your disdain for all things Google.

NO...... I do not go to, or DL from .... Google's or
Apple's store......
The good news is you are free not to! Like I've said, the official websites of most developers often offer their softwares for download as well and are legit sources.

I'm sorry you've had your identity stolen from the sound of things, but having your identity stolen can also happen because most companies have terrible security practices and do not keep the info they hoard about us secure. Recently, many have been compensated with a check for a whopping ~$5 for their troubles of having all their info stolen because Equifax was breached. In which case, it has nothing to do with downloading anything on the client's part. A company like that is a treasure trove of critical private information and an identity thief's paradise. Even if a company were to hold their data secure and in high regards though, most "hacking" is done via social engineering, which is essentially someone sweet talking an employee with proper access into forking over credentials. It's only as safe as the weakest link in the company. I'm not under any grad illusions that our info isn't already being sold and bought on the dark web.
 

BrinDarby

Well-Known Member
Brin, step away from the rant and realize that you have no control, and that is how life works.
Im not ranting, I was explaining a feeling, within a discussion.
TheLounge allows for non Elvenar topics, mine was on "Chat clients",
but threads are living entities..... lol.....

put on your non-Mod hat for a sec, please ....... I say...
Suffice to say, when I hear " well thats just how it is nowadays,
you don't have a choice "..... I see :mad: red.
and you write
realize that you have no control, and that is how life works.

You just said the same thing I did, and I said it envokes
a specific negative response...... are you trying to make
me upset ????

110% I've learned to not argue with a Mod, therefore I won't.
I'm guessing you found my post to be within guildlines, barely
So with your Mod hat back on, many things in this world have
changed in the last 30 years exactly because someone pushed
back, because some things they do have control over.

if my explanation to "stranger danger detector" violated
guildelines....... I an truly sorry, Astram, till hades freezes....
And if thats the case, I respectfully ask that this whole thread
be removed (poof) gone, like it never happened , please.
( because violating guildlines was not my intent )
 

SoggyShorts

Mathematician par Excellence
IF everything is a monopoly, then the gvmt isn't doing
its job to combat that, I mean seriously.....
Hence why I said "kinda".
"True" Monopolies can be a problem since they can dictate terms and prices without allowing competition.
BUT
as is the case with Google, Amazon, Discord, and several others: They simply offer the best product for the best price and therefore have the largest customer base.

Take Skype as an example: They were bought by Microsoft, and totally dominated as a brand. They were so popular that they reached verb status (to call someone over the internet was called Skyping them) Then came covid, and they should have really shined with all of the WFH, but another player offered a better, easier product and now people call it a"zoom meeting"

When "we" collectively roll over and just accept the BS, freedom
as we knew it is Gone !! Ever seen an advert that says "not avail
on Amazon", thats someone fighting back to Amazon's BS
practices and fees.
Offer people a better service and they'll switch.
It's not about consumers being "stupid and Lazy" it's about wanting the best, and Amazon gives that.

Show me a mom&pops store that offers 2-day free delivery and a 60-day return policy on opened and used products with no questions asked.

If you want to "fight the man" and avoid products that are popular, convenient, and cheap, that's your call, but don't expect others to follow without a good reason and the reasonable expectation of a better personal outcome.

Suffice to say, when I hear " well thats just how it is nowadays,
you don't have a choice "..... I see :mad: red. I have a choice, we
all have a choice, but that involves effort
.
Well... prepare to see red a lot for the rest of your life because that "choice" doesn't just require effort, it's pointless most of the time.

Is there a better product than Discord for chat? Maybe, but even if you put in all the required effort to find/make one it won't work because you also need to get everyone to agree that it's better, and then migrate to your new platform. Then, if they use Discord for other communities (which is highly likely) they need to convince everyone in those groups to migrate as well, and so on.

I somehow doubt that we can get Discord's 150 million users to change over to an as-yet non-existent supposedly better in some undefined way piece of software in order to host the dozen regular forums users we have here.
But go for it, you wouldn't want to be seen as Lazy and Stupid, poor and underinformed/misinformed. ;)
 
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