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    Your Elvenar Team

Why I don't want to Train an Army

DeletedUser5807

Guest
first of all, I am very discouraged that I keep training an army and I can't defeat any of the suspicious characters because they out-size me. I think it is completely unfair to draw me into this game by giving me success in battle and then taking it away by creating an army I can't beat as a new gamer. I am ready to leave Elevenar because the cost of negotiating is ridiculous, the price of diamonds is absurdity, and in general the creators are showing their true maniacal colors. Cease and desist or I shall launch a campaign on Facebook to shut Elevenar down if you don't make it easier to succeed.
 

Thistleknot

Well-Known Member
I see that you are upset with the combat, and apparently several other aspects of the game. I guess I will ask the typical questions. What Age are you in? Have you looked at the newer battle strategy guides? Have you scouted past the Goldilocks Zone? Have you asked for help from people on the forum?

I have been playing for about 16 months now. I am one of those people that Inno says have scouted too far ahead. There are fights that I cannot win and the negotiation costs are outrageous. However, I recently researched Advanced Scouting for the Wood Elves. I have gone back to scout some closer in provinces and I am finding that I can win those combats with patience and proper preparation.

Proper preparation has several parts to it. Carefully choosing my units versus the enemy units. Leaving the combat if I feel that I need to change units out due to terrain or even just changing the order that they are deployed on the field. Knowing when to wait for the enemy and knowing when to charge them.

There is a lot of information here and people are usually willing to help you if you ask. If you look through everything and still are not happy with the game, then leave it. No point in playing a game if you don't enjoy it. I would recommend that you refrain from making threats, such as the last line of your message. Continued comments like this will simply get you banned from the forum and possibly the game. And for those of us that still enjoy the game, I would request that you not go on a jihad to shut down Elvenar.
 

DeletedUser5807

Guest
I see that you are upset with the combat, and apparently several other aspects of the game. I guess I will ask the typical questions. What Age are you in? Have you looked at the newer battle strategy guides? Have you scouted past the Goldilocks Zone? Have you asked for help from people on the forum?

I have been playing for about 16 months now. I am one of those people that Inno says have scouted too far ahead. There are fights that I cannot win and the negotiation costs are outrageous. However, I recently researched Advanced Scouting for the Wood Elves. I have gone back to scout some closer in provinces and I am finding that I can win those combats with patience and proper preparation.

Proper preparation has several parts to it. Carefully choosing my units versus the enemy units. Leaving the combat if I feel that I need to change units out due to terrain or even just changing the order that they are deployed on the field. Knowing when to wait for the enemy and knowing when to charge them.

There is a lot of information here and people are usually willing to help you if you ask. If you look through everything and still are not happy with the game, then leave it. No point in playing a game if you don't enjoy it. I would recommend that you refrain from making threats, such as the last line of your message. Continued comments like this will simply get you banned from the forum and possibly the game. And for those of us that still enjoy the game, I would request that you not go on a jihad to shut down Elvenar.

Thistlenot, I have no idea at all what you are talking about? How does one find out what AGE you are in? I never heard of the Goldilocks Zone. I just started playing the game with little or no instruction. I taught myself and I am obviously not in the right AGE because I am out numbered, out-flanked and I'm ready to quit because I'm tired of the costly negotiations. This is like living in the United States where they keep taxing you and you get little if anything for it except more taxes and a bigger army to defeat you? My units cannot fight off a squad of 58 or 563. I am only a 24 unit a piece squad. How am I to fight an army that is bigger than me by 100 percent? That is just ridiculous that I was not even offered an AGE to chose from when I started the game. I do appreciate your input, but I have not clue. None. Frustrated in Susma.
 

DeletedUser61

Guest
Age is a loose reference to the Chapter that you're in on the research tree.

At the beginning of each chapter there's an Advanced Scouting chest which reduces the cost/difficulty of sectors that you scout AFTERWARDS, by 25%. Consequently, if you get very far ahead of the required number of acquired sectors you'll be facing opponents that are 25% more expensive/difficult than they would have been if you were more circumspect.

Within each chapter there are a few Squad Size technologies which increase the size of YOUR OWN squads.

The Goldilocks (just right) zone is when you have a nice balance between scouted/acquired sectors (enemy squad size) and your own squad size. The combat parameters are tuned such that a skillful player can just barely beat squads that are twice their size, once you account for weighted units (crewed weapons) and the number of squads (fewer squads will be larger, an equal number of squads won't be adjusted, while more squads will be smaller).

We have a forum section that's devoted to Battle Help, so quite a lot of pretty good advice is available.
 

DeletedUser5807

Guest
Keep in mind that change occurs when consumers boycott companies that don't meet their needs. A boycott is not a jihad. There are other players struggling with the same issues and have asked for better guides and better battles engagements. If Elvenar chooses to ban me for joining the many players that are struggling, this would be disastrous. When I started this game I see nothing of which you claim to know and I went back to see and look for what you mentioned and so far your advice is mere drivel. Perhaps you all can share more specifics, because I see nothing in my game of which you refer to.
 

Mykan

Oh Wise One
When I started this game I see nothing of which you claim to know and I went back to see and look for what you mentioned and so far your advice is mere drivel. Perhaps you all can share more specifics, because I see nothing in my game of which you refer to.

You are correct there is nothing in the game that explains this, something many here and in other forums have been requesting be changed so players are better aware. The increasing in-game knowledge has come from player requests so some things are improving slowly. New players can trip over the "goldilocks zone" far too easily as it is about 1-2 provinces in the early eras, it increases to a range of 20 provinces later in the game.

There is a lot of information in the forum available, perhaps you could share some specifics so we can better assist:
  • Are you able to find the information people have mentioned?
  • Was there something specific in the information you were unable to follow/understand/it was confusing?
  • Have you had a look at your technology era and can tell us what era you are in?
  • Can you go to the end of your technology era to the advanced scout technology and look at the chest, what is the province count on the chest? are you for example 100/50 provinces 18/30 provinces, etc? You can also obtain a province count from the pop-up when hovering over the province expansions area.
  • Have you tried fighting in tournaments? Do you have the same issues there?
 

Thistleknot

Well-Known Member
Cease and desist or I shall launch a campaign on Facebook to shut Elevenar down if you don't make it easier to succeed
Just for clarification, launching a campaign to shut down a game is more than a mere boycott. And yes there are players currently boycotting the purchase of diamonds in hopes of getting changes made to the game. But that really isn't what we want to talk about.

Let me see if I can make my questions easier to understand.

1. When you look at the research tree, what chapter are you in? I am guessing that you are in chapter 1 or 2.
2. Have you researched any Advanced Scouts technologies?
3. Look at the required provinces for next Advanced Scouts technology at the beginning of the next chapter. The difference between that requirement and the requirement to get into the current chapter is known as the Goldilocks Zone. This is the point at which at which the enemy squads should be equal or slightly bigger than your squads. Fights should be easier and scouting times should be under a day. If you have scouted more provinces than what is required to get into the next chapter, then your fights will be very difficult and your negotiation fees exorbitant. Have you inadvertently over scouted?
4. I realize that the game has very little instruction to help you. Have you look at the Wiki page? It has a lot of general information about the game. Have you looked at Mykan's Players Guide here on the forum? Mykan has compiled an extensive amount of information and gives helpful hints as well.
5. As far as combat goes, Katwijk suggested looking at the Battle Help forum pages. This is a great source of combat related information. Have you looked at this?

There is a lot of information to go through. Take a breather from the game and read up on things. Hopefully this will answer some of you questions. If not, just ask and someone will try to answer you.
 

DeletedUser5807

Guest
Thank you. I enjoy the game and have invested some time and energy in learning. Like other new players, I am frustrated with the size of the armies I am coming up against. I cannot build an army the size I need that fast - the game won't permit it unless you purchase diamonds at an outrageous price. Other games have allowed you to earn the diamonds by connecting you to vendors who support the game. There is no way I'm going to pay their outrageous diamond price to grow an army. Thus, like all poor country's we earn the terms of "negotiation."

Might I point out to all of you who have been playing the game that the game itself will not let you grow an army fast and they are sort of bullying you to buy diamonds so that you can grow your army fast. So far buying diamonds is the only way you can move quickly in building up an army to fight the Scandalous Characters. Tell me I am wrong or tell me how to build an army fast.

Next, the terms everyone was using so far are confusing at best to a new player. I did figure out that you are referring to the Research option which spreads out a Tree of things you need to progress through. Well, I have made it through the first Chest. I'm getting exhausted trying to meet the negotiation demands. As I said the game will not allow me to build an army faster to fight their huge units unless I buy diamonds. So, I have to be patience or like Thistletoe said, "Quit." (by the way, that is an anemic response. Nothing is changed or bettered by quitting or telling someone to quit).
No, I have not been in a tournament. I am a new player for pity sakes. I'm new, new, new. What part of NEW do people not understand. Clearly, I hope that when I am renowned in this game that I am better at helping new players. I really do. I want to learn, I want to win battles, but I am not going to win battles unless I can build a bigger army to withstand the ones the creators are sending after my units.

Don't want to sound ungrateful because I, clearly, am not ungrateful for the help all of you who took the time to respond have given. Bear with me. I want to become renowned.

Thank you. I enjoy the game and have invested some time and energy in learning. Like other new players, I am frustrated with the size of the armies I am coming up against. I cannot build an army the size I need that fast - the game won't permit it unless you purchase diamonds at an outrageous price. Other games have allowed you to earn the diamonds by connecting you to vendors who support the game. There is no way I'm going to pay their outrageous diamond price to grow an army. Thus, like all poor country's we earn the terms of "negotiation."

Might I point out to all of you who have been playing the game that the game itself will not let you grow an army fast and they are sort of bullying you to buy diamonds so that you can grow your army fast. So far buying diamonds is the only way you can move quickly in building up an army to fight the Scandalous Characters. Tell me I am wrong or tell me how to build an army fast.

Next, the terms everyone was using so far are confusing at best to a new player. I did figure out that you are referring to the Research option which spreads out a Tree of things you need to progress through. Well, I have made it through the first Chest. I'm getting exhausted trying to meet the negotiation demands. As I said the game will not allow me to build an army faster to fight their huge units unless I buy diamonds. So, I have to be patience or like Thistletoe said, "Quit." (by the way, that is an anemic response. Nothing is changed or bettered by quitting or telling someone to quit).
No, I have not been in a tournament. I am a new player for pity sakes. I'm new, new, new. What part of NEW do people not understand. Clearly, I hope that when I am renowned in this game that I am better at helping new players. I really do. I want to learn, I want to win battles, but I am not going to win battles unless I can build a bigger army to withstand the ones the creators are sending after my units.

Don't want to sound ungrateful because I, clearly, am not ungrateful for the help all of you who took the time to respond have given. Bear with me. I want to become renowned.
PS You have your opinons about boycotts, but viewers boycotted the NFL games on t.v. and they won. So there is good that comes out of boycotts. So let us agree to disagree and proceed with building fast armies. I promise, I won't launch a boycott if I can build an army fast to beat the ones that the game is sending after mine. Fair enough?

I have 28/30 provinces. Pretty darn-tootin' slow moving, too. The armies are huge. Some are 538 units against my measly 24 units. GASP! I need 30 to open the second chest that promises me I can train "larger" units. Wow, thanks. I'm excited about this. Won't make it till after Christmas though.
 
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DeletedUser2870

Guest
@Thistleknot
I've started the game anew on Felyndral. There, I'm in the first half of chapter 2 and am competely overmatched now. Can't scout any further because I can't win any battle in ring 4. Ring 3 is already nearly impossible.

I've not unlocked the second boost tech yet, so I'm limited to only steel as my boosted good. Without diamonds for expansions, 5 factories is the most I can place and they're at lvl 5-6 so not really producing a lot. Negotiating is out of the question, meeting the demands for the event as well.

With only axebarbarians, crossbows and paladins I'm facing units that I cannot defeat, where their squadsize is 3x mine. A single hit of any of those units kills entire squads.

So yes, for beginning players there is no fun in this game.

At the same time, in my advanced cities I'm reduced to nothing hut harvesting goods. And there as well, I'm unable to win a single fight. And yes, I CAN meet the negotiation demands, but those too are getting to be completely ridiculous.
The woodelf tech-tree sucks with the special goods only being available after unlocking 75% of that chapters tech and then one has to meet ridiculous demands for those goods for the last 25%, meaning one gets stuck there.

So beginning players are screwed, advanced players are screwed. Seems only the players who follow exactly the pace Inno sets can play the game. That however is not playing, that is doing what you're told, when you're told, without any possible choice or deviation.
 
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Mykan

Oh Wise One
I'm new, new, new. What part of NEW do people not understand.

I have 28/30 provinces. Pretty darn-tootin' slow moving, too. The armies are huge. Some are 538 units against my measly 24 units. GASP! I need 30 to open the second chest that promises me I can train "larger" units. Wow, thanks. I'm excited about this. Won't make it till after Christmas though.

You will find varying degrees of what a new person considers as new, I even saw a person in era 5 saying they were new which was a bit far-fetched. The era you are in helps provide a lot of context for your stage in the game, thank you.

As you explore around the world map you move further out from your town. The map has what are called "rings" or "distance" from your town, check wiki they have a good map explaining the rings. https://en.wiki.elvenar.com/index.php?title=World_Map#Province_Distance

Have you explored in a circular motion? It is the best method to keep fight difficulty and negotiating costs as cheap as possible. If you are going in a circular pattern you should have (will need) to complete all of ring 1-3 and 6 of ring 4. Do not scout any more of ring 4 until after the next advanced scout technology. After era 3 the restrictiveness eases a little but until then only do the number of provinces required for a chest to access the next era.

Speed of building armies depends on many things, they aren't real fast but they are not necessarily glacial either. If your town has sufficient supplies you can work your barracks constantly, higher level the barracks the faster the training time and the more armouries the more troops at a time (but takes longer in barracks as 30 troops takes longer then 10 for example). So many things can impact how many supplies your town has available for armies (visits, workshops, factories, amount your building, quests, etc.)
 

DeletedUser2963

Guest
This brings us back around to the fact that inno really needs to put some information in game.

I too started a new city. I am in the last part of chapter 2. I did not scout beyond what I needed to get out of chapter 1, I did not scout beyond what I needed to get out of chapter 2. As of right now, in ring 3, I out number the enemy by an average of 1.8:1. In ring 4, the fights average 1:1.

That 1:1 ratio is not so easy depending on province type and enemy composition. Maximum squad number is five, which helps, but for a new player, its still pretty difficult due too limited troop types. And that is in the Goldilocks zone. Which is not explained in any way shape or form to new players..

The gradient is too steep and there is no in game info.

Seems only the players who follow exactly the pace Inno sets can play the game.

This is not true. There is only 1 hard wall atm, Orcs. Players can scout and negotiate too the very limit of their cities production abilities right up to that wall, which will gain them more provinces than is required to exit the wood elves chapter.. Once they hit Chapter 8 they can then continue to negotiate and expand beyond that wall.

With the exception of chapters 1 and 2, If you want to fight you need to stay within a three ring area. Three rings is allot of provinces.

So, if you want to fight, stay in the zone. If you don't care about fighting, negotiate out as far as your cities production can support. Fighting is absolutely the slow way to go.
Negotiating will get you higher in the tech tree faster and more province expansions. For new players it's a choice that needs to be clearly explained in game.
 
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DeletedUser2870

Guest
This brings us back around to the fact that inno really needs to put some information in game.

I too started a new city. I am in the last part of chapter 2. I did not scout beyond what I needed to get out of chapter 1, I did not scout beyond what I needed to get out of chapter 2. As of right now, in ring 3, I out number the enemy by an average of 1.8:1. In ring 4, the fights average 1:1.

That 1:1 ratio is not so easy depending on province type and enemy composition. Maximum squad number is five, which helps, but for a new player, its still pretty difficult due too limited troop types. And that is in the Goldilocks zone. Which is not explained in any way shape or form to new players..

The gradient is too steep and there is no in game info.


This is not true. There is only 1 hard wall atm, Orcs. Players can scout and negotiate too the very limit of their cities production abilities right up to that wall, which will gain them more provinces than is required to exit the wood elves chapter.. Once they hit Chapter 8 they can then continue to negotiate and expand beyond that wall.

With the exception of chapters 1 and 2, If you want to fight you need to stay within a three ring area. Three rings is allot of provinces.

So, if you want to fight, stay in the zone. If you don't care about fighting, negotiate out as far as your cities production can support. Fighting is absolutely the slow way to go.
Negotiating will get you higher in the tech tree faster and more province expansions. For new players it's a choice that needs to be clearly explained in game.

Yes, only one hard wall: orcs. Oh yes...further out things are possible by negotiation BUT NOT BY FIGHTING!
But the negotiation costs get to be as ridiculously high as the oversized armies one faces. But at least it is possible.

And possible for starting players? Yes, it seems easy if there are only 2 opposing squads to your 5 in ring 3. Until you notice that those 2 squads are way larger than my 5 combined. It also means that my 5 squads do 5x very puny damage and then one hit from any opposing squad KILLS my entire squad.

Also 3 rings? Right...you try to fight 3 rings out and the losses are just not worth the effort.
But you can keep saying people should stay in that area if they want to fight all you want. If the difference in possibilities between the fighting and negotiating are so large, it's not balanced. Negotiation is not only faster, it's also economically less draining than fighting. This should be the other way around of course.
And why the -beep- does the dev-team keep adding more units to a battle system that is getting less and less usefull by the day? And even more so: why keep adding units that are LESSER in performance than earlier units? The whole fighting system is obviously being develloped by a bunch of people with a decided lack of imagination and a decided lack of any serious knowlegde of how to make things both workable and enjoyable
 
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Thistleknot

Well-Known Member
I've started the game anew on Felyndral
Dhurrin, I wish I had the time to start a new city. I really want to see what issues new players are going through. I know this was a major discussion when the new combat system was fully implemented. With all the complaints, I hope the Inno is actually looking into this issue. It would be a travesty if players are just starting to enjoy the game only to get to chapter 2 to get completely shut down.

Susma,
I'm not sure if your questions have been answered. I hope at least some of them have. I also hope that all the posts here have given you ideas on where to get information to help. I know you had a concern about building an army quickly. There are two parts to building an army in Elvenar. One is to get your barracks as upgraded as you can. The higher the level of your barracks the faster you can train troops. The second part is having your armories upgraded and having multiples of them. Each armory adds to the number of troops that you can train at one time. The issue becomes how much space are you willing to devote to your army. The necessary additional buildings of residencies, workshops, and culture could fill up your available space before you could build too many armories. Also note that in the early part of the game, armies take a long time to build up. Mykan went over this in an earlier post, but I thought it was important enough to you to go over again.

I have to agree with Lyapo. You can still play at any pace you want if you are willing to put in the effort. Inno has not made it easy to go in directions that they consider too fast or too far, but if you are willing to put in the time and effort you can overcome these very large barriers. It would be much more difficult to do so in the early stages of the game. And this is a city-builder game. Fast is not something that is typically used to describe a city-builder. They tend to have a whole lot of hurry-up-and-wait moments.
 

DeletedUser2963

Guest
@Thistleknot Allot of us started new cities so we could post feedback in the forum. We were hearing way too many complaints about late chapter 2, early chapter 3. I am going to put up yet another thread about this in suggestions. The basic issue is troop type and squad number, chapter one and two players do not have the full compliment so the Goldilocks zone, which is 3 rings for chapters 3 and up is not 3 rings for chapter 1 and 2 and it should be, inno needs to fix this.
 
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