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    Your Elvenar Team

WHY WHY WHY

SoulsSilhouette

Buddy Fan Club member
Why in the name of all that is right and good in the legendarium, is there this unreasonable restriction of being able to donate AWKP's outside your fellowship. What in the name of Arda does it give me a message that the 'other user doesn't have enough credits' and that this person has received enough help when the AW isn't even halfway there? Inno moved my neighborhood in Khel and took away all my neighborhood friends. The only help I can give is through AWKP's. The fact that they are disallowing this is loathsome.
 

SoulsSilhouette

Buddy Fan Club member
But the thing is, one of the game strategies is to donate to the AW's you NEED the runes for. I can't do that in the quantity I need to in order to get the runes that I lack.
 
But the thing is, one of the game strategies is to donate to the AW's you NEED the runes for. I can't do that in the quantity I need to in order to get the runes that I lack.
Yes, you can. You'll just need to find other players with those AWs to donate to. If you're seeing that message, it means that the player you are trying to donate to has received a lot of KP without donating any to other people themselves (see: this post and the downthread discussions). If they start donating to people, that message will be removed, but in the meantime you can just donate to different people with the needed wonders.
 

Zoof

Well-Known Member
But the thing is, one of the game strategies is to donate to the AW's you NEED the runes for. I can't do that in the quantity I need to in order to get the runes that I lack.
Then find someone else to donate to.

The people you are trying to donate to are triggering anti-push measures. The game thinks the target city is involved in a KP pushing scheme and is preventing further donations. This has gotten quite common since the relatively sort-of recent changes which makes rune shards worth KP. Read the whole thread to see the drama about locked AWs/cities unfold
 

Flashfyre

Well-Known Member
Donating AWKPs to players outside your Fellowship without asking them if it's OK to do so is often seen as "poaching", where you are trying to get free Runes. Unless you are engaged in a reciprocity trading agreement with all these non-Fellowship players, this is not a "good neighbor" policy.

Trading AWKPs is no different than trading goods, in that both participants must be willing to trade both ways: each must be both Giver and Receiver for the trade to be equitable.
 

hoopity

Member
Donating AWKPs to players outside your Fellowship without asking them if it's OK to do so is often seen as "poaching", where you are trying to get free Runes. Unless you are engaged in a reciprocity trading agreement with all these non-Fellowship players, this is not a "good neighbor" policy.

Trading AWKPs is no different than trading goods, in that both participants must be willing to trade both ways: each must be both Giver and Receiver for the trade to be equitable.

Calling your play-style a policy does not make it a policy. Many players believe that donated KP is just donated KP, and there is no agreement. Trading AW KP is not like trading goods at all, in that no reciprocity is required for AW KP by design.
 

SoulsSilhouette

Buddy Fan Club member
Flash, we are all friends from the neighborhood before Inno moved us all. We have a email thread that we communicate with. We talk about everything from sports to food... and anything else that happens to come to someone's mind. Not everyone is trying to cheat the game. I am trying to play the game. I don't have a lot of neighbors more advanced than I am that are active. They all donate to me as well. Although for the three that I'm referring to, they are more advanced than I am and don't need the runes the way I do because they already have the wonders.
 

SoulsSilhouette

Buddy Fan Club member
@hoopity I don't expect anything in return except for the possible rune I might get when it's complete. To make the assumption that anyone who gets a lot of help in leveling up their AW's is cheating or pushing or whatever is sort of insulting.

Besides, my hats off to anyone who can create a bunch of cities to push another city and keep leveling it all up in order to be FUNCTIONALLY able to push another city. I barely have time to deal with my single cities in each world, much less conspire against the game by making other cities to push mine.
 

Flashfyre

Well-Known Member
And yet, pushing is a known issue that the Devs are still working to address. Just because some of you don't participate in it doesn't make it any less of a problem for the game as a whole.

And just be clear, I don't care one way on another how or where you spend your KPs, whether you poach or not, or even if you have a city in every server with a million diamonds to spend amongst them; I would, however, encourage everyone to spend some time learning about WHY things were implemented before jumping to the conclusion that they were done just to inconvenience YOU.
 

Flashfyre

Well-Known Member
Calling your play-style a policy does not make it a policy. Many players believe that donated KP is just donated KP, and there is no agreement. Trading AW KP is not like trading goods at all, in that no reciprocity is required for AW KP by design.
Not a policy in the official sense, no, but then, there are some players who wish there were a policy against poaching. If you doubt this, please search for "poaching" within this forum, and read every thread. You're sure to be enlightened.
 

SoulsSilhouette

Buddy Fan Club member
Ummm flash, before you reprimand me and admonish me because YOU think that I am jumping to conclusions. I have yet to get a decent explanation as to WHY it was done. The excuse of ''pushing' is old and used for every change. Especially when there are people who are unhappy about it. It's the stock answer. So, don't insult me and condescend to me because you think that you have the corner on truth.
 

Flashfyre

Well-Known Member
The answer has been given, in comments by others up-thread and in other discussion threads. Simply put, once AW rune shards became tradeable currency, the Devs decided to set a limiting factor on how many KPs could be given to a single player without that same player returning the favor and giving away KPs. This reduces the effect of "pushing" which could seriously devalue the AW rune shards (since most high-level players had oodles of them with nothing to use them on). It's not an ideal solution, and, supposedly, it will be scaled down over time as the shard inventories get used up, but for now we have to live with it.
 

SoulsSilhouette

Buddy Fan Club member
It is not a tradeable commodity, though. I can give without ever receiving anything in return, so that explanation doesn't make sense. It hurts those of us who aren't breathing that rarified air.
 

Killy-

Active Member
Silly question from me: How would someone still be blocked for kps at this point in time without pushing? Well - maybe not a silly question but a rhetorical one. :p
 

Zoof

Well-Known Member
Besides, my hats off to anyone who can create a bunch of cities to push another city and keep leveling it all up in order to be FUNCTIONALLY able to push another city. I barely have time to deal with my single cities in each world, much less conspire against the game by making other cities to push mine.

Ehh... those push accounts didn't have to actually be functional. All they had to do was passively accrue KP. I mean, it's a serious flex to have such cities actually perform in some shape or manner, but I figure KP pushing cities would be kept bare. The only real hardship would be logging in and out of each of those cities, and I'm pretty sure many of the serious pushers would've crafted their own quick logon scripts for the purpose of cycling through those cities to push.

---

Anyhoo. I did mention earlier that these lockouts have gotten more common after the rune changes, which made the anti-push measures feel much more restrictive since it can (and has) been triggered over the course of normal gameplay since those changes. If you didn't read or get too far in the thread linked, here's the gist of it:

1. Game keeps track of a hidden balance between incoming and outgoing KP moved towards any particular city's AWs.
2. If the game detects that a city has received (much) more KP than that city's player has disbursed to other people's AWs, it becomes locked down until it receives enough daily KP credits to become unlocked.
3. We've been told not to discuss exact limits. It's suggested that that sort of information is actively modded against.
4. Prior to the change, lots of large players had boatloads of previously unusable runes of all flavors since their corresponding AWs were either leveled comfortably, or completely maxed out.
5. Said large(r) players wanted to be nice to others.
6. Smaller players started choking on their kindness. People went onto the forums asking the mods how to metaphorical CPR their drowning friends.
7. We were told "oops. accidental anti-push measures that we never told anyone about. so sad. tell your poor friends to stop being poor, lol"
8. Everyone involved caught an acute case of the angries
. There was much fire.

Then things sorta went back to normal as either (or both) the overflowing supplies dwindled down or people began figuring out that kindness can be problematic. A new normal. One riding much closer to the edge. Some unfortunate people fall right off and smack face-first into an invisible wall, leaving us dazed and wondering what the heck happened.

It may seem silly, but I've also heard of some weirdly malicious people intentionally blocking off cities by dropping tons of runes on them. It sure does mess up swap threads when you try to perform a swap and realize that the other player can't reciprocate because someone walked in and dumped runes someplace else, thus locking out your city and keeping the other player from completing the swap.

EDIT: I may have overdramatized the last few points in the recap, but people really were upset about the situation and the official response to that situation.
 

SoulsSilhouette

Buddy Fan Club member
I need runes for AW's that my fellows don't currently have. The only way I can get those runes is to donate to people who do have those AW's. Since I am restricted from giving those KP's in the amount that I need to in order to get a shard when they finally are ready for upgrade, I won't realistically be able to build the AW's when they will benefit my city most.
 

SoulsSilhouette

Buddy Fan Club member
@Zoof So I'm one of the unfortunate people who just won't be able to get what I need because someone else behaves badly. If they can identify those players, why not address them instead of punishing me? I will NOT abandon the fellowship in question to join one where they have the AW's I need. Yeah, I'm at the invisible wall and will probably not be able to advance because I need the AW support in order to get what I need. So I guess I won't be advancing anytime soon. Probably not for a year or more.
 

ed1960

Buddy Fan Club member
@Zoof So I'm one of the unfortunate people who just won't be able to get what I need because someone else behaves badly. If they can identify those players, why not address them instead of punishing me? I will NOT abandon the fellowship in question to join one where they have the AW's I need. Yeah, I'm at the invisible wall and will probably not be able to advance because I need the AW support in order to get what I need. So I guess I won't be advancing anytime soon. Probably not for a year or more.
Souls the block is not permanent just temporary and I to have been in the same boat being the only one in my FS with a TW and hunting for runes. just take your time and you can do it. I know cause I did

Ed
 
@SoulsSilhouette , did you miss the part where you can just find someone else with that AW? Unless you're trying to get runes for Chapter 18 or 19 wonders that not many people have built yet, it should be simple enough to find some other players who have built the wonder you want. (ETA: if you're worried about stepping on people's toes, like Flashfyre alluded to, you can look for players who aren't in fellowships, or see if the fellowship overview has specifics related to wonder donation/KP sharing. If they don't, it's likely they won't mind. You can always take the extra, extra step and message someone first to make sure it's okay.)
 
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