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    Your Elvenar Team

WILDCARD for The Pit

muffy.

Chef - Scroll-Keeper and Chandelier Swinger
@helya If this isn’t ok just let me know, I’ll fix it
Suggestion :
As you know , the Pit has 6 revolving requests. Four requests requiring 15 badges and 2 requiring 10 badges.
Many FS’s complete the FA early sometimes leaving 2 or more days of Pit requests. During this time badges are still being made without effort just from regular daily play. Many players have an overabundance of badges that seem to be a waste of time and effort.
Adding 1 Wild Card to the 6 revolving in the Pit would help to eliminate this waste.
The Wild Cards would allow 20 badges of your choice to be used 5 ,5 ,5 ,5 The Wild Card would be worth 30 pts as all others are 50 points
Your still getting points for your FS and you will have less wasted products.
The wild has the option to be used OR passed when a team doesn’t have any excess/overstocked badges
One wildcard per full “cycle” in the whirlpool. If more were available and points are assigned, teams that can, will utilize this to push points in their favor as they can mass produce more of the useless badges than any other teams.
The wild card will add points to your FS not as a competition ,while it does help, it’s a way to end the FA and putting the extras to good use
 

Darielle

Chef, Scroll-Keeper, and Buddy Fan Club Member
I like the idea of a wild card. Perhaps a "wild round"? The only thing I worry about is that someone will accidentally put important badges in the wild slots. But heck, overall it's a great idea.
 

Lady Dastardly

Well-Known Member
I gotta say, no disrespect intended, I really don't like this idea. We have enough trouble getting players to not drop valuable badges into waypoints we clearly and repeatedly tell them not to. Trying to explain how this "Wild card" would work, that it isn't a good return on investment for most of the badge types since it's only 30 pts instead of the expected 50, and that they should only drop guards and wonders into it (those are really the only truly expendable badges in my FS) would be a nightmare for me. Plus, who decides whether to pass or not? Do you have to pass before any badges go in, or can you pass once badges have been added? Are you suddenly requiring 5 badges of the same type to be added at once by the same player, unlike the current mode of adding single badges? I can just see a scenario where someone drops a blacksmith into one of the slots and now you need 4 more of them to clear a "wild card' round that's worth fewer points.
I appreciate the thought behind it, but this just seems very problematic to me.
 

Darielle

Chef, Scroll-Keeper, and Buddy Fan Club Member
I gotta say, no disrespect intended, I really don't like this idea. We have enough trouble getting players to not drop valuable badges into waypoints we clearly and repeatedly tell them not to. Trying to explain how this "Wild card" would work, that it isn't a good return on investment for most of the badge types since it's only 30 pts instead of the expected 50, and that they should only drop guards and wonders into it (those are really the only truly expendable badges in my FS) would be a nightmare for me. Plus, who decides whether to pass or not? Do you have to pass before any badges go in, or can you pass once badges have been added? Are you suddenly requiring 5 badges of the same type to be added at once by the same player, unlike the current mode of adding single badges? I can just see a scenario where someone drops a blacksmith into one of the slots and now you need 4 more of them to clear a "wild card' round that's worth fewer points.
I appreciate the thought behind it, but this just seems very problematic to me.
Yeah, getting anyone to avoid wasting badges is frustrating. We were almost done on a tricolor and only needed 2 necks. Naturally, someone came in and dumped a bunch of necks on a waypoint we couldn't possibly get. It's Murphy's Law, lol.

Still, the idea of a wild card intrigues me. :)
 

Zoof

Well-Known Member
I really do enjoy the idea of having a round where you can throw unwanted or overproduced badges into the dumpster fire that they so desperately belong in.

The idea that someone throwing badges that aren't garbage could be a problem, though I'd ascribe that as an individual or special problem. Perhaps a log of who puts in what badges into that round so such people can be gently corrected. Or named, shamed, and possibly shunned if they're consistently being problematic for whatever reason that I won't speculate out loud on.

Equally problematic, but for a different reason, would be a suggestion to be able to abandon the round after someone decided to screw it up by putting in an actually valuable badge. It could be used to cut any potential losses but it could also be used by bad-faith actors to abandon the round while someone is putting real garbage in its rightful place. Possibly record/log who chooses to abandon a node, or make that something only an AM/Mage can do?

---

A way to solve or help mitigate this problem would be to only allow AM (and/or mages) to set what the badge stack should be, or to choose to skip that round. If your mages are causing problems, demote them. If your AM is being special, then perhaps find a fellowship whose leader hasn't had their last brain cell transferred out and is waiting for their turn on the Orange Cat Network. One drawback to this proposal would be the slowness involved in getting anything to move forward if the appropriate people aren't online at the time

Can you tell yet that I'm still a bit salty over an experience in the distant past?
 

muffy.

Chef - Scroll-Keeper and Chandelier Swinger
I gotta say, no disrespect intended, I really don't like this idea. We have enough trouble getting players to not drop valuable badges into waypoints we clearly and repeatedly tell them not to. Trying to explain how this "Wild card" would work, that it isn't a good return on investment for most of the badge types since it's only 30 pts instead of the expected 50, and that they should only drop guards and wonders into it (those are really the only truly expendable badges in my FS) would be a nightmare for me. Plus, who decides whether to pass or not? Do you have to pass before any badges go in, or can you pass once badges have been added? Are you suddenly requiring 5 badges of the same type to be added at once by the same player, unlike the current mode of adding single badges? I can just see a scenario where someone drops a blacksmith into one of the slots and now you need 4 more of them to clear a "wild card' round that's worth fewer points.
I appreciate the thought behind it, but this just seems very problematic to me.
No disrespect taken . I value your opinions. Keep in mind this is once the paths are completed , this is only involving the pit. You shouldn’t have issues with players dumping badges . You’ve completed the FA . The Pit is your opportunity to get rid of badges you have leftover. Success of anything requires the Archmage and Mages to set their own guidelines on how it’s coordinated. Since the Wildcard is “wild” a player can use up any badges they want. The thought process in having 30 pts instead of 50 is the fact there’s no thought process to getting rid of badges in the Wild catagory . This would be an Inno call if the idea was approved.
Allowing the Wild to be passable gives you the option to use it or not to.
 

muffy.

Chef - Scroll-Keeper and Chandelier Swinger
I really do enjoy the idea of having a round where you can throw unwanted or overproduced badges into the dumpster fire that they so desperately belong in.

Can you tell yet that I'm still a bit salty over an experience in the distant past?

Yes I can tell …I think we’ve all been there lolol .
 

muffy.

Chef - Scroll-Keeper and Chandelier Swinger
Yeah, getting anyone to avoid wasting badges is frustrating. We were almost done on a tricolor and only needed 2 necks. Naturally, someone came in and dumped a bunch of necks on a waypoint we couldn't possibly get. It's Murphy's Law, lol.

Still, the idea of a wild card intrigues me. :)
I guess I don’t see it as a waste but I do understand why some do .To me having leftovers is a waste. The Pits the end …. Why not dump all we can?
 

mephalia39

Member
I have oodles that I can never play and I doubt Im the only one.:) But if its a random wild that shows up, I probably wouldnt draw it to play them lol. well my first full-time job, my nickname was Murphy.:)
 

Darielle

Chef, Scroll-Keeper, and Buddy Fan Club Member
I guess I don’t see it as a waste but I do understand why some do .To me having leftovers is a waste. The Pits the end …. Why not dump all we can?
As someone who has been in a fellowship that gained the number one spot 3 times during my tenure there, I can say that the pit is sometimes more important than the 3 maps. It ain't done until the pit is done, and done well. Dumping a blacksmith in a wild card spot may get someone booted out of the fellowship, lol.
 

Lady Dastardly

Well-Known Member
Keep in mind this is once the paths are completed , this is only involving the pit. You shouldn’t have issues with players dumping badges . You’ve completed the FA .
But you haven't completed the FA, you've completed the maps, which are 1 part of the FA. My FS"s have both been in the pit since Friday afternoon and no one in those FS's thinks the FA ended then. We enjoy the challenge and are playing for rank, and, like it or not, the pit is where FS's make their points. "Wasting" badges, i.e. playing them in places where you don't get points (or in the case of this idea, where you would get fewer points than otherwise) is a very real thing. That's much more of a "waste" in my FS's than having badges leftover.

Thinking about it more, I also don't really see how this would help that much for the less competitive FS to be able to "dump their leftovers" since they would still need to be able to spin the pit enough to get to the wild card round.
 

Kadhrin

Active Member
To me having leftovers is a waste. The Pits the end …. Why not dump all we can?
Because getting people to NOT dump things like blacksmiths, farmers, necklaces, and statues is going to be a real pain?
I've been in groups where we've frequently and often told people repeatedly to stay to one path plus tri-points and only those points, and reminded them more than once.*
There is -always- that one person -- or two, or three -- who dumps a load of goodies on some spot we can't finish.

Alternative idea #1: At the END of the FA, scrape the teams' extra goods and calculate a bonus point value.
Pros: No additional work for players, no need to be online at the last minute.
Cons: Can't see the actual team vs team stats in real time; teams may hold back stuff to snipe in a higher end score. (Potential mitigation: Partial credit for stuff held back?) Extra post-FA time needed for the game to grab the data, do the calculations, etc. Players not getting their game-end goodies as fast as they want.

Alternative idea #2: Once the team is in the Pit, provide a "recycle bin" for a player to specifically dump *all* their stuff into. This effectively ends the FA for *that player*: that player can no longer collect badges or donate to the Pit. (There are 1-2 "Are you SURE??" prompts before you dump everything.) The game calculates points from the donation and immediately adds those to the team score.
Pros: If a player knows they're definitely done, e.g. because of work, they can do *one* final dump and the team gets megapoints. There is no "waste". Also, less waiting for points than Alt #1.
Cons: Players saying "Oh, but I didn't mean to leave the Pit, really" despite the "Are you SURE??" prompts. More complexity to Pit. Requiring players to do a manual action means some people won't do it. Teams may want to pick an end time to make sure their "extra" stuff gets counted -- and it's possible that people will still be missed.

Alternative idea #2a: Add a 10-minute buffer after the "end" of the FA for Pit die-hards (we know who we are) to do their final donation. Still a manual step.
Alternative idea #2b: Once the team is in the Pit, provide a "recycle bin" for a player to specifically dump *some* of their stuff into. This does not have the effect of ending the FA for the player. It still requires a manual action. It still has the potential for people to dump "valuable" stuff.

*This sentence brought to you by the Department of Redundancy Department.
 
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