Will phoenix bases disappear from the MA?

[Deleted User - 849402856]

I currently have the fire phoenix base available in the MA. However, I will be entering Chapter 5 in less than a week, so I am wondering if the phoenix bases will disappear from the MA any time soon.

I know that for the fire phoenix the chapter is not so important. However, once I enter Chapter 6 in the future, I am going to upgrade the fire phoenix to Chapter 6 for the portal profit, and thus I want to have a higher-chapter fire phoenix if possible.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Gladiola]

The fire phoenix base will remain in the MA. However, consider this: prior to chapter 6, fire phoenixes give coin rains. I decided to craft my fire phoenix in chapter 4 even though it will cost more to upgrade in order to start collecting those coin rains. Of course you are much closer to chapter 5 than I am (it will probably be at least 4 weeks for me), so it might be better for you to wait. That's what I did in chapter 3, waited until chapter 4 to craft it. I also wanted to have a place to put it in my city before crafting it, so that's something else to think about.

 

[Deleted User - 849402856]

@Gladiola Thanks for the answer. If the FP base will continue to be around, then I may craft it in Chapter 6. At our stage, we don't really fight much as we don't have many tournament provinces open yet. Even after considering the coin rain, I think the footprint can be utilized more efficiently for something else.

 

[Gladiola]

@Kazaaar it also gives supplies plus culture and population. It's not as great at those as a workshop or a culture/pop event building, but the coin rain PLUS coins PLUS supplies PLUS culture/pop? I think that's pretty hard to argue, and when you throw in the feeding effect it makes for a very nice package.

In chapter 4 with my phoenix evolved to level 7 (and hopefully higher as I get more evolutions in the MA), my 4x4 fire phoenix will yield 206 population, 276 culture, 31,400 coins, and 6,240 supplies every day and a 5% coin rain every 48 hours. Plus a rune fragment, which is mostly useless but occasionally can be use to make AW KP.

I doubt I'll use the feeding effect until later chapters, but I might use it on a Friday sometime and try to fit in 2 tournament rounds and a couple levels of the Spire (using timers for the Spire).

 

[Deleted User - 849402856]

@Gladiola Thanks for the points. Actually I may change my plan and replace a workshop with a fire phoenix. I have always thought that for supplies workshops are pretty efficient thanks to the PP spells, but I just ran some numbers and found out that per-tile basis the FP outperforms workshops. I will probably build the FP once I enter Chapter 5. Along with the new set buildings from the next event, this is going to require an overhaul of my city layout plan.

 

[Gladiola]

I am not sure, but I think the culture bonus also applies to the fire phoenix, so it will produce more coins and more supplies if you are running a culture bonus. Can anyone confirm this?

 

[Deleted User - 849402856]

@Gladiola I am not sure about that, either. It does seem that the culture bonus applies to the supplies from the Moonstone gate.

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

I am not sure, but I think the culture bonus also applies to the fire phoenix, so it will produce more coins and more supplies if you are running a culture bonus. Can anyone confirm this?

Only the primary production gets the boost. This will be the item the time bar is counting down for.

 

[Dew Spinner]

@Kazaaar it also gives supplies plus culture and population. It's not as great at those as a workshop or a culture/pop event building, but the coin rain PLUS coins PLUS supplies PLUS culture/pop? I think that's pretty hard to argue, and when you throw in the feeding effect it makes for a very nice package.

In chapter 4 with my phoenix evolved to level 7 (and hopefully higher as I get more evolutions in the MA), my 4x4 fire phoenix will yield 206 population, 276 culture, 31,400 coins, and 6,240 supplies every day and a 5% coin rain every 48 hours. Plus a rune fragment, which is mostly useless but occasionally can be use to make AW KP.

I doubt I'll use the feeding effect until later chapters, but I might use it on a Friday sometime and try to fit in 2 tournament rounds and a couple levels of the Spire (using timers for the Spire).

All productions in a Fire Phoenix are on a 48hr collect.

 

[DeletedUser27062]

@Gladiola Thanks for the points. Actually I may change my plan and replace a workshop with a fire phoenix. I have always thought that for supplies workshops are pretty efficient thanks to the PP spells, but I just ran some numbers and found out that per-tile basis the FP outperforms workshops. I will probably build the FP once I enter Chapter 5. Along with the new set buildings from the next event, this is going to require an overhaul of my city layout plan.

I would caution against using the FP in place of a workshop. The 2 day collect means a long dry haul between drinks of water.
Other things to consider are that from chapter to chapter your needs will shift. I don't know of anyone post ch 5 who cares about the coin & culture the FP offers. They are bonuses, not the main attraction. In my ch 4 beta city the coin & culture are more valuable to me but by ch 5 coin won't be an issue (I'll most likely have more than I need). The pop will be welcome thru ch 5 but in my ch 8 city I'm deleting magic residences because the upgraded housing offers a huge increase. Rune shards are helpful to craft runes or even craft AW KP in the MA.
My point is that what is most valuable to you now most likely won't be in subsequent chapters.

 

[Iyapo1]

I'm deleting magic residences because

What! NOoooooooo! Teleport! Teleport! Well...unless you have won a truely stupid number of these in the spire...but still...every part of me screamed nooooooo!

 

[Gladiola]

@Dew Spinner in presenting my coin and supply production numbers I divided the 48-hour production by two. I felt it was more useful to present that as a daily number, even though the collection cycle is 48 hours. So the quantity per day I mentioned is accurate, although it is collected in a 48-hour cycle.

 

[Gladiola]

@Eudaemonia I don't need the coins too much, but the coin rains can be converted to spell fragments. I use pop/culture buildings and fewer residences, so my coin oversupply is not as bad as it could be for someone who has more residences.

 

[Dew Spinner]

@Dew Spinner in presenting my coin and supply production numbers I divided the 48-hour production by two. I felt it was more useful to present that as a daily number, even though the collection cycle is 48 hours. So the quantity per day I mentioned is accurate, although it is collected in a 48-hour cycle.

I figured that is what you did but it can be confusing to new players reading this thread, so I thought I would clarify that it is all on a 48 hr collect.

 

[Deleted User - 849402856]

I would caution against using the FP in place of a workshop. The 2 day collect means a long dry haul between drinks of water.
Other things to consider are that from chapter to chapter your needs will shift. I don't know of anyone post ch 5 who cares about the coin & culture the FP offers. They are bonuses, not the main attraction. In my ch 4 beta city the coin & culture are more valuable to me but by ch 5 coin won't be an issue (I'll most likely have more than I need). The pop will be welcome thru ch 5 but in my ch 8 city I'm deleting magic residences because the upgraded housing offers a huge increase. Rune shards are helpful to craft runes or even craft AW KP in the MA.
My point is that what is most valuable to you now most likely won't be in subsequent chapters.

Thanks for the points. Below are my thoughts.
(1) The 2-day collection is indeed long. I have 3 - 4 workshops, though, so I thought they would be able to fill the dry spell.
(2) I understand that the main attraction of the FP is the feeding effect. Everything else (pop, culture, coin, supply, rune shard, and either coin rain or portal profit) is at best secondary. However, when compared to other production buildings, the produce from the FP may not be so insignificant.

In Chapter 5 (and I am human), a Level 15 workshop (3x4) produces 13755 supplies per day (four 3-hour runs and one 9-hour run) under 150% culture.
A Chapter 5, Stage 10 FP (4x4) produces 11520 supplies per day.
Therefore, we can already see that the FP does not underperform too badly compared to a workshop.

And actually, this relation reverses when we compare them on a per-tile basis.
The workshop, after accounting for the pop and culture it consumes, effectively occupies 26.86 tiles, so each tile produces 512 supplies per day.
The FP, after accounting for the pop and culture it provides, effectively occupies 3.6 tiles, so each tile produces 3200 supplies per day.

Of course, there are other factors that can turn the comparison in favor of the workshop. For instance, PP spells can be used on a workshop, and EE spells can further increase the output of the workshop. A magic residence would reduce the value of the pop provided by the FP. Also, the short production cycle of the workshop helps clear more repeated quests and thereby earn more rewards. However, then the above calculation also leaves out all the other fringe benefits of the FP (coin, rune shard, and instants).

In addition, the calculation can be affected heavily by which chapter one is in. For Chapter 5 human, the last residence technology (superior residence) was in early Chapter 3, so the residences are in a sense a bit outdated, which increases the value of the pop from the FP. In contrast, for someone who has just opened a new residence technology, the value of the pop from the FP might be smaller.

My point is that depending on each person's situation, the produce from the FP may not be so negligible.

 

[Dew Spinner]

Thanks for the points. Below are my thoughts.
(1) The 2-day collection is indeed long. I have 3 - 4 workshops, though, so I thought they would be able to fill the dry spell.
(2) I understand that the main attraction of the FP is the feeding effect. Everything else (pop, culture, coin, supply, rune shard, and either coin rain or portal profit) is at best secondary. However, when compared to other production buildings, the produce from the FP may not be so insignificant.

In Chapter 5 (and I am human), a Level 15 workshop (3x4) produces 13755 supplies per day (four 3-hour runs and one 9-hour run) under 150% culture.
A Chapter 5, Stage 10 FP (4x4) produces 11520 supplies per day.
Therefore, we can already see that the FP does not underperform too badly compared to a workshop.

And actually, this relation reverses when we compare them on a per-tile basis.
The workshop, after accounting for the pop and culture it consumes, effectively occupies 26.86 tiles, so each tile produces 512 supplies per day.
The FP, after accounting for the pop and culture it provides, effectively occupies 3.6 tiles, so each tile produces 3200 supplies per day.

Of course, there are other factors that can turn the comparison in favor of the workshop. For instance, PP spells can be used on a workshop, and EE spells can further increase the output of the workshop. A magic residence would reduce the value of the pop provided by the FP. Also, the short production cycle of the workshop helps clear more repeated quests and thereby earn more rewards. However, then the above calculation also leaves out all the other fringe benefits of the FP (coin, rune shard, and instants).

In addition, the calculation can be affected heavily by which chapter one is in. For Chapter 5 human, the last residence technology (superior residence) was in early Chapter 3, so the residences are in a sense a bit outdated, which increases the value of the pop from the FP. In contrast, for someone who has just opened a new residence technology, the value of the pop from the FP might be smaller.

My point is that depending on each person's situation, the produce from the FP may not be so negligible.

It's definitely ALL useful but what Euda is saying is that after awhile you have a stash of the other things and they are less eye popping, I have almost 400 various coin rains. But a fat horde is nice to have!