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    Your Elvenar Team

Winter Event - Not a total loss

DeletedUser13467

Guest
Besides the obvious dump taken on new players with the double crowns day prizes, this event isn't a total loss. The grand prizes were placed at fair crown amounts for all players, are good for all players, and can be won by all players. I guess that was Inno's three goals? There are so many problems with this event, that it almost undoes any good by the grand prize cost and order, though. Not only has a dump been taken on the early players with the double crowns prizes, but also late players who fail to get the set buildings.

The design is flawed.
 

DeletedUser8187

Guest
I liked the prizes. Although I would like them even better if my crummy luck ended and I could win the ones I really liked. Buts thats not INNO's doing or is it? ;)
 
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DeletedUser13467

Guest
Any specific suggestions for improvement?
Many, but they hardly listen.
I liked the prizes. Although I would like them even better if my crummy luck ended and I could win the ones I really liked.
Here's where people draw the lines, can't agree, and go in different directions. Many of the directions are understood, and even expected. For example, having one prize that is ultimately over-powered but keeps all players happy -would NOT be the solution to any event. That's not what I'm saying. As for luck? I think it is one element that is needed to keep an event interesting. But, NOT ON TIME LIMITED SET BUILDINGS.

As for double crown days, when I need not repeat it again as I've already expressed my thoughts on that in this and two other threads.

How could this event have been designed better?

It's disgusting how stubborn some companies can be once they get into dreadful habits of repeats, simply because it worked once so they figure it will again...and again...and again... A good game should be designed with solid BASE that does not change. HOWEVER, during a time-limited event all standard rules should be disregarded and new elements should be introduced. ENTIRELY new elements. And more importantly, ELEMENTS should be balanced for both new and old player, casher or nay, and NEVER make a player feel unimportant or forced to purchase certain prizes for the only way to get the big one. MORE SO, if events are simply designed too quickly and crammed too closely together OF COURSE THERE WILL BE PROBLEMS!

They are simply asking for negative feedback when they are producing simple, half-fineshed designs that are not even thought out long enough to know better. But will these issues ever be resolved? Some might. Are they trying? I believe they are. But did they fail? Yes, badly.
 
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SoggyShorts

Mathematician par Excellence
Many, but they hardly listen.
I just skimmed the 68 posts you've made on the forums, but wasn't able to find any specific suggestions on how to improve the event. Did I miss them, or are they under another forum name? The closest I could find was the many posts explaining why you don't like double crown days to be on buff building days, but that's only half an idea--which days specifically should they have been on instead?
A good game should be designed with solid BASE that does not change. HOWEVER, during a time-limited event all standard rules should be disregarded and new elements should be introduced. ENTIRELY new elements. And more importantly, ELEMENTS should be balanced for both new and old player, casher or nay, and NEVER make a player feel unimportant or forced to purchase certain prizes for the only way to get the big one.
This is kind of strange feedback. I've reread it 3 times, and still it seems to say nothing.
"A game should have stuff that doesn't change, but during an event, that should change and there should be new stuff. Totally new stuff. Balanced new stuff for every playstyle."
If you were in a room with the developers and had all of their undivided attention, and said that to them, what should they take away from it?
 

DeletedUser13467

Guest
This is kind of strange feedback. I've reread it 3 times, and still it seems to say nothing.
"A game should have stuff that doesn't change, but during an event, that should change and there should be new stuff. Totally new stuff. Balanced new stuff for every playstyle."
Allow me to explain it better.
A game needs a solid BASE that does not change, to make events special.
Events should be special and unique, not repeating the last, etc.
Balance is needed in both fields.
And no, I read ALL of the suggestions on this forum and Inno never implements the ones that would actually IMPROVE the game.
More so, the events seem to be designed by children but made for adults. That needs to change.
Is this clear enough?
 

SoggyShorts

Mathematician par Excellence
Nope, it's still not clear at all. Lemme try again:
Events should be special and unique, not repeating the last, etc.
Like what? What is your idea that would make an event special and unique? Even if it's someone else's idea that you'd like to repeat, or even better expand upon, THAT would be helpful.
More so, the events seem to be designed by children but made for adults. That needs to change.
How is this helpful? How can the developers take this feedback and turn it into what you want? After reading this what do you imagine the best possible response is? How would an event designed by an adult be different? What part seems childish to you?


It's very easy to say "I don't like this", but it doesn't give the developers anything to work with.
If you tell the restaurant staff "I didn't enjoy the meal"
-What do you expect them to do? Where can they go from there? How do they avoid the same mistakes?
If you tell the restaurant staff "I didn't enjoy the meal, perhaps replacing the linguini noodle with penne to better hold the sauce, adding a little more kick (a dash of cayenne?) and pairing it with a full-bodied wine would have improved it"
-That is something they can work with.

Here's an actual Elvenar example:
There is a change coming to live where a chapter 7 orc nest will now produce Tier 3 goods instead of supplies.

Player 1: "I hate it when they change buildings that we have already won."
-Important feedback, and a valid point, but still not super helpful.

Player 2: "Why not make all existing orc nests into "Legacy Orc Nests" and keep them the way they are. Then any "New Orc Nests" that players win can produce T3. Since players have designed their cities based on the buildings that they have already placed, this would prevent anyone from being annoyed at the proposed changes."
-The same feedback, but this one comes with an actual fix.

Can you see how Player 2 has given the developers something they can actually use?
 
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DeletedUser13467

Guest
I'll start a new thread in the suggestions area. Not that it will do any good, as there are so many good ideas already there gathering dust. I think the ONLY thing that saved this event were the low costs and order of the grand prizes. I want to know if anyone else agrees about this event.
Join the Angry Side :)
 

mucksterme

Oh Wise One
Saying
"they took a dump on us but I'm not going to get into specifics"
is unhelpful and childish.
It really makes it sound like you want to complain but really have no idea what you are talking about.

You remind me of the kind of people I have so often dealt with who say,
"Obamacare is terrible and doesn't work"
And when I ask, "in what way is it terrible?"
They say, "IT IS OBVIOUS"
Because, they don't really know
 

DeletedUser13467

Guest
If you can't be serious, I can't laugh :)
Yes, my illiteracy is the bane of my existence.
I have always wished that I was at least intelligent enough to be able to spell words like emperor.
Looks like someone joined the "I don't get it, durr" side... Anyway, pretty much the only thing NOT messed up in this event are the costs and order of the grand prizes, in my opinion. Those, are actually about right for both early and late player.
 

DeletedUser9601

Guest
The idea that the events shouldn't be repetitive isn't really helpful. Because let's face it, Inno has limited resources/time. So they can do 4-5 major events that are mostly a re-skin of the last major events (same quest style, same crown/coin/acorn cumulative prize system, same general prize structure), and add in a wrinkle or two each time (eg, double crowns for the Fall event, set buildings for the Winter event).

Or, they can do a "completely new thing" like you want, but then maybe we're getting 1 event a year. Because now they need to develop new quests, and playtest them. And develop new rewards, and playtest those.

And guess what. That "completely new thing" last time was Fellowship Adventures, which nearly everyone has criticized.
 

DeletedUser9601

Guest
You have a point...
I do get what you're saying though. For early chapter players, the event can really mess up your city growth, and they are the players who really benefit from Double Crown days (since they likely won't get through the mainline quest, and will be locked out of some daily quests).
But the core problem for this game, and any reasonably complicated game, is that there are a lot of ways a new player can make bad decisions and really hamstring his growth. For instance, a new player in Chapter 3 would be much better served ignoring the event altogether, picking up a few keys off the ground, and maybe finishing the first few dozen quests. Because spending the event's 30 days for a few buildings is not a good use of time; in that time/with those resources, the player could have moved on to Chapter 4 and built up a good city base.

But this is an issue that plagues nearly every complicated game. With MMOs, you have people filling out garbage talent trees; with RPGs, you have warriors running around with wands and cloth armor; with shooters, you have people playing as a sniper with a shotgun.

I think the forums can (and do) help a lot of newer players, but if someone isn't seeking out the forums, or looking for third-party guides, I don't see a way to "save" these players from making mistakes. Yes, Inno could give better rewards on Double Crown days, or stagger Double Crown rewards for Chs 1-3 players - e.g., you only get the best pop/culture building). But then we get close to "hand-holding," and that's not really how this game is structured.
 

DeletedUser12171

Guest
"better rewards on double crown days" is subjective. Who defines better? I wanted the prize on the latest double crown day - the mage multiplier - because I'm gearing up for the gems tournament and that is an awesome prize for me. Every prize in the event has a certain trade off:

Some buildings have very high culture per square but are small, so you pay more crowns for a smaller overall area
Some buildings have overall higher culture but cover a bigger area so give lower culture per square
Some buildings are hybrids so you get a bit of everything but not a super stat on a single item (culture/pop/supplies)
Some buildings are just space fillers but someone might just want a space filler
The double crown days make it possible to get ALL 3 GRAND PRIZES without spending a single diamond. Of course, you're going to have to work for it (by completing most of the quests and picking up free keys. The trade-off is you have to hold off on some other daily prizes. What did you expect? To have the cake and eat it too?

New players tend to get the short end of the stick on events. The first event I played was the Herds (summer) event. I joined halfway into it. I only managed to get a purple unicorn, a leaf codex, a valorian valor and the first GP. Nowhere near even the 2nd GP and I didn't even know sites like gamersgems had a prize list for people to plan ahead. Still, I found the prizes decent, and held my herds prize all the way to chapter 4. By that time it was the autumn event and I played that one better, from the info I got from the forums and gamersgems, getting all 3 GPs and a few other daily prizes I wanted. All without spending a single diamond. I don't see any problem here really.

IMO this is just a case of a guy who didn't get what he wanted and got angry. Sorry but no one can help you there.
 
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Thistleknot

Well-Known Member
Overall, I have no issues with the quests and the prizes for the events. The double crown days have prizes that have a perceived value that is lesser than other prizes. I will say there are definitely quests that are more difficult for newer players. Most challenging quests for me have been the scouting quests and the gaining relics. The scouting just takes time, 60+ hours for me. For gaining relics, I'm having to time things with the tournaments.
 

edeba

Well-Known Member
I did get all three prizes, but correct me if I am wrong, they aren't as significant as they were in the past.
 

Thistleknot

Well-Known Member
In general, the prizes are balanced differently. Most of the culture/pop buildings have more culture and less population than buildings of similar size from previous events. I haven't done a lot of research into it, but most people seem to think that all of the bonuses on buildings from this event are less than previous events.
 
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