Winter Magic Event Feedback

[Enevhar Aldarion]

They said that they tuned the regular section in such a way that it should be barely enough for a fully evolved building, and given variability of results some people won't be able to hit that target with just regular quests. My simulation shows ribbon cost per grand prize of 325, and you need 17 GP to hit L10 meaning you need slightly less than 5600 ribbons for L10 on average. After completing the regular quest line and with some initial ribbons + city collections I had about 5250 ribbons, so this roughly checks out. I believe people who already rolled the dice after completing regular quest line also report L9-L10 evolutions.

It also matters how good or bad your luck is with the bricks. Even with the amount of ribbons expected, if you get more one brick results versus three brick results, you are going to be worse off than someone who gets the opposite. I am probably only a few quests away from the bonus ones and I still need two more artifacts to max my building, so still three grand prizes away.

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

Unless they are combining the sentient progress with normal progress, adding the sentient accumulation to the quest as another possibility does not do much.

Sentient goods productions count for Crafting Challenge and FA requirements, so I don't understand why they do not for events.

 

[Pheryll]

Sentient goods productions count for Crafting Challenge and FA requirements, so I don't understand why they do not for events.

For FA each manufacturing badge requires only one production of each type. For events, the number of sentient factories and the amount they would produce vs. normal tends to be a small ratio. If multiple sentient runs are needed for each quest and they cannot be combined with normal production, then you would end up filling each quest with just normal production and the sentient inclusion would not do much to speed things up.

 

[samidodamage]

Sentient goods productions count for Crafting Challenge and FA requirements, so I don't understand why they do not for events.

They removed the quests that required boosted 1 & 2 day factory productions for events. Those quests called for 'produce giant globe x2' for example. Since sentients are produced in those time 'slots' in lvl24+ factories, those collections counted. I don't think the devs intended or liked that and used the change to 'produce x amount of a good' to retire those quests as well (<pure speculation on my part). So now, when you need to produce 'steel' for example, it doesn't count because those slots produce 'platinum'.

 

[Pheryll]

I don't think the devs intended or liked that and used the change to 'produce x amount of a good' to retire those quests as well (<pure speculation on my part).

The reason, as I see it, was allowing level 1 manufactories to complete them completely takes away the challenge, and requiring higher level manufactories drastically favors the early chapters and the elven race due to the small size of manufactories. Total production is roughly proportional to the space the building takes up when comparing manufactories of the same level, so total production is an easier way to handle balancing than requiring a specific number of certain productions.

 

[NightshadeCS]

@qaccy It generally is NEVER best to have your manufs at maximum level. They are in efficient if you are a non$$$$$ player. For free player you have lower population and culture/square since you don't use Magic. The upgrade requirements dictate it's best to stay way behind max level. I generally have my Manufs 8-10 levels below max. There is an efficiency calculator out there that proves this.

Link? <sigh> Where's @SoggyShorts when you need him? Oh, yeah, probably on some sunny island enjoying NOT crunching Elvarian numbers for free...

 

[Pheryll]

Just because premium players can buy magic residences does not necessarily place them at a large advantage over free players. The Venar's Rocks III of this past summer had a very significant influence on what free players could achieve. But now with magic residences being offered in the spire, the gap is closing; and magic workshops are starting to make little sense in the late chapters, especially chapter 15 where the supply production is significantly buffed and the main prouduction shifts from standard goods to sentient goods.

 

[chgobob33]

Link? <sigh> Where's @SoggyShorts when you need him? Oh, yeah, probably on some sunny island enjoying NOT crunching Elvarian numbers for free...

Hi, I think the player may have stopped playing Serrif has not been updated for last couple chapters and not active elvenstats since last December. But it's results match when I have on occasion manually done calculations. In general for each upgrade of x goods at higher levels they each more people and culture. To some extent this is ok because in later chapters your regular residences/culture/roads are higher density. To me it screws so much that the designers assume folks are using Magic Residences and Culture. Of course Eventbuildings for Pop/Culture can offset this calculation a bit.

One other thing that for me is very important, is with this trade off is more manuf space but less Required Culture which makes it MUCH easier to run at a higher culture boost. I run at 150% without much or any help which vastly increases my supplies/coin output. With a little neighbor help I run at 160% plus a few EE's and not at 185% production.

Just what I and others have observed, play whatever way works for you. I DON'T care about ranking points personally, that is one advantage of high level manufs since points= x+y+z+required pop+required culture etc

Elvenar Efficiency Calculator

I created a little calculator for trying to compare the efficiency of various buildings and building levels, as it's often hard to make sense of the numbers (generally speaking, as you upgrade a building, the culture and population requirements grow faster than the output, while the building's...

us.forum.elvenar.com

Elvenar Calculator

 

[chgobob33]

Just because premium players can buy magic residences does not necessarily place them at a large advantage over free players. The Venar's Rocks III of this past summer had a very significant influence on what free players could achieve. But now with magic residences being offered in the spire, the gap is closing; and magic workshops are starting to make little sense in the late chapters, especially chapter 15 where the supply production is significantly buffed and the main prouduction shifts from standard goods to sentient goods.

Ok, well somewhat. We have had some very powerful event buildings that cut the edge (though usually you lose the coin production). I really like power of Rise of the Phoenix and Cozy Farm. The whole Magic residence thing seems a gimmick, I hardly ever see one and like almost everyone in my high ranked fellowship hate the Spire. Remember this event really stinks because people are getting so many fewer Daily Prize buildings (to replace older chapter event buildings) with the screwed up nonsense grid.

 

[DeletedUser3468]

Glad to see someone discussing the whole "sentient goods" production thing. Right now I've had to call a halt to most of my sentient good production (at least for my normally boosted good) for the duration of this event so that I can be certain that when I get several of the goods quests over and over (but it's not a repetition because it's worded differently and has a different amount! ) I willl actually have the regular boosted good, not some much smaller amount of the sentient good instead. Yes, I can and do carry on making my other sentient goods (at least it's a different T1 that's boosted at the level of Elementals) but it's still slowing down my progress overall. This whole thing has gotten very annoying. I wonder if I should remind the members of my Fellowship who are saving their ribbons for a special day to be prepared to bored out of their skulls when they finally go for the prize since it's going to be a really tedious trudge to smash all those boxes, bricks, etc. (Maybe this is why some people like Candy Crush... mindless tedious smashing with boring animations and bad artwork to go wiith it... yeah, not up to the usual standards of artwork for Elvenar at all) OK my workshops should be done now so I can stop rambling...

 

[chgobob33]

They said that they tuned the regular section in such a way that it should be barely enough for a fully evolved building, and given variability of results some people won't be able to hit that target with just regular quests. My simulation shows ribbon cost per grand prize of 325, and you need 17 GP to hit L10 meaning you need slightly less than 5600 ribbons for L10 on average. After completing the regular quest line and with some initial ribbons + city collections I had about 5250 ribbons, so this roughly checks out. I believe people who already rolled the dice after completing regular quest line also report L9-L10 evolutions.

@MinMax Gamer Thanks so much to at least give us a rule of thumb! Because of the bonus quests (ie scout or tech only quest) it could really mess up a persons city (overscouting eg or no real techs open in Ch 15) attempting to get a second building to full power. Of are you going to try for a second full power one? (I got 4 mermaids up to at least lvl 9 FYI) so am willing to hit an event hard.

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

Alright, I just finished all the regular quests and the first bonus quest. With all the ribbons that gave, plus some from the presents and one ribbon reward from a vision vapor chest, and the free 100 from the newsletter, I am still 21 bricks short of maxing the building, so one brick for the current grand prize and 20 for the 9th artifact. And that is with what I felt was a good result on getting three bricks in what I consider a good rate compared to getting one brick. So someone with better brick luck than me could have the building maxed at the end of the normal quests, while someone with worse luck could be at least a couple grand prizes behind me, maybe more. Also, I am not sure how many ribbons quests 1-130 add up to, but take that amount and add maybe another 1200 or so to that for all the extras I got, and then all the free ribbons from all the shuffles, which I did not track at all, to get the total amount of ribbons I spent to not even finish the building yet.

 

[Deleted User - 3932582]

Because of the bonus quests (ie scout or tech only quest) it could really mess up a persons city (overscouting eg or no real techs open in Ch 15) attempting to get a second building to full power. Of are you going to try for a second full power one?

Second mansion can't be done to any decent level without ridiculous resource expenditure (timeboosts/provinces etc) or using multiple cities exploit. And the building is not that good to expend that much effort either way, IMO.

I am not sure how many ribbons quests 1-130 add up to

It's 4809 ribbons from regular quests, plus starting/bonus/collection ones.

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

It's 4809 ribbons from regular quests, plus starting/bonus/collection ones.

Okay, so I would estimate that I had gotten at least 6000 ribbons once I completed the final normal quest and I still a minimum of 7 more hammers at 3 bricks each, or 350 more ribbons, to complete the building, and probably 10 and not 7, so 500 ribbons. It looks to me like that estimate of 5600 ribbons to max the building that has been posted before is low by about 1000. That or they way overestimated how often people would get 3 bricks per hammer. Or they estimated way more shuffles for the free hammers than I got.

 

[DeletedUser24458]

They mentioned on the Facebook live chat today that this event was suppose to get us out of our comfort zone and make us learn new strategies. What type of strategy do you use on a Vegas slot machine style event? I am thankful they have lots of quests but if you have the dumbest luck out there, how are we to even have a chance when the bonus quests are harder/more time consuming and give way less ribbons. They should come right out and say "yes we made a slot machine event." I would still not like it but at least it would be honest. So the new strategy is to roll the dice.

 

[Deleted User - 3932582]

Okay, so I would estimate that I had gotten at least 6000 ribbons once I completed the final normal quest and I still a minimum of 7 more hammers at 3 bricks each, or 350 more ribbons, to complete the building, and probably 10 and not 7, so 500 ribbons. It looks to me like that estimate of 5600 ribbons to max the building that has been posted before is low by about 1000. That or they way overestimated how often people would get 3 bricks per hammer. Or they estimated way more shuffles for the free hammers than I got.

Not sure how would you get 6000 at this point in time unless you've bought some ribbon packs, or won a ton of ribbons from Mystery Object. By the time I finished all the regular quests + initial and email ribbons, plus regular city collections for a week, I was at 5218 ribbons only (no ribbons spent). Or are you counting the ribbons that you've won opening presents? The 350/5600 numbers are for pure input, actual number of ribbons spent would be higher because you win some back.

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

Not sure how would you get 6000 at this point in time unless you've bought some ribbon packs, or won a ton of ribbons from Mystery Object. By the time I finished all the regular quests + initial and email ribbons, plus regular city collections for a week, I was at 5218 ribbons only (no ribbons spent). Or are you counting the ribbons that you've won opening presents? The 350/5600 numbers are for pure input, actual number of ribbons spent would be higher because you win some back.

Yes, I included all ribbons I had gotten up to finishing all the regular quests, so 4800 for quests + 100 for newsletter + one vv chest for 150 + maybe 750 as prizes from presents + between 10 and 15 shuffles + a couple of 2x in there for ribbons and I am still 21 bricks short of a maxed building. I have used at least 6000 ribbons by now.

 

[ET-inf3rno]

All I can say is WOW! So many pages of unhappy players. Do you think they will get a clue? I sincerely doubt it I'm thinking when they switched around our Elvenar team they decided to plug in as much as possible from FoE instead of doing anything new and/or improved for Elvenar. Even though I am not a fan of another game being discussed on this forum, this time I'm glad to have read that FoE players don't like this event set up either. So I'm gathering that Inno just doesn't give a damn whether players like what they plop into our game. They appear to have an agenda to erode development by taking a one size fits all path. I won't even go into my disdain for the Spire that apparently came from FoE. Players' enjoyment of the game be damned I'm really sad to see this game that I loved becoming such a cluster of frustration!

At least tourney got better with the phoenix and the bears. I can compete again for the first place, which was impossible for many months before these events. I like the evolving buildings concept too. The pet food not so much, but I can cover the demands more or less. So it is not just bad.

This specific event is bad though. Btw. the hammering does not seem random. When I click 3 times on the middle of the button fast, then I use to get 2-3 bricks, when I click only once, then I use to get mostly 1 brick. I am not sure if this is intentional, but it looks like it happens this way. Maybe it is just cognitive bias, I did not count average for the 2 methods. The gift opening does not seem random either, at least I play in 7 cities and in most of the cities I found the igloo in the left bottom corner at first. I am not sure if they precalculate the positions, or it is just the poor quality random number generator the devs use, but that did not seem a coincidence either. On previous events I use to get 3-4 willows in row sometimes, and after that nothing for 10 mins, so I bet the random number generator they use is far from perfect...

 

[ET-inf3rno]

Just because premium players can buy magic residences does not necessarily place them at a large advantage over free players. The Venar's Rocks III of this past summer had a very significant influence on what free players could achieve. But now with magic residences being offered in the spire, the gap is closing; and magic workshops are starting to make little sense in the late chapters, especially chapter 15 where the supply production is significantly buffed and the main prouduction shifts from standard goods to sentient goods.

Idk what to say. I have 4 magic residences in my biggest city and I keep them only for extra coin production, so I don't need to use instants that much. In my other city I have zero magic residences, but I can cover the coin demands with a level 21 GA, instants and event buildings. I have zero normal residences or workshops in my big cities and I will get rid of them in my small cities too, it just takes time to collect enough diamonds to cover everything. I keep my magic workshops for some extra supply and for the events, but again I have 4 magic workshops in my S city and 8 in my C city and even 2 would be enough to cover the supply demands with the high level PT and EE I have. It is good to have a few of these magic buildings, because with pop+cult hybrids you will get max culture bonus levels, so you can really exploit these buildings on events and sell the extra resources in the wholesaler. Even without VR3 it was possible to achieve this, it started with the fields of gold and phoenix cult buildings. Now the igloo and the winter star gives relative good pop, but low culture. Still they are better buildings than normal residences, which use up culture instead of giving it and require road connection... Since we have the wishing wells, we don't really have to pay for magic buildings, just telling you... You don't have to thank that I tell my secrets.

 

[Black watch]

Winter Star!!

Yay! Blue flame! Frozen Tree Stump... Yay! (looks to the floor in disgust)
Well, I'm glad you got the star... truely... but for me... I've got 2 artifacts, a ton of single bricks and a boat load of crap...

After year and a bit of playing this will be first event I'm sitting out. Grand Prize is nothing inpsiring I want (no biggie - just my own choice there). But more importantly they've ruined the fun of events even further then autumn by ruining chances of getting a daily prize. So really no point in participating at all.

What kills me is these changes they are making appear to have no bearing on trying to convert non-diamond players to diamond players, rather strictly penalizing active players to make it more fair against either new players or casual players. I guess the most active players are not their most lucrative???

Totally agree... it's mind boggling the extent of the disconnect from reality the developers have with the game and players. Since when is totally random (tongue in cheek) figure into how this game is played and a person's strategy in developing it. Short answer--- it's punitive and not enjoyable. Thinking back, I can actually remember events I liked... why change?
My buddy who has hot rods works on his finished car show caliber cars even though they don't need the tinkering. He says to me, "I work on them until they break, so I can fix them again." I keep wondering when INNO is going to stop tinkering and fix what they've screwed up.

Congrats Inno. I didn't think an event could be worse than the last one. You've proven me wrong. I'm not even trying, just playing like normal. The prizes are nearly impossible to choose like they've been previously. There's a vastly reduced chance of getting multiples of anything I want, and the "grand prizes" and evolving building are a joke.

Took the words out of my mouth... the only thing I can add, and it's been said so many times now, "it's pure crap... and unpleasant to play."

As for the actual event, unlike the previous events with "random" quests, I haven not bothered to track which quests I am getting or in which order. I have not kept track of any of the random elements of this event, whether number of bricks or which prizes or how often I hit dailies or shuffles part the first two days. All I know is while there are a few dailies I would like more than one of, with this system, that seems unlikely to do, so I have just been using my ribbons and hammers as I get them. That has resulted in me working on the 10th grand prize right now, on the 5th day of the event. I am well into the second batch of "random" quests, but not into the bonus quests yet. I think my current quest is worth 46 ribbons. No diamonds or money spent, but a decent number of time boosts and PP and MM enchantments used so far.

Surprised and even jealous of your ability to move through this event... I've tried to get multiples and just got more crap I don't need. What I really wanted was time boosts and the odd daily prize offered. Not lucky I guess...

They mentioned on the Facebook live chat today that this event was suppose to get us out of our comfort zone and make us learn new strategies. What type of strategy do you use on a Vegas slot machine style event? I am thankful they have lots of quests but if you have the dumbest luck out there, how are we to even have a chance when the bonus quests are harder/more time consuming and give way less ribbons. They should come right out and say "yes we made a slot machine event." I would still not like it but at least it would be honest. So the new strategy is to roll the dice.

In reponse to the bold highlighted text... I've rarely heard of something in this sort of context that sounded this stupid.

You are so right. What they are trying to do, is not known.... most folks seem to think INNO is trying to piss off their player base based on the remarks... I have to say, it looks that way.
I know one thing. I'm pissed off that the game I used to like has devolved to this unpleasant tedious luck of the draw type game. It's exactly why I don't go to Tahoe, Vegas or to any other gambling town to loose my hard earned money... I wanted something enjoyable that I could craft and work in the game parameters, but those parameters are stretching too far off the mark now... I'll probably be joining the others in my provences that have latelly quit... INNO seems hell bent on changing for the sake of changing, the things that weren't broken and igonoring the things that need to be fixed or adjusted.