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    Your Elvenar Team

Wonder Society question

Nucklehead

New Member
On the Wonder Society spreadsheet, if the same play that is the target donates to themselves do you still put the numbers in for that players AW? Also, if someone from another FS donates to the target do you just leave the AW as not showing complete?
Thanks
 

Chriger

Member
For the first part, we record self-contributions, just remember to check if you need to override the chest rewards.

For the second part, we don't record contributions from outside the FS.
 

Momonar

Member
In our fellowship, I record all KP contributions (regardless of in or out of the fellowship). I think it is important to record self-donated KP because after all, that is one of the benefits to the wonder society is that you get proportional credit for the bonus KP earned. And it doesn't hurt anyone else at all.

Consider this scenario:
A player (target or not) self donates 900 kp out of 1000 for the wonder. 7 other people make up the last 100 kp donated. The 7 people are awarded the bonus chests and they receive the bonus KP instantly. The spreadsheet merely redistributes those bonus kp so that the net effect is the 7 people split 10% of the total bonus KP (their proportion of the contribution). The owner who did 90% of the work, gets 90% of the bonus kp credited. How is this unfair in any way?

So in the spreadsheet, their adjusted contribution may be negative, but remember, they have ALREADY received KP via AW instants. It is the same as a person who donates 5 KP to win a 10 KP bonus chest. In the wonder society, their net contribution will be -5 (or slightly greater if 5 kp is at least 1% of the total kp).

As for external contributors - the system is still fair, even if the bonus KP instant is received by someone outside.. Either the external contributor added enough KP to earn the bonus amount they received or not. If they didn't, the bonus kp they earned still gets credited to those who donated. If the did, then they received what they are entitled to, and any additional just gets accumulated to a single "external player".

I keep 2 extra columns for external contributors so that if up to 2 external players earn bonus chests, I can handle it with the least amount of fuss.
It happens rarely though since the WS encourages rapid fellowship donations. Usually only when a new player joins and their old fellowship has a lot of small donations to their wonders. In that case, what typically happens is when that wonder becomes a target, the fellowship donations far exceed any past donations (so no external contributors earn bonus chests). In that case, I just record all external kp under 1 column (provided that the total is not enough to earn a bonus chest). Having 2 columns for external contributors helps in that case a lot.
 

Momonar

Member
Oh, and another great way of initializing a new player to the wonder society is the following:


1) For any wonder with existing donations at the time the player joins the WS, count all donations as if made by the player to themselves.

This is fair because the most common way of sharing KP in fellowships that do not use the Wonder Society is with KP swap threads. Any KP a player has on their wonders is most likely an exchange of KP the player donated to someone else.
 

Augrim

New Member
Does anyone still maintain the template? I've started using it for one of my fellowships, copying the template linked from Elven Gems a couple of days ago, and on day 1 have found multiple serious bugs:

1. After running the "Update Tracking Sheets" script, chest overrides are cleared, leaving incorrect contribution amounts in the "navy blue box" that we're supposed to then copy/paste back to the Wonder Society tab. We can't copy/paste before running the script either, as this would result in incorrect contribution amounts being recorded to the tracking tabs. Somebody who doesn't notice the overrides getting cleared will unknowingly record incorrect contribution information for every single wonder upgrade that uses any chest override for the life of their Society! For the moment I'm re-entering the overrides after running the script so I can copy/paste the correct adjusted contribution amounts (then clearing the overrides before the next wonder upgrade), but it would be good to have some smoother solution, like if the script copy/pasted the correct adjusted contribution amounts somewhere before clearing the overrides, so we can copy those correct amounts back to the Wonder Society tab. If nobody has a known solution handy I'll probably work on editing the script in my copy. [Edit: OK, I can just copy the contribution amounts before running the script and then paste after running the script. That's easy enough, even if it contradicts the instructions. I had worried that the script would pollute the clipboard so this wouldn't work, but the script doesn't seem to use the clipboard.]

2. The Contribution Tracker starts on row 2, but the "Current week" row on the Wonder Society tab only pulls contributions starting from row 4 of the tracker tab. It took me quite a while to figure out why the first upgraded wonder in our Society didn't populate anything into the weekly contributions, though it was a simple fix to the formulas once I found the bug.


If anybody knows of other bugs I should watch out for, or has a pointer to a more up-to-date template than the one linked from Elven Gems, please let me know.

Just as a mildly amusing anecdote, after 3 days of spending hours and hours carefully explaining the system and recruiting members of the FS to join and setting up the spreadsheet, I about had a heart attack when I tapped on our Society's first completed wonder in the mobile app and found I couldn't access the contribution information :eek: "How on earth did this system ever work???" went through my head. Then I logged on to the web version and found I could still access the contribution information from there. Whew!
 
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Augrim

New Member
One more question I haven't seen addressed anywhere: What do you do when someone upgrades a wonder without it being recorded first? I figure it's bound to happen eventually, and I "wonder" if folks who've been running this system for a while have any good way to handle that unfortunate situation that I may not have thought of.

I figure I'd just have to message around the group and ask folks to remember approximately what they contributed and hope to get the results "close enough" to not screw things up too badly. But if there's a better way or some secret feature I don't know about to find out the contribution history I'd love to hear about it.
 

samidodamage

Buddy Fan Club member
@Augrim
I don't have any answers for you, but I'll tag @Lelanya
The original creator of ElvenGems abandoned the game and the site a while ago, and she's made a huge effort to keep the site available and update what she can there. Events/FA's come so frequently now that it's an overwhelming job just to keep those correctly updated. She does have a couple other volunteer players who try to help, but I don't know if any of them have the skills needed to repair that template. Good Luck!
 

Augrim

New Member
Yeah, it's exhausting enough just to play the game with the non-stop barrage of events and FAs... I can't even imagine maintaining Elven Gems as a solo effort!
@Augrim
I don't have any answers for you, but I'll tag @Lelanya
The original creator of ElvenGems abandoned the game and the site a while ago, and she's made a huge effort to keep the site available and update what she can there. Events/FA's come so frequently now that it's an overwhelming job just to keep those correctly updated. She does have a couple other volunteer players who try to help, but I don't know if any of them have the skills needed to repair that template. Good Luck!
 

helya

Community Manager
Elvenar Team
One more question I haven't seen addressed anywhere: What do you do when someone upgrades a wonder without it being recorded first? I figure it's bound to happen eventually, and I "wonder" if folks who've been running this system for a while have any good way to handle that unfortunate situation that I may not have thought of.

I figure I'd just have to message around the group and ask folks to remember approximately what they contributed and hope to get the results "close enough" to not screw things up too badly. But if there's a better way or some secret feature I don't know about to find out the contribution history I'd love to hear about it.
Usually, the FS has the player contact support to get the contributions. Most players only do it once or twice before they realize it's a lot of extra work for themselves.

I know there is a player that was working on fully automating the spreadsheet. I just can't link you to any outside sources, but they were in one of the independent FB groups.
 

Augrim

New Member
Usually, the FS has the player contact support to get the contributions. Most players only do it once or twice before they realize it's a lot of extra work for themselves.
Ah nice, if support will give a player the contribution info for a completed wonder upgrade that makes me feel a lot better. Thanks!
 

Lelanya

Scroll-Keeper
Ah hey. Yah, the Wonder Society was Ains' project, for sure. I don't know if anyone has taken it on or not.

Good one Helya, I didn't know Support had last level information on Wonder contributors. I remember TomatoeHu told me she folks cancel their upgrades so she could do recording ;)

EDIT: that means the Devs could allow that as a permanent display but just don't. :confused:
 

Augrim

New Member
I haven't found any other major bugs, and it's working great for our FS now, so the template is quite usable with some minor edits and workarounds.

I think the only other bug I've fixed since posting here the other day is that the date display is wrong when pulled into another cell as text (where it shows up as an integer that's probably derived from the date somehow), so I modified those cell references to parse as a date correctly.

Good one Helya, I didn't know Support had last level information on Wonder contributors. I remember TomatoeHu told me she folks cancel their upgrades so she could do recording ;)
Oh that's actually a great idea too, thanks!
 

Ariadne43

New Member
Does anyone still maintain the template? I've started using it for one of my fellowships, copying the template linked from Elven Gems a couple of days ago, and on day 1 have found multiple serious bugs:

1. After running the "Update Tracking Sheets" script, chest overrides are cleared, leaving incorrect contribution amounts in the "navy blue box" that we're supposed to then copy/paste back to the Wonder Society tab. We can't copy/paste before running the script either, as this would result in incorrect contribution amounts being recorded to the tracking tabs. Somebody who doesn't notice the overrides getting cleared will unknowingly record incorrect contribution information for every single wonder upgrade that uses any chest override for the life of their Society! For the moment I'm re-entering the overrides after running the script so I can copy/paste the correct adjusted contribution amounts (then clearing the overrides before the next wonder upgrade), but it would be good to have some smoother solution, like if the script copy/pasted the correct adjusted contribution amounts somewhere before clearing the overrides, so we can copy those correct amounts back to the Wonder Society tab. If nobody has a known solution handy I'll probably work on editing the script in my copy. [Edit: OK, I can just copy the contribution amounts before running the script and then paste after running the script. That's easy enough, even if it contradicts the instructions. I had worried that the script would pollute the clipboard so this wouldn't work, but the script doesn't seem to use the clipboard.]

2. The Contribution Tracker starts on row 2, but the "Current week" row on the Wonder Society tab only pulls contributions starting from row 4 of the tracker tab. It took me quite a while to figure out why the first upgraded wonder in our Society didn't populate anything into the weekly contributions, though it was a simple fix to the formulas once I found the bug.


If anybody knows of other bugs I should watch out for, or has a pointer to a more up-to-date template than the one linked from Elven Gems, please let me know.

Just as a mildly amusing anecdote, after 3 days of spending hours and hours carefully explaining the system and recruiting members of the FS to join and setting up the spreadsheet, I about had a heart attack when I tapped on our Society's first completed wonder in the mobile app and found I couldn't access the contribution information :eek: "How on earth did this system ever work???" went through my head. Then I logged on to the web version and found I could still access the contribution information from there. Whew!
I can't get the template I downloaded from gems of knowledge to talk to the fellowship message that I posted for targets. How do you log onto the web version?
 
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