Spire/Tournament squad size calc - we need your data! [Part 2]

[Deleted User - 4646370]

203 AW levels now (so 3 added), squad size is now 3625

Now 205 AW levels and SS 3606 (decreased because of the last techs that switched to optional.)

5 more techs researched this week, squad size is now 1119

5 more techs and SS is now 1144.

SS 6984 now with 6 more AW levels.

With 4 more AW levels (517 total) SS is 6954.

Elven city ending chapter 13 (4 mandatory techs still to be done, so M=318), 106 expansions (9 premium) and 78 AW levels --> Spire SS 1616 in first encounter

1645 now with 4 more techs.

Elven city starting chapter 14 (2 techs done, so M=324), 110 expansions (10 premium) and 65 AW levels --> Spire SS 1667 in first encounter
(All relic boosts at 700% for all cities.)

1682 now with 2 more techs.

 

[DeletedUser5371]

16 / 37 / 620 / 336 / 5316 / 132 ==> 4903 / 2177 [09/13/2020]

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

CH-16/MH-37/588(completed provinces?)/AW-216/SS-5316/131 Exp - 14 are premium/all research complete/Spire Squad - 4039 - 1794

Comparing to last week, the only thing that changed for me was AW levels. I added two, but my squad size went up 15 to 4054. So something is different from when we originally tested all this, because for me, 2 AW levels would have upped my squad by 12 or 13, as it was pretty consistent at between 6.2 and 6.5 per AW level. I can't remember if one of the new changes was that AW levels had their cost increased in the formula. Also, the event did cause me to complete three more provinces, but those are not part of the calculation any more, so that can't be it.

 

[Socrates28]

16 / 37 / 525 / 195 / 3537 / 143 : 26 premium / All mandatory research completed / 4084 / 1814 / 09/13/2020
@Enevhar Aldarion , mine also when up by 15 and I added 2 AW levels and only 1 province.
So provinces don't count as you said.
OK, this week I added 1 province and 2 AW upgrades which caused my SS to go up by 15 and the enemy to go up by 7.
Does this actually help in reducing overall losses (incrementally of course), or does it just magnify the losses more and more because of increased number of troops at risk?

 

[Deleted User - 3932582]

Comparing to last week, the only thing that changed for me was AW levels. I added two, but my squad size went up 15 to 4054. So something is different from when we originally tested all this, because for me, 2 AW levels would have upped my squad by 12 or 13, as it was pretty consistent at between 6.2 and 6.5 per AW level. I can't remember if one of the new changes was that AW levels had their cost increased in the formula. Also, the event did cause me to complete three more provinces, but those are not part of the calculation any more, so that can't be it.

This is not how calculation works. It is not additive, it is multiplicative. The further you go, the more each AW level will add. Your numbers are pretty much on point with the latest formula.

 

[Deleted User - 3932582]

...or does it just magnify the losses more and more because of increased number of troops at risk?

Yes.

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

This is not how calculation works. It is not additive, it is multiplicative. The further you go, the more each AW level will add. Your numbers are pretty much on point with the latest formula.

Is that part of the changes they are doing? I remember from the original testing when I was end of chapter 14/beginning of chapter 15, that every AW level I added during that time was worth the same amount of squad increase. Maybe the larger amount now is because I am doing it in chapter 16 instead?

 

[Deleted User - 3932582]

Is that part of the changes they are doing? I remember from the original testing when I was end of chapter 14/beginning of chapter 15, that every AW level I added during that time was worth the same amount of squad increase. Maybe the larger amount now is because I am doing it in chapter 16 instead?

It was multiplicative from the beginning. The more expansions and research you have, the more each AW level adds. E.g. chapter 4 cities would be adding <1 squad size per AW level.

 

[Socrates28]

Yes.

So the question becomes, "Do we stop adding AW levels at some point because they become totally counterproductive?" IE instead of cutting losses they only magnify them?

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

So the question becomes, "Do we stop adding AW levels at some point because they become totally counterproductive?" IE instead of cutting losses they only magnify them?

That be a different answer for each player. The difficulty of each fight is preset, whether a player's squad size is 10 or 10k. If you can make the troops to cover the losses, then you can keep going. Take my pet food and time instants away and I will make a lot less troops and be able to do a lot less fighting. With my current setup, I could add hundreds to my starting squad size and still not have to reduce my fighting.

 

[juniperknome]

now 133 expansions 12 research not finished last 2 squad size + 10 research 199 aw . filling in the squad size is not doing any harm but may be reducing the odds a bit in my favor

 

[Deleted User - 4646370]

Now 205 AW levels and SS 3606 (decreased because of the last techs that switched to optional.)

With 1 more AW level, SS 3613

5 more techs and SS is now 1144.

10 more techs (so 3 chapter 13 techs done, but still this not done semi-mandatory tech in chapter 6, so M=292), and 2 more AW levels (now 66), SS is now 1203.

With 4 more AW levels (517 total) SS is 6954.

1 more AW level increased SS to 6962.

1645 now with 4 more techs.

5 more techs (M=327 now), and 2 extra non-premium expansions, SS is now 1717.

1682 now with 2 more techs.

2 more techs (M=328 now) and SS is now 1698.

 

[Socrates28]

16 / 37 / 525 / 199 / 3537 / 143 : 26 premium / All mandatory research completed / 4116 / 1828 / 09/20/2020

 

[Deleted User - 3932582]

16 / 37 / 525 / 199 / 3537 / 143 : 26 premium / All mandatory research completed / 4116 / 1828 / 09/20/2020

Do you by any chance have SS Upgrade 16 tech (from the Dwarves) NOT researched?

 

[Socrates28]

Do you by any chance have SS Upgrade 16 tech (from the Dwarves) NOT researched?

No it is researched and activated as is the City Expansion 22 following it.

 

[DeletedUser5371]

16 / 37 / 621 / 337 / 5316 / 132 >>> 4910 / 2181 [09/20/2020]

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

Comparing to last week, the only thing that changed for me was AW levels. I added two, but my squad size went up 15 to 4054. So something is different from when we originally tested all this, because for me, 2 AW levels would have upped my squad by 12 or 13, as it was pretty consistent at between 6.2 and 6.5 per AW level. I can't remember if one of the new changes was that AW levels had their cost increased in the formula. Also, the event did cause me to complete three more provinces, but those are not part of the calculation any more, so that can't be it.

Compared to last week, I added 3 more AW levels and had a 22-point increase, so end of chapter 16 increase is staying between 7.2 and 7.5 points per AW level for me, compared to two chapters previous, when it was 6.2 to 6.5 per AW level. So end of each chapter, from 14 to 15 to 16, increased the per AW level value by about half a point for me? Would that mean if I did not add a single AW level in chapter 17, my squad size would still increase by that .5 per AW level, just because I have them? Or am I looking at this math totally wrong?

 

[Deleted User - 3932582]

Compared to last week, I added 3 more AW levels and had a 22-point increase, so end of chapter 16 increase is staying between 7.2 and 7.5 points per AW level for me, compared to two chapters previous, when it was 6.2 to 6.5 per AW level. So end of each chapter, from 14 to 15 to 16, increased the per AW level value by about half a point for me? Would that mean if I did not add a single AW level in chapter 17, my squad size would still increase by that .5 per AW level, just because I have them? Or am I looking at this math totally wrong?

Every chapter increases costs by ~20% due to research component. So if you keep your AW levels and placed expansions the same, and only complete another chapter, then incremental cost for your extra AW level will go up by about 20%. So after chapter 17 - if you keep everything else the same - your incremental AW level cost would be closer to 9.

 

[Deleted User - 4750465]

Every chapter increases costs by ~20% due to research component. So if you keep your AW levels and placed expansions the same, and only complete another chapter, then incremental cost for your extra AW level will go up by about 20%. So after chapter 17 - if you keep everything else the same - your incremental AW level cost would be closer to 9.

Not sure where exactly to put this comment.

Something seems different this week with the Tourney. Chapter 7, 61 Expansions, 1k next Premium, 1 Research, 41 AW levels, 700% max. My squad size for Province 18 4* is 316 and your spreadsheet calculates to 1,508.

 

[samidodamage]

Something seems different this week with the Tourney

This thread is collecting data on Spire squad sizes, not tourney. The tourney on live servers has a totally different squad size calculation. The new tourney structure being tested on beta and en servers is a much closer calculation to the one for the Spire, but live servers other than en are not there yet.