Forbidden Ruins Discussion Thread

[crackie]

They are entitled to choose any business model they like for Elvenar, and to change it as they see it fit whenever they want.

I am perfectly fine with this. My problem is don’t then tell us in the Q&A or wherever that the Inno Central Bank isn’t tightening event currency and still claiming regular players can get all the buildings and evolves if they just did all the quests.

 

[Stardew]

No one is forcing anyone to do anything. With these events and event buildings, players are being lured to spend their money. Just as we are lured to spend our money on every offer we see on billboards or in commercials. The question whether capitalism is moral seems to be an ongoing debate and it's hard to find a definitive answer.

The premise of pay-to-play and pay-to-win are more pertinent to this discussion than capitalism. I concur with your opinion to a certain extent. No one is “forcing” you to win, but if you want to, you HAVE to spend diamonds. I am a proponent of giving game shops money for continued content. This model of pay2win, however, is awful.

I encourage Inno product managers to look at the model RuneScape uses for members. You've somewhat started a battle/membership pass but it’s not worth it (especially when you are not guaranteed a full set of event building even after loyally completing every quest) … I would gladly pay a monthly membership fee if I had access to more content and buildings to make it worthwhile. The great thing about that model is if you play religiously and grind in that game, you can purchase a monthly membership pass from in game currency which you’ve acquired by putting in the hours. There’s a CHOICE of paying to play membership content or playing long enough to be able to achieve the same goal with in game currency.

 

[BrinDarby]

Never has an League event been this low on points.
they took away multiples of moonestone to get CCs) and
then making them pay only basically ?? Not only that, if
you're following the league #s, this might be 1st event
where Silver is < 260.... Top 5% not getting the full set.

Then you get a bldg @least for Silver, but its not the last
in the set, so you're still scrooo'd getting the set. Silver
should give that last piece incase, as we see, currency
is nerf'd so much even silver doesn't hit 260.

I never was here when there was a pay-wall to almost
everything, and thats the road we are going down again
it seems.

I have said and will say 20% ( Bronze ) should hit 260,
and complete all Tasks. thats the most currency needs
to be Nerf'd down to...... There is NO loss of revenue as
far as SIlver/Gold goes, even if Bronze hits 260.

 

[Tehya1]

I am perfectly fine with this. My problem is don’t then tell us in the Q&A or wherever that the Inno Central Bank isn’t tightening event currency and still claiming regular players can get all the buildings and evolves if they just did all the quests.

This. Its about that elvenar news pop up that I posted saying "just do all of the quests and play the board, and you will get the full set". That is grossly misleading, and that is what ticks me off. I get the chance factor with the dailies and other chest prizes, but inno leads us all to believe the set can be won by most players without diamonds through their marketing of the event, including the Q&A.

 

[Moho]

The premise of pay-to-play and pay-to-win are more pertinent to this discussion than capitalism. I concur with your opinion to a certain extent. No one is “forcing” you to win, but if you want to, you HAVE to spend diamonds. I am a proponent of giving game shops money for continued content. This model of pay2win, however, is awful.

Do you seriously propose that we, the beneficiary of the product, advise its creators on how to carry out their business?

 

[Lelanya]

Do you seriously propose that we, the beneficiary of the product, advise its creators on how to carry out their business?

This Forum is for feedback. The Devs say they want our opinions. I happen to agree with those expressing their disappointment.
There should be some way to grab enough SK without buying EC in some form. About one third of my cities have won about a third of the needed SK, while the others are having the same luck as my Beta city. To be clear I didn't get the full set, and I expect to miss widely on live as well.

 

[Moho]

This Forum is for feedback. The Devs say they want our opinions. I happen to agree with those expressing their disappointment.

Yes, it is for feedback. But I don't think they want any advice on how they should carry out their business.

In my opinion this feedback helps them to constantly think, rethink and adjust their strategy so that they will maximize their profit.

For instance, they launch an event set whose last piece can barely be obtained without spending one's diamonds (while they declare the set can be perfectly won by anyone who plays the game regularly). There will be a lot of disgruntled players, of course, people who become highly frustrated because it looks they won't be able to get the set for free. Their anger won't worry Inno too much because most of these people aren't planning to resort to their wallets anyway. Inno's real target are those who will panic and use their credit cards to secure the last piece of the set. Once the payments have been done and the event has passed, Inno can easily make the last piece of the set available to everyone during a FA or on a different occasion and say they had been planning this all along: "We told you that any regular player could get the full set, didn't we?"

At the end of the day it is the turnover, and not the feedback in the Forum, that guides Inno's decisions.

 

[BrinDarby]

Yes, it is for feedback. But I don't think they want any advice on how they should carry out their business.

Hypothetical A .... 500 ppl/month pay in $100
Hypothetical B ....5000 ppl/month pay in $12
Why can't feedback highlight that B is the most revenue ???
Why can't players highlight proven stratagies for almost anything ??

How much more can we take when 95% of a poll is in favor
of say .... offering Spacely Sprockets for diamonds....
What then does Inno sell with diamonds ?? Cogswell Cogs .

 

[Aritra]

Forgive me for not taking the time to reread several pages of thread(s)... I'm hoping someone knows offhand:
Is there a diagram somewhere that shows the arrangement of the set pieces that is both optimal in value (connections) and land efficiency?

 

[Sprite1313]

Forgive me for not taking the time to reread several pages of thread(s)... I'm hoping someone knows offhand:
Is there a diagram somewhere that shows the arrangement of the set pieces that is both optimal in value (connections) and land efficiency?

Not fancy, but that shows the layout. Each of the 3x2s need two connections. The Dragon Tamer (4x2) needs three connections.

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

View attachment 11845

Not fancy, but that shows the layout. Each of the 3x2s need two connections. The Dragon Tamer (4x2) needs three connections.

You rotated your image 45 degrees the wrong way. I always rotate everything to the left in my head, which would make your vertical buildings horizontal and the horizontal ones vertical.

 

[sputnik9009]

Do you seriously propose that we, the beneficiary of the product, advise its creators on how to carry out their business?

A capitalist company will never listen to their customers, for their business model is firmly rooted and will not waiver. Bottom line here is money.
A compassionate company will listen to their customers as they believe that there is always something to learn and be made aware of change. Bottom line here is repeat customers and word of mouth advertising, which is a very solid business model foundation.

Which company is Elvenar or Inno?
Which company can you work with?
Which company do you want to work with?
Which company are you?
Think for a while
peace be with you

 

[Aritra]

thanks @Sprite1313 and @Enevhar Aldarion

 

[Stardew]

Do you seriously propose that we, the beneficiary of the product, advise its creators on how to carry out their business?

Yes, I work for a tech company. We Customer feedback and actually transform our product based on customer feedback.

 

[Moho]

We ♥ Customer feedback and actually transform our product based on customer feedback.

It must be a small company, to which I wish all the best. Once more money comes into play, things will change just like what happened to Google when they started shoveling billions of dollars and "Don't be evil" became less important than money.

 

[BrinDarby]

@helya ,
As a player and volunteer CM , if you can , can I ask your opinion
of why the Silver League prize from F.Ruins.... isn't... the 5th GP ( @ 260 ) ?
or @least a pick-ur-prize, like from Manor ? ( incase Silver doesn't even reach 260 )

What would be really interesting but will never happen, would be to see info on :
# of players total , # of players complete'n all tasks , # of players reaching 260.

Up untill now, Silver on all live worlds has reached over 260, usually to 280 or 300.
By the current numbers, it will be a stretch if all 8 worlds Silver hits 260.
Its bad enough when Bronze (top 20%) can't hit 260, but if Silver (top 5%) can't either,
what does that say about the calculation of total currency available ??

 

[Myne]

My turn to offer an opinion.
I am pretty disgusted that I will be almost 40 short of getting the final building and portrait. I have played this event hard and yes, I purchased SK.
So, even if you spend money you ain't gettin' that building.
Devs need to think and think again and finally think a third time cuz this is not the way to keep steady contributing players.

Edit: In my opinion (cuz yall know how I hate math) if you play the event like I did. (It's a really good set) it would probably take between 80 and 100 usd to complete the set. That's conservative because I play off and on all day every day. I don't know what universe that developer is living in but his statement that anyone should be able to complete the event is a load of horse pucky.

 

[Moho]

Devs need to think and think again and finally think a third time cuz this is not the way to keep steady contributing players.

I agree, but have you ever thought that they're pushing it as a way to test players' reactions? Planning a business strategy is more rigorous than Hindu meditation. It involves gathering data. And you best observe a patient's symptoms while he or she goes through an attack - that's when a doctor can best diagonse the situation. It may be painful for the patient, of course, but it will be revealing for those who are supposed to make a decision. Every customer, and even constituent, in this society is a Guinea Pig to a larger extent than we may expect. What can people do after all? Quit playing and finding a different form of escapism? So what? Investors don't really care because they own shares in other games and businesses as well.

You can check out any time you want, but you can never leave.

 

[Myne]

I agree, but have you ever thought that they're pushing it as a way to test players' reactions? Planning a business strategy is more rigorous than Hindu meditation. It involves gathering data. And you best observe a patient's symptoms while he or she goes through an attack - that's when a doctor can best diagonse the situation. It may be painful for the patient, of course, but it will be revealing for those who are supposed to make a decision. Every customer, and even constituent, in this society is a Guinea Pig to a larger extent than we may expect. What can people do after all? Quit playing and finding a different form of escapism? So what? Investors don't really care because they own shares in other games and businesses as well.

You can check out any time you want, but you can never leave.

If this was a test, it's a poor one. If you want GOOD data, then you perform the test on average situations. Then you gather all that data and brainstorm your way to the goal you seek. All of that while taking into consideration the consequences of your decisions. That way you know if you offer something valuable you will get superior results.
I have tested more theories than I care to think about, so I am aware we perform to produce data.
I know well the consequences of solely relying on numbers to run a people centric business too.

 

[Moho]

If this was a test, it's a poor one. If you want GOOD data, then you perform the test on average situations. Then you gather all that data and brainstorm your way to the goal you seek. All of that while taking into consideration the consequences of your decisions. That way you know if you offer something valuable you will get superior results.
I have tested more theories than I care to think about, so I am aware we perform to produce data.
I know well the consequences of solely relying on numbers to run a people centric business too.

If the conclusion is that they're poor businesspeople, what makes Forum members believe that their reactions can lead to any improvements?