Spire frustrations ~

[muffy.]

If it was just me , I’d grin and bare it but it’s not …
The Spire I admit I disliked it in the beginning. Several of my peeps liked it which forced me as the Archmage to learn to like it . It was a struggle to say the least but I proved to myself it wasn’t all that bad . As time progressed several members got better and excited about the rewards. Then they start giving the Dwarven Armory as a reward…. every week sometimes 2 or 3 . With that and Twilight being feed it made the Spire a lot more bearable and exciting and fun . It got everyone involved.
Now the past 3 weeks you are lucky to get a DA . You don’t get a Magic anything unless you are newer to the Spire .. and the same with the teleports …fewer and fewer are seen. Which to me is really really insane … we are coming upon another FA..people need those to have room to play it
I guess I just don’t see the point in making something to help people be successful then take it away.
It’s hard as an Archmage to get 24 people motivated enough to try and be successful without tools …. to me the DA and Twilight gave reason it was an awesome tool .
I’m not the type to thow in the towel on anyone or anything so I won’t … I can easily say to my peeps , don’t play it if you don’t want too.
But … I can’t . I want them to be excited and feel that success they had before . My FS consists of … well … geez , no one’s under 50 , oldest is 80 . Most have been there for 7 years . It takes a bit at times to get them going but when they do they do it remarkably .
So tell me .. how do I get them inSPIREd again ?
We as a whole don’t need the Spire to keep going… really ..I know eventually they will throw rewards in there that are a must for most … so it’s good for them to become successful… unless I am wrong for thinking so … I’m open to thoughts…and I thank you in advance ~

 

[crackie]

 

[Blueriven]

The reason why you all do not win teleports in spire is because I win them all!
At the moment I have 183.
But in all the time I won just one genie. In my other cities I have Genies to place for the next 2 years.
In my Big city it took nearly a year to win a magic workshop. Number two and three came in less than a month.

So it's trying every week and hoping not to get the 10 % Portal profit ( I get them too often at the moment)

 

[Deborah M]

@muffy. I agree with your observation. I hated the spire when it started! Over time I did start doing it to the top for the sake of my fellowship. Several others started going to the top. Recently I started hearing more often how much it wasn’t worth the resources. We are back to silver with most doing 1 level. I agree that it just isn’t worth the aggravation to me. The cost in resources isn’t worth the return. I have always felt like it is a treadmill spending as much if not more than we get in return.

@crackie Almost everybody in my FS negotiate so their net gain in diamonds isn‘t all that. I would rather spend a bit of $ for diamonds than to feel like a slave to the spire.

 

[Yavimaya]

I got 3 Ashen artifacts and 1 DA and diamonds so far in the spire this week. Last week got teleport and 3 DAs. Even without those the diamonds alone every week and all of the instants help my city greatly and I rely on them a TON. That is just me though. I seem to love all the rewards. Even when I don't get what I want I'm still getting a ton of stuff that I would not be able to afford to craft. Plus obviously all the spell frags and ccs make it even more worth it to me.

 

[Myne]

I am gonna throw this out there....I am sick unto death of portal profit gifts. I have waaay too many. The way they are throwing them out there it's like they don't care if you actually work the chapters. I just finished chapter 14 almost exclusively on pp's and am still swimming in them. The dwarven armorers are like hens teeth now, and a magic building is cause for a screen shot and writing on the calendar.

 

[samidodamage]

@muffy. Tackle it from a different angle.
Maybe try looking at it in reverse? For example "What things would my city be missing if the Spire and everything that comes with it went away tomorrow?" Assume everything that is either only available in the Spire or greatly enhanced by rewards gotten in the Spire went away or were severely reduced:
#1 Diamonds (lol, @crackie): Spire is what lets everyone get a premium city without spending a dime. <I stole that line from someone else on here, but now I don't remember who
It's the diamonds given as both individual rewards and FS rewards as well as other rewards that allow more of other activities (like crafting) that also have diamonds given as rewards.
#2 Crafting supplies: way fewer Spell Fragments and Combining Catalysts. On SF's players would be limited to Moonstone Library, disenchanting, or the tiny amount of these given as event rewards. CC's are as limited if not more so than SF's. Most players already produce solely CC's in their MA's even with other sources. Those other sources (some event bldgs, AW's) For those who struggle with having enough pet food: think about not being able to craft it when it does show up because you don't have the needed ingredients for the recipe.
#3 Magic Houses and Workshops: You may not be getting many, but these going away as direct rewards added to the disappearance of diamonds directly from Spire. Couple with less crafting so fewer Mystery Object chances at diamond rewards and the only way you'd get a premium city without waiting a decade would be by spending real money.
#4 Temporary Military Boost Bldgs: no more Dwarven Armorers, but also less ability to keep crafting the other military boost bldgs resulting in more expensive tournaments/map encounters for fighters as well as for the more common hybrid cities who mix cater/fighting in a variety of ways. For me, this also translates to fewer supplies. I tend to use these bldgs as additional 'supply instants' after they expire. It's usually to push through a few more troops, completing the vicious circle, lol! I expect vicious circles; it's fun trying to work them into standard game play, lol!
#5 Teleport Spells: Way fewer of these; just a few from event rewards if there were no Spire. These allow me to play the game in a way that fits for me, my schedule and my life. Being able to swap bldgs back and forth from inventory based on my needs: wonderful. Being able to mold the game to fit my life instead of the other way around: priceless!
I could go on, lol! Cities just reaching the guest races need those extra PP's and the Trading Station that makes them; they don't get any until they unlock Ch6, so no stockpiles available. They are booby prizes to me: I think I have enough to get through any guest race chapter for the next 5 chapters at least...
With cities running on no houses, I've recently smiled when I win a coin rain in the Spire, lol. The coin rain purge of the July 2022 FA convinced me I never have enough coin rains! I spent hundreds of them, and even though I've got hundreds left, I'll not take them for granted, no sir, lol!

Edit to add: Consistency is key afaic. I've been tracking my diamond winnings since March 2022. 2 cities, one in weekly Gold Spire FS, the other in a Silver that's now getting Gold every 3-4 weeks. Some weeks/months have been slim, some have been outrageously high. The week of 7/18-7/25/22 for example I won 3245 diamonds. The ~1month from 6/15-7/11/22 I won not much more than that one week at 3870. The average monthly diamonds won as of Aug 23rd is 5583/month. Split equally between cities, that would be 2791 per city, but obviously the Gold Spire one actually generates more diamonds.

 

[Cleo7311]

Or have the reward lists gotten cluttered up? Like the Academy? In the beginning, both had fairly simple reward lists, then they got more stuff added. Or do they limit the big rewards to the highest reaches now? Or are there good days/times to do the Spire?

 

[Zoof]

Or have the reward lists gotten cluttered up? Like the Academy? In the beginning, both had fairly simple reward lists, then they got more stuff added. Or do they limit the big rewards to the highest reaches now? Or are there good days/times to do the Spire?

The rewards from Spire are not complicated, even though it might seem so. When you look at the offerings from a top-down view, it gets much easier to see the patterns.

Notes:
1C: One crystal. 2C: Two Crystal/midboss. 3C: Three crystal/floorboss.
XX%MC : Percent chance of a mystery chest

Floor 1 Area 1:
1C 10%MC: 20% (??) supply, 20% 2CC, 60% 500 frags
1C 10%MC: 25% 2h boost, 35% 5h boost, 40% 1000 frags
1C 10%MC: 20% (15%)coins, 20% 1250 frags, 60% 3x1h boost
2C 20%MC: 15% (10%)portal, 30% 15 Diamonds, 55% Teleport
Floor 1 Area 2:
1C 10%MC: 20% (15%)supply, 20% 3CC, 60% 500 frags
1C 10%MC: 25% 2h boost, 35% 5h boost, 40% 1000 frags
1C 10%MC: 20% (15%)coins, 20% 1250 frags, 60% 3x1h boost
2C 20%MC: 5% artifact, 10% (20%)supply, 20% 20 Diamonds, 65% 5x2h boost
Floor 1 Area 3:
1C 10%MC: 20% (15%)supply, 20% 3CC, 60% 500 frags
1C 10%MC: 25% 2h boost, 35% 5h boost, 40% 1000 frags
1C 10%MC: 20% (15%)coins, 20% 1250 frags, 60% 3x1h boost
2C 20%MC: 5% artifact, 10% (20%)coins, 30% 20 Diamonds, 55% 2000 frags
Floor 1 Area 4:
1C 10%MC: 20% (15%)supply, 20% 3CC, 60% 500 frags
1C 10%MC: 25% 2h boost, 35% 5h boost, 40% 1000 frags
1C 10%MC: 20% (15%)coins, 20% 1250 frags, 60% 3x1h boost
3C 30%MC: 10% DArmorer, 10% Artifact, 10% MResidence, 30% (10%)portal, 40% 50 Diamonds

Floor 2 Area 1:
1C 10%MC: 20% (15%)supply, 20% 3CC, 60% 500 frags
1C 10%MC: 25% 2h boost, 35% 5h boost, 40% 1000 frags
1C 10%MC: 20% (15%)coins, 20% 1250 frags, 60% 3x1h boost
2C 20%MC: 15% (10%)portal, 30% 15 diamonds, 55% Teleport
Floor 2 Area 2:
1C 10%MC: 20% (15%)supply, 20% 3CC, 60% 500 frags
1C 10%MC: 25% 2h boost, 35% 5h boost, 40% 1000 frags
1C 10%MC: 20% (15%)coins, 20% 1250 frags, 60% 3x1h boost
2C 20%MC: [UV] 5% artifact, 10% (20%)supply, 20% 20 Diamonds, 65% 5x2h boost
Floor 2 Area 3:
1C 10%MC: 20% (15%)supply, 20% 3CC, 60% 500 frags
1C 10%MC: 25% 2h boost, 35% 5h boost, 40% 1000 frags
1C 10%MC: 20% (15%)coins, 20% 1250 frags, 60% 3x1h boost
2C 20%MC: 5% artifact, 10% (20%)coins, 30% 20 Diamonds, 55% 2000 frags
Floor 2 Area 4:
1C 10%MC: 20% (15%)supply, 20% 3CC, 60% 500 frags
1C 10%MC: 25% 2h boost, 35% 5h boost, 40% 1000 frags
1C 10%MC: 20% (15%)coins, 20% 1250 frags, 60% 3x1h boost
3C 30%MC: 5% MWorkshop, 10% Artifact, 10% TStation, 30% (10%)portal, 45% (75?) Diamonds

Floor 3 Area 1:
1C 10%MC: 20% (15%)supply, 20% 3CC, 60% 500 frags
1C 10%MC: 25% 2h boost, 35% 5h boost, 40% 1000 frags
1C 10%MC: 20% (15%)coins, 20% 1250 frags, 60% 3x1h boost
2C 20%MC: 15% (10%)portal, 30% 15 diamonds, 55% Teleport
Floor 3 Area 2:
1C 10%MC: 20% (15%)supply, 20% 3CC, 60% 500 frags
1C 10%MC: 25% 2h boost, 35% 5h boost, 40% 1000 frags
1C 10%MC: 20% (15%)coins, 20% 1250 frags, 60% 3x1h boost
2C 20%MC: 5% artifact, 10% (20%)supply, 20% 20 Diamonds, 65% 5x2h boost
Floor 3 Area 3:
1C 10%MC: 20% (15%)supply, 20% 3CC, 60% 500 frags
1C 10%MC: 25% 2h boost, 35% 5h boost, 40% 1000 frags
1C 10%MC: 20% (15%)coins, 20% 1250 frags, 60% 3x1h boost
2C 20%MC: 5% artifact, 10% (20%)coins, 30% 20 Diamonds, 55% 5 sips
Floor 3 Area 4:
1C 10%MC: 20% (15%)supply, 20% 3CC, 60% 500 frags
1C 10%MC: 25% 2h boost, 35% 5h boost, 40% 1000 frags
1C 10%MC: 20% (15%)coins, 20% 1250 frags, 60% 3x1h boost
3C 30%MC: 5% Artifact, 10% Genie, 20% DArmorer, 20% (25%)portal, 45% 125 diamonds

Other chests:
Purple MC: 10% Genie, 30% (50%)portal, 30% 3 Teleports, 30% artifact
Gold MC:   10% Artifact, 20% DArmorer, 20% (50%)portal, 50% 2x8h boost
Blue MC  : 10% (20%)supply, 10% (20%)coins, 15% (15%)portal, 25% 3CC, 40% 3x5h boost

Below chapter 6, portal profits will instead be supply instants*. I also ought to pay more attention to what the very first guy is offering, but their face is so very punchable. Too difficult to resist. I haven't been able to observe exactly what boost he drops because I always forget to check, and by the time I remember, the guy's already roadkill

* - I think. I'll see if I can verify that when I get my ch5 city (Zoof, Third of His Name) up onto a fresh floor, but it would explain how I can run a chapter 7-8 city (Zoof, Second of His Name) at a steep supply deficit. The first time it happened in chapter 6 (Zoof, Second of His Name), I took a peek and wondered where the heck all those supply instants came from.

 

[jelazar]

I am gonna throw this out there....I am sick unto death of portal profit gifts. I have waaay too many. The way they are throwing them out there it's like they don't care if you actually work the chapters. I just finished chapter 14 almost exclusively on pp's and am still swimming in them. The dwarven armorers are like hens teeth now, and a magic building is cause for a screen shot and writing on the calendar.

The Coin Rain Survival sign is the greatest ever invented in human history. Made my day!

 

[crackie]

@crackie Almost everybody in my FS negotiate so their net gain in diamonds isn‘t all that. I would rather spend a bit of $ for diamonds than to feel like a slave to the spire.

I catered everything until Orcs chapter and I still cater half of the Spire. If I used diamonds, it would only be at the end gates of each section in the Lab and maybe Frog boss at the end of High Halls if I'm desperate. The rest of the Spire is easy enough to solve catering without needing diamonds. Worst case scenario, that's 5 encounters that I would need diamonds. I rarely need to use diamonds on all 5 encounters though so it averages to a pretty decent diamond haul. Now I cater half of Gateway and all of High Halls, and fight the whole Lab section to ensure 100% diamond profit.

For catering, I find you just have to make your city sustainable for the Spire. Once it's sustainable, it'll remain sustainable because you'll know what it takes. For the FS in which I am AM, I tell my crew to do that first. Prioritize Spire and don't worry too much about tourney. Stay to first 5 Provinces of tourney until you get your Spire legs in shape and then expand out your tournament participation. I do enough tourney to hold down the fort for 5 players' fair share of a blueprint. I can't hold down fort for someone's fair share of Gold Spire though. Those of us that can do more tourney provide space for the newer Spire climbers to learn how to climb.

---
Like @samidodamage and @Yavimaya, I'll also take all the prizes given out by the Spire. Once people have "too much" of something, Inno likes to throw a curveball, like with Runes and Coin Rains. One day, Portal Profits and Winter Lampions will have its day!!! Then I'll hire a plane to fly around these parts with a sign that says, "I told you so! HAHAHAHAHA"

 

[Deborah M]

@crackie I do agree that I get more diamonds than I spend. Smaller cities don’t seem to do as well in my FS. Heck, I could easily battle up it but would rather keep my troops for tournaments. That seems to be the consensus in my FS. Different priorities for different players. I do want to point out that even doing silver I am always surprised by how high we rank when I think to look at that tab. Seems that on the forum one gets the impression gold in the Spire is more popular than the real stats.

 

[samidodamage]

Seems that on the forum one gets the impression gold in the Spire is more popular than the real stats.

I absolutely agree! I also remember convos like this one about 10chest tourney FS's. When you looked at tourney rankings then, 10chest FS's were as rare as Gold Spire FS's are now. I swear you could change out the 'Gold Spire' for '10chest tourney' and this is coming along the same way. It basically boils down to the same thing, too: getting 25 (+ or -) people who agree to do the same thing as well as to actually do it week in and week out is the problem. Players develop a strategy to build their city to sustain their costs of doing whatever it is they want to do every week. Sometimes they balk (or at least I do) when something else is thrown in that messes with their carefully constructed system. Learning the Spire and tweaking my city building strategy to accommodate it was not a painless process, lol! I get set in my ways pretty quickly. I was able to recognize the benefits explained by others whose opinions I trusted, so I kept at it and am glad I did.

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

Seems that on the forum one gets the impression gold in the Spire is more popular than the real stats.

And people on the forum, and the Facebook group, seem to make it like Gold Spire fellowships are easy to find and make and that there are hundreds of them per server, when that it very far from the truth. Even after the addition of the Perks, the US Arendyll server still averages under 20 fellowships making Gold in a given week, there were 19 last week, out of hundreds of active fellowships. What is worse are the ones who somehow got into Gold fellowships on multiple servers and then act like anyone can do it. And worst of all are the few players who have alts in the same Gold fellowship, stealing spots from other legit players.

 

[Deborah M]

@Enevhar Aldarion I totally agree even if I’m not doing gold level at this time. I was aware of a FS rotating alts in just for the spire and then out to build goods from trades. I gave an imaginary thumbs up when Elvenar changed requirements to participate in the spire. I am generally a mind my own business player but things like that annoy me.

 

[quin629]

What is worse are the ones who somehow got into Gold fellowships on multiple servers and then act like anyone can do it.

Maybe because anyone can do it? Stands to reason that if a player sees value to their game style to have a constant stream of gold rewards, they are going to look for that in any server where they have a city. Big or small. They work at joining an existing Gold FS or at helping an almost-there FS get there too.

Gold Spire FSs are not limited to the top ranking FSs in each world, so even small cities can find one to join. Members of Gold Spire FSs face the same real world issues that members of all FSs do = FSs are almost constantly recruiting. The only real difference is that the Gold Spire FS is selecting in large part for players who are interested in being in a Gold FS and who, if they cannot easily get to the top themselves, are willing and eager to learn. Again, no different than back in the day when FSs were looking for tourney points when 10 chests seemed an elusive goal.

 

[BrinDarby]

Amen @samidodamage ,

There are sooo many +++'s to playing the Spire, even if
its just to TheLab... I admit level-3 seems expensive...

If you do to TheLab, you have 1 shot @ each of the Magic
buildings, every week. Add to that all the instants you seem
to accumulate, along with the CCs, Frags, 5hr B's, and diamonds,
whats not to like about playing the Spire... I mean really....

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

Maybe because anyone can do it?

No, if anyone can do it, then there would be 200 fellowships getting Gold in the Spire every week on every server, instead of maybe 20 per server. Do you know how to look in-game to see how many achieved Gold on your server once the Spire ends for the week? I don't remember if you can even see this in the mobile app, but in the browser version, you click on your rank number, which opens up the Rankings screen. Then you click on the Spire tab, go to the first page of fellowships, and then see how few get the 1330 points for Gold.

 

[Yavimaya]

I personally only have 1 city in this game at this current point. I worked hard practicing every single week (for many months) before I was able to start topping the spire. I started out in a very low fs where most did not even try the spire. I got lucky with a great mentor who gave me tips etc in game. I kept at it daily working to get my city ready to attempt a little further each time. I watched videos on how is best to cater and had to strengthen my army. My goal was to turn into a mostly fighting city. By the time I had hit end of ch.8 I think, I topped it for the first time. I didn't think I could sustain it though but I did and kept at it and made it my very top priority which did cause me to not tourney as far as I was used to. Then my mentor moved on to a spire fs as that had been a goal of theirs. I thought maybe I could do that one day. And then I tried and got there. What is hard and what is needed though is 25 people all wanting that very same goal. That alone is very hard to find and why you seem some high turnover in those gold spire fellowships. It is very possible though. It's all about finding the right fs for you.

 

[Lelanya]

I just won  another Magic Residence in my best city.