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Winning! (or not) Battle Insights and Observations share yours

DeletedUser594

Guest
I just wanted to kick off a thread for sharing what we learn on the new battle system. Did you find anything interesting in Battle that changes your strategy, tactics, choice of troops?
This thread is not for discussing how fighting impacts pace of expansion or related changes. Please use appropriate threads for issues that are not directly to play on the battlefield They aren't hard to find.
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I thought priests and cerbs were getting nerfed but so far I like the changes. Cerbs lost their one shot kill but seem more effective against a wider range of opponents ( lost some ability against Golum/Stein though).

Archers have been a dissapointment. i expected a bit more firpower. They still feel like bench warmers to me

Priests are really growing on me. They have more oomph than I expected. I read a post in beta where they were called worse than useles. I disagree. Here's an experimental fight using only priests: (pending approval)
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@Mykan -
I've been looking at that as well. Swords are causing as much damage to HM that my archers are doing with their bonus (1st round tournies anyway). Cerbs can damage stein, and to a lesser extent canon. They cause minimal damage to hM but even 1 point is better than before. The biggest improvement with cerbs and Archers is theiir defense. The cerbs are lasting 3 or 4 rounds with multiple hits. Overall I say they are more useful even if it takes an extra hit to take out an archer.
Axe lost their ability to damage stein and their ability to take a hit from stein it seems so far- so exactly as would be expected from the chart.
This is all based on very limited experience so far and totally subject to change.
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dpepva.jpg
 
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Mykan

Mykan

Oh Wise One
I am trying to learn how troops neutral to each other can work. The battle pentagon is fairly clear on strength and weakness but the unspoken part of it is each troop type is neutral to itself.

I am finding sorceress are still nice and powerful, they use to power through silk provinces but now power through gem provinces with a bit of golem support
 
Sir Squirrel

Sir Squirrel

Artist EXTRAORDINAIRE and Buddy Fan Club member
I found 3 priest's II 2 paladin II pretty effective,( I see why they took the priests shooting range down, they would have been a little too effective), I like they can move more than one space now., As for archers they have the higher initiative to give you first move, the enemy will get to use all his archers on you first if you have none.(not to big a deal if you have a troop with a buff against them though). I found them better than they were before, but not my first pick when better troops are available. Glad you made this tread varron, I was wanting to do one like this myself, so thanks.
 
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Mykan

Mykan

Oh Wise One
Also note that the battle pentagon is based on a benefit towards a certain unit type so you need to learn what the benefit it. Sometimes it is attack, sometimes defense or both. The units particularly that are only attack or defense will have a specific role, for example attack only might be glass cannons and need protecting.

This sort of thing can work the other way too where the unit specialised against your troop might be an attack bonus only not defense. Giving you option to kill them before they kill you.
 
Sir Squirrel

Sir Squirrel

Artist EXTRAORDINAIRE and Buddy Fan Club member
I had one of my fellowship ask about fighting like units today , My guess would be that who ever got first hit would win, if both units were same class and size. I told her that if the squad size was close she would be fine, but if the enemy squad was a fair bit bigger that I would wait to do that battle. Do you think this was good advice?
 
Mykan

Mykan

Oh Wise One
Sir Squirrel said:
I had one of my fellowship ask about fighting like units today , My guess would be that who ever got first hit would win, if both units were same class and size. I told her that if the squad size was close she would be fine, but if the enemy squad was a fair bit bigger that I would wait to do that battle. Do you think this was good advice?
Click to expand...

Sounds reasonable. A lot depends on the specific scenario as the province units have different stats to ours and it is possible in the later levels that a special ability may effect a difference. Which is not counting a units special ability, for example a sorceress could apply it ability to a light range units and then your archers and the enemy go toe to toe, the support provided by the mage would give your like unit an edge.
 
Sir Squirrel

Sir Squirrel

Artist EXTRAORDINAIRE and Buddy Fan Club member
Yeah after pondering it a bit I realized tactics could give us an advantage, but terrain could change the outcome as well.
 

DeletedUser594

Guest
1.15 is like a Jekyll and Hyde update and it's a shame bcs they've soured a lot of players by conflating two seperate issues.
They sought to address
1. The intrinsic Battle mechanics- which were very much in need of restructuring and may turn out to be much better
2. The pace of expansion- which they sought to curtail and chose to so by making squad size the determining factor as you get further out..

If they had used chosen some other mechanism, it doesn't matter what, lets call it collecting blue monkeys, and they left the the rate of territory acquisition alone- while still limiting the expansions through other means, then the whole conversation changes.

The actual battle changes unrelated to the expansion issue are completely lost in the uproar. If they had gone with blue monkey fix a whole slew of people would be talking about how the new battle works and simultaneously cursing blue monkeys.
That's why I started this thread
 

DeletedUser1901

Guest
varron said:
The actual battle changes unrelated to the expansion issue are completely lost in the uproar.

That's why I started this thread
Click to expand...

I agree and very much appreciate you stepping out here with this!!! I have found the same so far with the priests becoming my favorite unit to tinker with... very slow going to me to play with the new troops.

I never did a lot of fighting before because it was too confusing for me, I'm hoping that this new set up makes more sense in my head! lol

The few video's that I'm finding really help me a lot so keep posting them please :D
 

DeletedUser3297

Guest
Here is the latest! I am doing much better in steel provinces than I have done before the update!

My archer took out the Necromancer in one shot, but died in the 4th round by the thief's sword. My priests kept cutting the knights in half every round, but the knight had my priest cornered and returned the favor. My paladin suffered a little bit of damage from the other thief. Currently this world is in chapter 4, almost got the paladin promotion, but I do not have any squad size upgrades from this chapter yet and I am doing just fine :)

MFJEIWU.png

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864QEoD.png
 
SoggyShorts

SoggyShorts

Mathematician par Excellence
Out of sheer laziness I cleared a gem province on my 110/100 account with all priests on auto-fight. Lost very few troops (around 1/4 stack usually), except once I lost 2 stacks, probably due to bad terrain or stupid moves by the AI.
I really should have at least watched the first bit of each encounter, but I wanted to get those 17 relics done quickly. Also adding in 1 paladin per enemy archer stack would probably have been better. When I'm feeling less lazy I'll pay attention and post better info =)
 

DeletedUser3297

Guest
Having an archer in each battle will ensure you always start first, but I also know that not all of your troops get to go first, I guess that is what th initiative does. The priests are becoming my fav warrior as well, but with an archer, it just seems like the odds are in my favor.

EDIT:

I just followed your example @SoggyShorts
I autofought a province with preists and came out even better! And they had an extra squad. Didn't even care to look at the terrain either :)

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DeletedUser2963

Guest
I am actually really loving my light archer. His movement and usefulness against heavy melee is just outstanding. Damage is pretty decent against other light archers, as long as I skip first move and make sure I get in the first hit. I find I am putting my light archers into almost every battle now. I don't think I used them much at all before the update. Still pretty fragile to all melee attacks and heavy ranged
 

DeletedUser2824

Guest
It's nice to see everyone's observations. My pups have been in an uproar trying to figure out this new system. Nothing that worked before seems to work anymore and they've been awfully frustrated. :( If anyone could make a chart with the new strengths and weakness's (once we find out what they are) that'd be great!
 
Mykan

Mykan

Oh Wise One
taggathias said:
It's nice to see everyone's observations. My pups have been in an uproar trying to figure out this new system. Nothing that worked before seems to work anymore and they've been awfully frustrated. :( If anyone could make a chart with the new strengths and weakness's (once we find out what they are) that'd be great!
Click to expand...

The battle pentagon provided by Inno shows the strengths and weakness generally for one unit type to another. You can also look at the battle section of my guide it has the picture and some information I have put together so far. Varron also had a chart which is included in my guide.

There was also a link some where to a webpage to do with Platinum Leaf that had done the pentagon as a chart for those who prefer that option.

Your pups will learn with the next update how to better fetch that stick the mages use so you can neutralise them;)
 

DeletedUser1901

Guest
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