Poaching of players should be banned

[Iyapo]

we have rule against no poachign in our disciption and yet when confronted with this she says this:

A no poaching rule means, don't recruit players from other fellowships. Your fellowship rules only apply to your members.

 

[Dew Spinner]

A no poaching rule means, don't recruit players from other fellowships. Your fellowship rules only apply to your members.

They Think they can put rules on other FS's, LOL!

 

[Ariel Greensleeves]

#1. Stop calling the sending of an invitation message to players "poaching". Its recruitment. Poaching is killing an animal illegally. Recruitment is flattery and should be taken (or left) as such. Its entirely up to the player to reply or not but complaining is not necessary.
#2. Sending repeated messages to the same player after a polite decline is "harassment", not poaching. Harassment is not ok. Giving benefit of the doubt, perhaps the recruiter did not keeping careful notes of whom they have contacted. As for lying about benefits, why would you when your FS and individual history can be checked online.
#3. Players have different styles and RL commitments, and they change over time. Let them go if they want to go. Welcome them back if they change their mind and you still have room.
#4. Recruitment from other FS is an important part of the game to maintain a full, active FS.
I don't see it as a good thing for a "new" (presumably unclaimed) player to join a FS with members who are all far above their chapter level. I'm willing to advise anyone to help them grow. But who wants to be always at the bottom of the rankings and have no FS members who even remember what that chapter was like? I recruit players who are not lower than the lowest chapter of current FS members. My FS has minimums for participation (that the full FS decided on and agreed to) and if a new person can't meet them, they would be unhappy and overwhelmed. Contrariwise, high chapter players who play solo usually want to stay solo bc of bad FS experiences or just their style.
#5. When I recruit to replace already absent members (and I hate doing it), I examine a player on Elvenstats for far more than a boosted goods match; in fact, that's not even a consideration. I look for a player whose activity level/growth rate seems to fit with our FS AND is in a FS with fewer than 20 members and lower ranking/benefits than my own. I have never sent more than one invite to the same person. Since there's no way to differentiate a struggling FS from a new, growing FS by using Elvenstats, don't get upset if your FS members are being recruited.

#6. While I'm adding my 2 cents to the rant, please stop complaining about people who donate a small amount to your AWs. This is not a crime, its a gift. Communication among your FS members will solve the problem of outsiders who donate 1-5 KP in hopes of getting a chest. Also, many good friendships (and even recruitments) have been started by giving or receiving a KP gift.

 

[Ariel Greensleeves]

BTW, I was in a horrible FS at first and didn't know what a good, well-run FS was like. Someone attempted to recruit me and I turned them down bc I had group loyalty to a few of the members in the original FS. A month later I was booted for trying to lead from the back and encourage group cooperation. Even though it was a dysfunctional FS, I was still devastated by the rejection. Fortunately, another FS member also decided to leave and had a friend in my current FS. Eventually 4 of us joined the same new FS, which I love and have been in for 2 years now, despite my repeated resolutions to stop spending so much time on this game (group loyalty triumphed). Kept tabs on the old FS- it pretty much died a slow painful death. However, I could have joined the initial FS invitation (and spared myself a week of ranting and second guessing myself) and am still friends with the person who invited me! Again, no easy way for a recruiter to tell if you are in a growing member stage or a departing member stage if your FS has less than 25 members.

 

[Darielle]

[MOD EDIT] Name removed send this message to many of my members on 2 servers:

I see that your fellowship is struggling a little. I am looking for your boosts so I decided to message you. I have someone that just retired so if you decide to find a new home that is relaxed but still 10 chest tourney with blue prints. All without trying and a ton of fun plz come join me in Utopia Springs! If not then I wish you all lots of luck my friend!! (((HUGS))) [MOD EDIT] Name removed

she doesn't even know how our fellowship works, laid back and enjoy the game. we have rule against no poachign in our disciption and yet when confronted with this she says this:

“Oh I'm sorry I sure did not read your Overview or I would not have sent a message. It is always up to you if you decide to stay or go though and I am always very polite. Right now everyone is recruiting because so many are leaving the game as it's becoming more work to play. So I still wish you the best of luck and hope that others read it and maybe your AM will recruit so your fs is not struggling. I always do when we lose one so people do not come poach my people. It seems to be the only way to keep an active happy fellowship now. Sorry I bothered you and again good luck.”

we have harsher words for her and still she trys to bother our members. she then admitted to send 110 messages out to different people just to fill one spot on her fellowship. we asked her to stop and she refuses. this is the thing that bothers our fellowship, wind dancers.

A rule against poaching in your overview? Oh my freakin heck ... and you're mad at HER? She wrote a decent note back ... nonconfrontational. She said she is sorry she bothered you ... but you say she keeps trying. Are you sure that she messaged afterward? Or are your people just happening to read those messages sent before that? (And why would she tell you she sent 110 messages? That makes no sense.)

If I saw such a silly rule in a struggling fellowship, which of course is totally unenforceable and meaningless, I might take that as a recruitment challenge. I might even feel sympathy for the newest members, wanting to rescue them from a controlling fellowship. They, after all, probably have no idea what a good fellowship and a good AM really are. I might feel compelled to show them.

My best advice is to laugh off recruitment attempts and start working towards building up your fellowship by providing the best experience for your players that you can possibly provide. Be there as often as you can. Take their trades whether you need them or not. Lead the way on tourney and spire as much as you are able. Guide the group in their goals and make rules that everyone can live with (and make sure the rules are fair and necessary ... not arbitrary or unenforceable whims.) Stick to them, and if one or two don't comply, find members who will. Have fun fellowship events and surprises. Go out on a limb for your group and show them that they matter. I'm not saying to cave when you want to go one way and someone wants to go another. But remember that no fellowship on earth can be a "one size fits all" ... if someone comes in and finds it's not the right fit, then they should leave for the health of the group and them personally. Don't beg anyone to stay, and don't get mad if they leave ... EVEN if someone asked them to do so. Work hard on your fellowship and show you care, and you won't need any ridiculous rules. People will want to stay.

 

[Tehya1]

I don't see it as a good thing for a "new" (presumably unclaimed) player to join a FS with members who are all far above their chapter level. I'm willing to advise anyone to help them grow. But who wants to be always at the bottom of the rankings and have no FS members who even remember what that chapter was like?

LOL! This was me until very recently! I was way smaller than the next lowest member for a long time in one of my fs, but you are wrong about having no fs members who remember what it was like to be at my level. I have found that group to be really supportive and they have never made me feel small.

 

[Sprite1313]

I don't see it as a good thing for a "new" (presumably unclaimed) player to join a FS with members who are all far above their chapter level. I'm willing to advise anyone to help them grow. But who wants to be always at the bottom of the rankings and have no FS members who even remember what that chapter was like? I recruit players who are not lower than the lowest chapter of current FS members. My FS has minimums for participation (that the full FS decided on and agreed to) and if a new person can't meet them, they would be unhappy and overwhelmed.

I was lucky to get into a top 10 fellowship when I was a very small city. I got a lot of great advice that helped me grow smartly (and it was always couched in “this worked for me, but it might not for you, so don’t take it as a ‘must’”). Not only did I get great advice, but I got a great start with lopsided trades that helped me build my city quickly. Even though I was so small, I met the FS minimums (top the spire every week, and at least 1600 on tournament (pre-19 chest tournament). I had no trouble meeting those minimums, though my FS helped me with goods for early spires. What were huge amounts to my chapter 5 city (“you want 5000 goods!”) wasn’t even a blip for the late-chapter players sitting on millions of goods.

I do agree that you can forget some of the details of the struggle, but the overall game mechanics are the same. Advising new players on how to set up their cities for long-term success is way more important than remembering that relics were a challenge for upgrading the Golden Abyss early on (it’s entirely possible that I am currently going through this with a baby city, and didn’t even think about that).

I also agree that communicating with players and recruiting players who are in other FS is not “poaching” or evil. Keeping a full active FS is HARD. When you see an active player in what appears to be a half-dead FS, why not see if they are interested in a more-active game? If I see somebody who is a neighbour, struggling in a FS, I feel an urge to do something about it. Should somebody stay in an FS that isn’t a good fit just because that is where they started? They are far more likely to end up quitting the game entirely. If I had stayed one of my early FS, I would have quit the game. Not bad FS or bad people, just not my style of play or a good fit for my personality. I found a great FS that not only helped me grow, but made the game FUN.

This:

People are not things to be stolen.

And this:

Fellowships belong to players, not the other way around. If fellowship leaders think they own the players, they are setting themselves up for failure.

 

[crackie]

i stand by my post and described motivations of the poachers, to weak and lazy emotionzally to develope a player from the start, and scared to drop a rank so they steal

Is [MOD EDIT] Name removed or [MOD EDIT] Name removed weak and lazy emotionally to develop players from scratch or is it more of the case of why would they have to because they run one of the top college football and college basketball programs in the country respectively, so the blue chip recruits want to play for their programs based on their reputations alone? They not only get to pick from the cream of the crop, but get to be super picky about it and even DENY excellent players into their program for things like poor body language. And if tomorrow, everyone has to restart from scratch rebuilding with only random kids off the streets, I'd still bet on them to get their programs out ahead of the pack of their peers because they are true leaders. I'm also sure if someone offers them an exhibition match against a professional team, that they'd accept the invitation without hesitation because they're not afraid of anyone or afraid to lose. True leaders lead with whatever motley crew they have in front of them. They're not sitting around playing victim and blaming others for their shortcomings or circumstance.

I don't see it as a good thing for a "new" (presumably unclaimed) player to join a FS with members who are all far above their chapter level. I'm willing to advise anyone to help them grow. But who wants to be always at the bottom of the rankings and have no FS members who even remember what that chapter was like?

LOL! This was me until very recently! I was way smaller than the next lowest member for a long time in one of my fs, but you are wrong about having no fs members who remember what it was like to be at my level. I have found that group to be really supportive and they have never made me feel small.

Big cities could have little cities in other worlds so they're not always too far removed from the humble memories of early chapters. For my 3rd city, I joined the FS as a chap 1 city when next smallest was in chap 12 and half the FS was already in chap 20. It plays like I'm the surprise pregnancy of the group and all my siblings are already in high school. When I first arrived, they gave me wonderful tips like "build only boosted goods factories" and "be sure to upgrade your main hall". Mostly though, I like to play the role of the little puppy with a ton of bark and no bite by talking a ton of smack to the bigger cities. Yesterday, I threatened the next player that she better watch out because I got my first copper mine, but I was told she's not all that worried because she's in chap 15 now. I also started a KP war for Wonder Society with someone in chapter 20. Point is, you're the runt of the litter so you really have nothing to lose. But like a broken clock is always right twice a day, even the smallest KP contributor will eventually become a target at some point with the highest balance. And when that happens, boy will there be the most obnoxious celebration and finger pointing...at least for a short-lived day!

 

[Yavimaya]

LOL! This was me until very recently! I was way smaller than the next lowest member for a long time in one of my fs, but you are wrong about having no fs members who remember what it was like to be at my level. I have found that group to be really supportive and they have never made me feel small.

Same here and now I'm not on the lower end anymore either! Tons of help!

 

[BrinDarby]

Poaching is 1 thing, potentially bad....... but
FSs that are interconnected and ship players
between each other for pushes is Wrong !!!!
Lets be honest here, it screws players wanting
to stay in 1 FS, yet lose rewards in favor of
another FS..... thats the part thats just Wrong !!!

The FS I was in forfieted Silver Spire so that
thier big brother FS could swipe 3 players for
a Gold push....

I am Against "packing" FSs ( cheating basically
in my opinion ) so when I lose 75 so another
FS can get 125 xtra..... I left that FS at the end
of the week, so when you look @ why players
leave FSs..... favoring a sister FS, over a current one
is a good way to piss ppl off and into leaving.

If you Cannot get Gold on your own.....
then recruit perm members !!!!
don't cannablize another FS for your
shortcommings.

 

[Iyapo]

@BrinDarby

Just a helpful suggestion, you should probably read the fellowship overview and look at the trophies before you join. You were not robbed, deceived, or mislead. You were also not poached.

 

[BrinDarby]

@Iyapo ,
I just check'd that FSs Overview,......

Nothing is mentioned about sending players to
another FS regularly....... should I post the Overview
here ???? you are wrong, and I just re-read it before
commenting on your comment.

 

[BrinDarby]

Gee I cannot extract the text, go figure......
thats on Inno.....

and Iyapo, I never said I was poached.....

 

[Iyapo]

You dont need to post the overview. All you need to say is that you joined a solid bronze Starfleet Fellowship with 2 silver trophies. You brought pressure and disapproval.

Edit: word removed

 

[BrinDarby]

All you need to say is that you joined a solid bronze Starfleet Fellowship. You brought pressure, drama, and disapproval.

That is a complete LIE !!!!!.....

I joined a FS on the cusp of SIlver that my contributions
would weekly put into Silver

I ask'd for a 2 week trial, I was told it would be a 4 week
trial.. ( with no bad feelings either way ) I left

I didn't bring Drama to the FS, unless you count the fact
that thru mismanagement the FS couldn't even use perk
pts effectively, and I ask'd politely that they should. I kept
that all behind the scenes and dramaless with the AM, duh.

You're the 1 thats turning this into DRAMA, when I made a
generic comment about a generic FS about specific concerns.
Rather than that discussing the situation, you call'd me a Liar...

I was NOT a Liar, I did not bring Drama anywhere, I did not
pressure anyone, and I'm certainly gonna stand up for myself
Especially when I did all this in a professional and non drama
manner......

 

[Iyapo]

Your are right, you did not bring drama, I apologize. You did try to bring pressure to a laid back fellowship with no spire participation requirements, and disapproval for player swapping to a Starfleet FS.

I made a generic comment about a generic FS about specific concerns.

No such thing as a generic comment about a fellowship, everyone can look and see who you are talking about, this thread is about poaching, you were not poached. I did not call you a liar, I just said you should read the overview before you join and then complain about being robbed.

 

[Ariel Greensleeves]

I appreciate all the "lower chapter" players who said they did well joining an FS with much higher members. I will definitely take this into account when recruiting now. I myself was very nervous about joining my first FS bc I didn't think I would bring much to the table. Come to think of it, our members who are in ch. 9-12 often contribute more to tourney and spire than our ch. 17 players. It is really a matter of style and commitment. If everyone on the top half of our FS pushed as hard as I do, we would hit gold every week and have 14+ chests instead of 11. People do get complacent at higher chapters (me included). Its hard to get excited and log in multiple times a day when you are doing your 3rd event in the same chapter. (Don't really need a different building that does the same thing as the ones I have, thanks...) This is my personal struggle now in ch. 16. I have been invited to another FS by an old friend but I stay where I am bc I am loyal to the team and have assumed a position of co-leadership and mentoring. I guess this is why people start multiple cities. AAACK! Real Life is calling...be there as soon as I set all my elves back to work....

 

[Deborah M]

Your are right, you did not bring drama, I apologize. You did try to bring pressure to a laid back fellowship with no spire participation requirements, and disapproval for player swapping to a Starfleet FS.


No such thing as a generic comment about a fellowship, everyone can look and see who you are talking about, this thread is about poaching, you were not poached. I did not call you a liar, I just said you should read the overview before you join and then complain about being robbed.

This. Fairly recently my laid-back FS had a player poached. It was a new player that we helped grow. They decided they wanted gold spire. It is very clear by the trophies that we are a silver spire FS and even that is not a requirement. We accommodated getting gold spire a few times. Even though it was disappointing for that player to leave, it was a relief for me and several others to not feel pressured toward doing something we prefer not to do. The player didn't even have to make demands. They were just so into it that it became unspoken pressure.

 

[hvariidh gwendrot]

this is never going to go away, just the way it is ... i've been playing for 5+ years, in the top 50 on my original world, founded a fellowship on all 8 worlds, and when i started was in a fellowship that bounced from 2nd to 3rd, and have seen it all, which is a main reason we started this fellowship lol..., these guys that poach (not all buta lot) also make alt accounts (vs a 2nd city to help) then they drop those in fellowships not to help but to jam them up and take a spot that could have gone to a real player .. if you are being motivated by fear of loss and a need for external gratification to measure your self worth, the game is playing you lol i have no problems with players that moe around or get busy and have to cut back or quit etc etc,(a bit shell shocked of the several that have succumbed to mortality lately) i just have an old school view of making something for myself is better than trying to tear down or steal from others

 

[Darielle]

this is never going to go away, just the way it is ... i've been playing for 5+ years, in the top 50 on my original world, founded a fellowship on all 8 worlds, and when i started was in a fellowship that bounced from 2nd to 3rd, and have seen it all, which is a main reason we started this fellowship lol..., these guys that poach (not all buta lot) also make alt accounts (vs a 2nd city to help) then they drop those in fellowships not to help but to jam them up and take a spot that could have gone to a real player .. if you are being motivated by fear of loss and a need for external gratification to measure your self worth, the game is playing you lol i have no problems with players that moe around or get busy and have to cut back or quit etc etc,(a bit shell shocked of the several that have succumbed to mortality lately) i just have an old school view of making something for myself is better than trying to tear down or steal from others

As so many have said, if you are really building up something and players feel great in being there, no one is going to be able to tear you down or steal players. If they can, then something is wrong and it's better to find that out, even at the cost of a "poached" player, then to go on blissfully unaware that players are unhappy. I never take a lost player as a negative. I take it as an opportunity to either find out what I'm doing wrong or else reaffirm that what I'm doing is right for our particular group, just not right for everyone. Either way, that's a positive thing. You lose a player who really shouldn't be there (and if they should, they'll be back) plus you have an opportunity to fill that slot with a player who will love your group. Win win.