News from Beta - May Contain Spoilers!

[Yavimaya]

@Mykan thank you very much for breaking this all down for us! I really appreciate your help.

 

[BrinDarby]

IF - and only IF - the actual purpose was to 'level the playing field' by taking away extra advantages from high-level players, they have gone about it in the most backwards way possible.

The permanent imbalance for newbies is players who have multiple bases for strong evolving buildings, or 27 Moonstone Library sets, or such - things that happened earlier in the game that new players can never get now.

It seems Inno has no real desire to have things "balanced".
The only reason we can have (now) just 1, of Moonstone set
is because its winnable. Bought items, you can have as many
as your checkbook can support. The trend is NOT to a more
balanced game..... its the transistion back to P2P from F2P.

We have tons of examples where Inno gave us a new bldg,
only to have the game Nerf'd down so if you didn't have that
bldg you were @ huge disadvantage. Why then do they allow
5day bldgs (winnable/craftable) to stack with no limits ???
I can show other examples of how Inno has no desire to have
balance in Elvenar.

Lets take the player that buys diamonds with $$ , uses those
diamonds to get an xtra base/artifacts. Down the line Inno
says, sry the 1 per acct is now active on all non buildable bldgs.
That person is livid because that 2nd base is taken away or
made unplaceable/unusable.

The only way to truly balance the game is to have a scheme
where all non buildable bldgs are capp'd @ 1each. Difficulty
would be tied to CH, not MH or SS or anything else. All 5day
or other stackable bldgs become non-stackable. Placed land
is removed completely from any calc on difficulty. AND the
calc for difficulty would then be adjusted so that a player
with no xtra stuff, could build out enough to cover difficulty.
Doing this would crush the revenue stream, therefore balance
takes a 2nd seat to revenue generation.

To avoid the huge debauchle of the forced CH migration, I
suggest strongly Inno rebalance all buildings before porting
to live servers otherwise players will have to re-org everything
each time you put out a chunk of rebalancing of bldgs. Keep
it on Beta till you've rebalanced every bldg in Elvenar. While
you're at it, fix 1 of the biggest imbalances in the frick'n game.
the 50% trade tax for undiscovered cities, that inversely hurts
smaller players while bigger players run the show (trade).

This new mgmt team/owner of Inno needs to wake up and
smell the coffee, Elvenar in thier hands is 1 huge Jenga game.
All these dumb changes are like removing pieces, leaving
holes in the Jenga tower, and cumulative this has 1 outcome....
the tower will fall, and buh-bye goes Elvenar. You cannot
take a F2P game, with 7 years of market saturation back to
the good 'ole days of massive profit, unless you either
reset the whole game or rewrite the whole game. Since
resetting the game = most of the playerbase quits anyway,
Inno might as well just stop the changes, build a whole
new game from the ground up and pray the old players
return along with the new players they attract to the game.
They must eliminate all references to the old game, so
new players have no idea how badly they hose'd the old
playerbase and the newbies will trust mgmt. Which means
they have to dump the Forums and all the acrhived info.

There is NO WAY, let me repeat NO WAY to correctly balance
a game between F2P and P2P players, or legacy players who
have insane multiples of some bldgs. Take a person with (4)
Moonstone sets..... thats (4) CCs and (2100) SFs per 21 hrs.
That cannot be balanced compared to the player with 1 set.
They get (1) CC and (525) SFs in that same 21 hrs. This works
the same way as letting ppl pay for (4) of a base/artifacts
compared to someone who barely gets 1 base fully evolved.

Its one thing to allow purchases of stuff that are short timeframe
powerups, but to sell things that have a unlim lifetime... then
to chg/nerf that bldg later on = a degredation of trust in
spending $$$ for things that now aren't what was purchased,
resulting in a dramatic reduction of revenue to Elvenar, and
a genuine distrust of mgmt by the playerbase.

So, do I believe there are some overpowered bldgs, duhh Yes.
Do I believe the current way of rebalancing helps either Inno
or the Playerbase...... Duhh No.

 

[Silver Lady]

I have a question (don’t I always)! Currently selling an AW gets you absolutely nothing (no refunds given), now that they are going to required lots of expensive and rare (for us regular people) resources are we going to either get those resources back if we sell or be able to teleport built wonders into our inventory?

 

[Yogi Dave]

I have a question (don’t I always)! Currently selling an AW gets you absolutely nothing (no refunds given), now that they are going to required lots of expensive and rare (for us regular people) resources are we going to either get those resources back if we sell or be able to teleport built wonders into our inventory?

Short answer: NO
Long answer: Do you really think Inno will be reasonable?

 

[Silver Lady]

@Yogi Dave
Short Answer to long answer: NO
Long answer: If they can’t be reasonable why should I?

Very least no more $$$ spent here and will probably be goodbye Elvenar. It’s WAS a nice 5 years but a total 180 in how you’re treating me and I’ve decided “I WANT A DIVORCE!”

 

[Yogi Dave]

I thought the change in the tourney method was bad, but it wasn't all that hard to adjust to after much complaining. And it did help those in earlier chapters. But this set of changes may actually be over the line for me since it seems like it will hurt more than help all players. It's no fun seeing the little guys get stepped on. It's not as upsetting for us big guys to have that happen. I started playing and posting here in March of '17, so almost 7 years. Others have been here longer, but that list is shrinking. ...and so is my joy.

It's become very hard, if not impossible, to figure out how to help people with the game. I mean, what AWs or building can I suggest, or any strategy can I give knowing the changes that are coming? Even the big boost to Enar's Embassy is difficult to recommend since, as @Mykan has pointed out, it's probably too big a boost in mana production which Inno might, (dare I say probably - yes, I do) nerf. One can't count on anything being a 'good' choice because there is too great a chance it will come back and bite you in the ass. Worse, is to suggest a path to someone and that happen to them. Being at the end of chapters, helping others and learning from others has been the most fun.

 

[Pheryll]

I thought the change in the tourney method was bad, but it wasn't all that hard to adjust to after much complaining. And it did help those in earlier chapters. But this set of changes may actually be over the line for me since it seems like it will hurt more than help all players.

It may put a different focus into playing events. Instead of going for the KP rewards and artifacts for the evolving building, people may focus on the building daily prizes to sell (for RR or CC) or disenchant (for SF) to level up their wonders. If people could see the CC and RR selling benefits before placing their buildings, it would also help them to better strategize. As a whole, it looks like Inno is pushing for players to have a large number of moderately leveled wonders (level 16 or so) instead of leveling a few all the way to the top.

 

[Fayeanne]

So, coming soon, to get the same benefit to training size, I can place a Shrine of Shrewdy Shrooms which is smaller and produces archers, or a Dwarven Bulwark which is bigger and produces the most useless unit in the game. GEE, DECISIONS.

 

[Mykan]

Shrooms v Bulwark is sad as there was strategic choices between the two and plenty of times people would debate one over the other and except for the troop offering it always came down to other choices in the town as to which was better. But now there is no choice and if you only built one why would you ever pick the bulwark (as above). I can't think of a better mechanic for the shrooms but worst case use the old mechanic but cap it in some fashion. Assuming the issue was it got too big. Honestly of all the player impacted effects on wonders this feels like the least problematic as seriously what does training size impact? It is not culture, it is not resources (gold, goods, etc) it is not more powerful troops, it is a peaceful night sleep. When taken to extreme (40 armouries) it is not even space as a person is giving that and culture and pop up to get more armouries.


On a different note and I know as a long term player this means nothing to the devs as we are not the focus. But levelling wonders is the part of the game I enjoy the most. I have played for far too long and most of that time has been at the end of the tech tree, honestly I almost enjoy it more (maybe cause I am used to it) because I can just focus on levelling wonders. I get to see my town grow and develop, enjoy the artwork and enjoy benefit for hard work. With this change I lose that, not that I can't level a wonder but the speed at which it can be down will be glacial.

I suppose on that note a CM mentioned sometime ago that KP was seen as the least valuable reward but we will be swimming in it after thos change. Can some rewards giving KP be looked at to offer SF/CC or RR? I do state all 3 as different towns suffer for different ones. I struggle less for RR simply because I build wonders and not event buildings, for others it is different.

Very least no more $$$ spent here and will probably be goodbye Elvenar. It’s WAS a nice 5 years but a total 180 in how you’re treating me and I’ve decided “I WANT A DIVORCE!”

Sadly it is not the first time, has happened several times (at least 5 come to find) and generally it is for the better of the game. The tourny one is the only debateable one, especially when younger players "then" are starting to find the difficulty ramp up now, are starting to see what all the complaining was about as they are now big enough to start to get it. Plus all the parked towns not developing so they can play tournament, surely not a desired outcome.

I still have faith that the devs are trying to do the right thing for the game. I took a huge pop hit when they changed GA and will stand to take a massive culture hit with this (1.6M currently), but I will adapt.

 

[Deleted User - 849411552]

Easier to write an epistle here and I trust feedback is still read (and hopefully passed on) from forums. I have ignored the military wonders mainly, there might be minor changes or display changes (unsure which). Too much to cover already and those didn't look huge at first, same for bee.

Based on the updates in it current iteration.
The good
[SNIP]

The bad
[SNIP]

The ugly
[SNIP]
While a lot of towns complaining are said to be older towns and there is some truth to that there is a warning also. If older more established towns with experienced players and strong fellowships, tourny/spire performances cant keep up with these costs how are newer players in more casual fellowships and much smaller tourny/spire rewards supposed to?

There are some nice positives to the update but feels like a couple areas missed the mark, sadly by a lot.

edit: decided to copy to discord due to different users there. Sorry for the long read.

Thanks so much for re-posting this info from Discord to here (or perhaps the other way around - I read it on Discord first). This is an excellent summary. Its too bad Inno themselves could not be more organized and transparent in their communications on these massive changes.

 

[BrinDarby]

More consistent output of wonders with less variability based on player actions.

tied to SS (you will notice a recurring theme very soon)

Can you explain why either of these are "good" plz.
Both take "control" away from players, in my book.

I have more Qs, but I'll start with these.

 

[Yogi Dave]

Tome of secrets is mixed as it gets a supply change based on supply capacity but is tied to mainline quests which players can do in a patchy way depending on chapter, so inconsistent supply and if at end tech then zero supply. A better more consistent mechanic is needed, perhaps similar to Enars with tournament

Just elaborate on this a bit. People who don't do the quests during the chapter but wait until the end and decline them will quickly reach the supplies cap in their main hall. When you are starting a new chapter, you often will upgrade buildings. These upgrades are not instant and don't always require a lot of supplies. As a result, a lot, if not almost all, of the supplies the ToS gives will be lost. The change might encourage more people to do the storyline quests and that may be part of Inno's reasoning about the change.

A question that has probably been answered already: Will declining a quest give the supplies or does the quest have to actually be completed?

 

[Pheryll]

Can you explain why either of these are "good" plz.
Both take "control" away from players, in my book.

I have more Qs, but I'll start with these.

The easy answer is that the benefits of many wonders were being nerfed to oblivion because of the large production increases in event buildings, manufactories, etc. that occurred in the later chapters. Rather than trying to keep the increases small, the team opted to redesign the ancient wonders so that they would remain competitive in the new chapters they were releasing. In chapter 21 they implemented a change to the squad size calculation allowing them to place larger values into various techs than were reflected by the original quadratic accumulation. This means that a single parameter which they control can be adjusted to the scaling of the chapters.

 

[Mykan]

Just elaborate on this a bit. People who don't do the quests during the chapter but wait until the end and decline them will quickly reach the supplies cap in their main hall. When you are starting a new chapter, you often will upgrade buildings. These upgrades are not instant and don't always require a lot of supplies. As a result, a lot, if not almost all, of the supplies the ToS gives will be lost. The change might encourage more people to do the storyline quests and that may be part of Inno's reasoning about the change.

A question that has probably been answered already: Will declining a quest give the supplies or does the quest have to actually be completed?

I doubt supplies will make people do the quests. If they skip them it is because they are too hard, ask for a building they don't want to build or something they have no space for or the rewards are crazy for the demand (example give up x goods for like 3 kp)

People wait until the next chapter to skip the ones they don't/can't do. So much of the time they get nothing and then they get a flood of easy quests in the new chapter until it repeats. If you are end tech then your either stuck on an impassable quest or finished them and thus have 0 quests so impossible to get a benefit.

@BrinDarby it is as Pheryll explained above.
If a wonder got a buff I called it good. That list is of course my opinion and feedback for the devs. I also qualify the good in that it will take actual play to see how that mechanic plays out, but a buff is welcome.

 

[BrinDarby]

The easy answer is that the benefits of many wonders were being nerfed to oblivion because of the large production increases in event buildings, manufactories, etc. that occurred in the later chapters.

OK, so you adjust those bldgs, manu, ect ... which is tied
to CH or research not SS ( which has optional researches )
Its pure laziness not to just adjust the bldgs.

I know know we might disagree on optional researches
and this community has had debates on them but as a
end game player I don't think you realize just what a
crock it is for mid CH players, to be told.....
MH always to CH max, do all optional SS increases,
always max manus to research, place all land earned
and researched, have a zillion armories.....

Its also never a "good" thing to take control of how
a player might want to play and force every player
to play the way Inno wants it to be played.

I don't care if something was increased, that doesn't
mean that the change is "good" ....... Or..... for each
of your bullet points, do we really need to list/go thru
for each CH....... no you shouldn't have to.....

with less variability based on player actions.

NH chest tied to SS .... orcs tied to SS .... Buff tied to SS .... Buff tied to SS .... Increase tied to SS

Even if they wanna be Lazy, it just might be better
to tie this stuff to CH not SS. Infact 1 of the best ways
to balance things is exactly that..... tie stuff to CH, not
things like SS or MH cap.

I'm trying to embrace your hope that the devs are
trying to help, but I want specifics dude.....

Let me give you a picture of what happened to 2
of my worlds, and many many other players too......

Forced Migration cost me 1/2 my # of squads, it
increased all of my costs that weren't covered by my
CH'izing all my bldgs ( there went 300-400 RRs, poof ),
recoup'n troop loss's takes 50% longer, and unless
I want Spire catering costs to go thru the roof, I can't
place any new land to offset all the downsides.

Just looking @ the Math, each SS increase (researches)
decrease in relation to your core SS, as your CH increases.
So the impact to players is greatest the newer ur city.
Now it would be 1 thing if by fighting the game used
my listed SS always, and increased difficulty by adjusting
what I was fighting..... but pretty much, Inno's idea of
difficulty is boosting SS, so your enemies live longer
to inflict more dmg ( troop loss's )

As an "expense" ( troop production ) , all increasing
your SS does, is accelerate troop loss's.... the actual
fight is no harder that it was.... in that I mean the
following : if its (5) x 20 vs (5) x 25 .... making it into
(5) x 60 vs (5) x 75 its the same difficulty, but you
will accrue far more troop loss's.......So increasing
SS only makes it more expensive to fight, in no way
does it make it harder to win. Because of this fact,
I've never understood why some ppl say "ohh but you
should always do all the SS+ you can including the
optional ones..... Why ?? that just means I need more
darn armories to replacce dead troops faster, hell no.
I'm gonna bypass every darn optional SS+ I can.....
So now it seems all the buffs are nerf'd for me,
because everything got tied to SS. A nerf'd buff,
is no buff at all...... lolol.

There was a choice made, so that it would be easier
for them to tinker endlessly, fine tuning the nerf rate,
tie'n so much to SS, but they couldda done that too
by tie'n stuff to CH, rather than actually fix'n bldgs.
Fix'n bldgs was the best option, then by CH, then SS
( well for the players standpoint ) but remember
the devs dont play Elvenar, so why should they care ??

I'm never gonna say that the devs don't do some good
things, but when by croud-sourcing pros/cons of a chg
effectively the coding staff becomes 1000s of ppl, not
just the 5-15 they pay. When something comes to the
scrutiny of this forum, we go at it from all the angles,
and in the end the "best" solution, usually comes from
the players, not the devs...... and yet I have to remind
myself.... they don't care about us, just $$$.... nevermnd.
No, no more nvrmind... if Elvenar is really to survive
the devs/mgmt needs to meed the playerbase 1/2 way.
The playerbase has to do the same, otherwise its
R.I.P. for Elvenar...... with or without the Forum.

 

[mikeledo]

So you get nothing from selling your genii.

 

[Pheryll]

OK, so you adjust those bldgs, manu, ect ... which is tied
to CH or research not SS ( which has optional researches )
Its pure laziness not to just adjust the bldgs.

Tied to chapter or research works, but not proportional to chapter or research. The SS does a much better job at remaining proportional to the amounts they desire.

 

[Pheryll]

So you get nothing from selling your genii.

The list is still in the works. There will be many more elements added that did not make the original listing.

 

[crackie]

It may put a different focus into playing events. Instead of going for the KP rewards and artifacts for the evolving building, people may focus on the building daily prizes to sell (for RR or CC) or disenchant (for SF) to level up their wonders. If people could see the CC and RR selling benefits before placing their buildings, it would also help them to better strategize. As a whole, it looks like Inno is pushing for players to have a large number of moderately leveled wonders (level 16 or so) instead of leveling a few all the way to the top.

Which is now confounded by FA only giving one artifact instead of 2 for completing all 3 stages.
I'm going to try the strategy where I craft a traveling merchant for 3 CCs and then sell it for 2CCs. That ought to plug the hole they introduced.
*claps hands*

 

[Lelanya]

Jerry said there is another rework coming that ought to cover missing resources. I an guessing new Spire rewards.