Are there too many changes coming to the Elvenar game?

[Jackluyt]

I represent a fanatical group of lovers of Elvenar - as anyone will see if they visit our Facebook group, or look at all our videos!

I have played many Browser Games, and generally I think that this is a very well designed game. And many of the recent changes have been well-considered.

But I wonder if the Development Team realise how much they are, unintentionally, upsetting people?
They still have not given a GOOD reason why it was necessary to change the wholesaler!

A large number of my players feel that it was working perfectly well - and the changes have not helped make it better in any way at all. They feel it is worse now, without benefit!
You can look at this thread if you want to see some of the minor rebellion it has caused!
(I have deleted quite a few offensive comments!!)

https://www.facebook.com/groups/165...tif_t=group_comment&notif_id=1486065623297957


What is lacking for all of us, I believe, is an insight into the Devs long-term plan for the game. If they told us where they were going, it would make individual changes much easier to understand, if one could see them as part of a bigger picture!

Now the changes are arriving will-he, nill-he every few weeks - and they force us to change the way we play.
And because we do not understand the need for change - we throw our toys out the cot and have a temper tantrum, and threaten to leave the game and never return!

There are a lot of retired or disabled people playing Elvenar: elderly, bereaved, lonely, sick and suffering from debilitating diseases. Just in my fellowships I have several who are severely depressed, two on chemotherapy who must face the real possibility of death every day, and one with a degenerative muscular condition who needs physiotherapy every day.
Those are the tip of the ice-berg; the ones I know of. I am sure there are many, many more.
This is the general pattern for browser games; healthy active young people are generally out there in the real world...
So there are many, many people who come to the game for solace - for a pleasant distraction from the unpleasantness of real life.
As they grow to feel competent at the game, it gives them a feel-good - so if the Devs keep pulling the carpet from under their feet every few weeks, they can never settle to just enjoy it; they constantly need to keep learning a new style.

A very larger number of my players DO NOT WANT THAT!
They do not want everything to keep changing; they would like to settle down and play the way they know for months at a time.
They would like to wake up in the morning and click the buttons mindlessly; placing a building here and starting a few factory runs; catering and fighting a few encounters.
They do not want to have to start all over again, regularly, learning how to play all over again!
They would like a break from the endless repetition of game changes; they would like to play the game they know, the way they know - without having to relearn it every three weeks.
They would like a 'holiday from change'; they would like the game to stay the same for several months!

Are the Devs aware of all this?

I wish we could pass it on to them!

J

 

[SoggyShorts]

I like playing a game that changes and grows, but in 9 months or playing i haven't seen a change yet that made me think "oh, nice they made____ easier."

Good changes would be good, bad changes are bad.

 

[DeletedUser423]

I agree. I am beyond frustrated with this game. I work 11 hour days, am disabled, and have multiple serious health problems. I just want a relaxing, fun game that allows me to get some enjoyment out of life. The frustration I've been experiencing with Elvenar, including the Trader changes, the crap fighting system, having nearly 20,000 points summarily removed, etc. just makes it a negative experience instead of a positive. Thanks for posting this, Jack. I hope someone will listen.

 

[DeletedUser423]

I believe its time to talk about a BOYCOTT from Elvenar and Innogames !!!!

Players must go to the Beta server forum and read how members were treated on this issue and how InnoGames treats it long time standing members ie: SoggyShorts !!!!

Go to the Beta Server make an account, the go to the Forum
Go to: General Discussion
Go to topic:What is the point of Beta Feedback? dated Jan. 17, 2017

Make sure you read to the end Especially post #15 by Community Manager Elvenar Team MARINDOR who tells what Innogames true intent was all along to do with the Trader and Wholesaler changes.
Then comment #20 to me is just a slap in the face from MARINDOR to Soggy Shorts.

Players need to read this and make their own decisions on these changes....

I would, except despite having a city on the Beta world (along with 2 other worlds), I can't seem to get it to let me log in or sign up.

 

[DeletedUser4778]

I have long believed that Inno doesn't understand their market, perhaps because they have a different target market in mind. They have repeatedly said they have a vision in mind. Well, I think they'd better adapt their vision or they'll lose a big chunk of their player base...that is, if they care about their players which I highly doubt based on what I've seen.

I would, except despite having a city on the Beta world (along with 2 other worlds), I can't seem to get it to let me log in or sign up.

I had the same issue. The login screen is grayed out and won't let me click on Login. I just closed the window and opened a new one making sure I was on my server, i.e. US2 as reloading US0 or just US wouldn't work. It did take longer than normal to login though and I view that as a sign of protest against the godfather of shady characters, i.e. the scalper wholesaler.

 

[Gath Of Baal]

I just want to know the end plan for all these changes, what they want the game to be when all is said and done, what picture they have in their head that they are working towards...
I do not mind changes in the game as long as they make sense... This is supposed to be a fantasy city builder game, but it is not improving on the city builder aspect of the game, just the progressive and combat parts are being updated all the time, and the city building parts are being neglected or forgotten about..
It seems to me the reason for the new tournament format and the new wholesale system is to force people to join fellowships and cooperate with each other to further trade and encourage team work in the tournament.. I can understand why they would do this.. But first they need to work on retention.. People are leaving the game because of these constant changes that seem to make no sense to the player base.. And if players keep leaving the game at this rate, there will be slim pickings for fellowship tournament play and trades...

 

[DeletedUser4859]

It is not about the fact that changes are made. Games are dynamic and changes need to be made to improve them. It is about the fact that recent changes seem unconnected and mostly make the game less playable. Particularly for those who have been playing the longest. I will never understand how it makes sense for your customers to tell you that you are alienating them and you still continue as if nothing happened.

A clear, concise communication of where you see the game going and how changes will be implemented is what is needed. Recognise that there are different ways to play and consider that when making changes.

You could afford to be arrogant if there were no other games out there, but that is not the case. I am seeing more and more people saying that they are looking for a different game. Even on the forum. Even providing a link to the new game and inviting people to play. On the forum. Can it be more obvious than that?

Our feedback is valuable and comments are important. We have been told this many times, so it must be true, right? No reason to mislead the players, right? You want them to be happy, right? The problem is that feedback and comments don't seem to make a difference. A case of ignore them long enough and they will go away? Perhaps. The thing is people are really irritated now and bored with this whole situation. You should care about that a lot.

 

[DeletedUser4163]

Awesome thread

I am beginning to think that INNO believes that they can unroll these changes slowly and absorb the dissatisfied clients into the fold, by this I mean look at the battle system I was very vocal about that but I'm still here (I still don't like it as it fundamentally changed the game) so they do it slowly with exceptionally vague announcements in order to hopefully keep us here.

I too wish the Dev's would share their vision, I completely understand that INNO is in this to make money and I don't begrudge that, but why is it that online companies have the worst customer service EVER, is it because they can remain anonymous?

INNO, we are not asking for your respective first born just a explanation of your vision. With that we can make our own choices as adults to stay or go

 

[DeletedUser6477]

Adding in new elements (new guest races, new troops) is wonderful, but changing things that are working fine is just frustrating. "If it ain't broke, don't fix it.." The battle "upgrade" was terrible. I liked fighting, and have tried on and off since the change (with the new implementations to tell you who to use for what) and am still not getting anywhere, except to loose troops and be defeated. I adjusted my game play to negotiate, but now that has been hampered by an unneed (nor wanted) "upgrade" to the wholesaler. For people who rely on negotiating (which is A Lot anymore) the new wholesaler is rubbish. If they wanted to keep people from taking advantage of it, just put a cap on how many times you could purchase a certain offer per day, forcing people to look at other offers, once they maxed out their top choice. This is also a hindrance for ppl who would go to wholesaler to get rid of maxed out coins/supplies (which is a tip that shows during loading). The absurd price for little goods has no pay off for the player. I'm also not one to buy a bunch of KPs just to get rid of coins b/c that pushes up the $ for KPs. Also, a fellowship member pointed out that b/c we can't dump maxed coins/supplies into wholesaler (b/c of ridiculous price), that there is no incentive to visit fellows/neighbors to give help, b/c you won't be able to collect the coin/supply reward. It's like they only think how to keep ppl from abusing a resource and don't think how it will affect the 90% of honest players just trying to enjoy the game.

 

[DeletedUser5951]

Adding in new elements (new guest races, new troops) is wonderful, but changing things that are working fine is just frustrating. "If it ain't broke, don't fix it.." The battle "upgrade" was terrible. I liked fighting, and have tried on and off since the change (with the new implementations to tell you who to use for what) and am still not getting anywhere, except to loose troops and be defeated. I adjusted my game play to negotiate, but now that has been hampered by an unneed (nor wanted) "upgrade" to the wholesaler. For people who rely on negotiating (which is A Lot anymore) the new wholesaler is rubbish. If they wanted to keep people from taking advantage of it, just put a cap on how many times you could purchase a certain offer per day, forcing people to look at other offers, once they maxed out their top choice. This is also a hindrance for ppl who would go to wholesaler to get rid of maxed out coins/supplies (which is a tip that shows during loading). The absurd price for little goods has no pay off for the player. I'm also not one to buy a bunch of KPs just to get rid of coins b/c that pushes up the $ for KPs. Also, a fellowship member pointed out that b/c we can't dump maxed coins/supplies into wholesaler (b/c of ridiculous price), that there is no incentive to visit fellows/neighbors to give help, b/c you won't be able to collect the coin/supply reward. It's like they only think how to keep ppl from abusing a resource and don't think how it will affect the 90% of honest players just trying to enjoy the game.

I completely agree with this. The wholesaler is going to force me to quit playing too. I hate it. I am a small town and need to the wholesaler to keep building up my town. Now I cant even get an upgrade because the goods are too expensive. It really was a dumb mistake on there part.

 

[DeletedUser5951]

PUT THE WHOLESALER BACK YOU DUMMIES! YOU ARE RUINING THE FUN OF THE GAME AND WILL LOSE CUSTOMERS. I would spend more cash on diamonds but the game sucks now so I am looking for somewhere else to invest my time and money unless they fix there mistakes! I just started the other 4 worlds too the idiots. The money they could have made from me. Gosh people are stupid!

 

[DeletedUser5951]

I represent a fanatical group of lovers of Elvenar - as anyone will see if they visit our Facebook group, or look at all our videos!

I have played many Browser Games, and generally I think that this is a very well designed game. And many of the recent changes have been well-considered.

But I wonder if the Development Team realise how much they are, unintentionally, upsetting people?
They still have not given a GOOD reason why it was necessary to change the wholesaler!

A large number of my players feel that it was working perfectly well - and the changes have not helped make it better in any way at all. They feel it is worse now, without benefit!
You can look at this thread if you want to see some of the minor rebellion it has caused!
(I have deleted quite a few offensive comments!!)

https://www.facebook.com/groups/165...tif_t=group_comment&notif_id=1486065623297957


What is lacking for all of us, I believe, is an insight into the Devs long-term plan for the game. If they told us where they were going, it would make individual changes much easier to understand, if one could see them as part of a bigger picture!

Now the changes are arriving will-he, nill-he every few weeks - and they force us to change the way we play.
And because we do not understand the need for change - we throw our toys out the cot and have a temper tantrum, and threaten to leave the game and never return!

There are a lot of retired or disabled people playing Elvenar: elderly, bereaved, lonely, sick and suffering from debilitating diseases. Just in my fellowships I have several who are severely depressed, two on chemotherapy who must face the real possibility of death every day, and one with a degenerative muscular condition who needs physiotherapy every day.
Those are the tip of the ice-berg; the ones I know of. I am sure there are many, many more.
This is the general pattern for browser games; healthy active young people are generally out there in the real world...
So there are many, many people who come to the game for solace - for a pleasant distraction from the unpleasantness of real life.
As they grow to feel competent at the game, it gives them a feel-good - so if the Devs keep pulling the carpet from under their feet every few weeks, they can never settle to just enjoy it; they constantly need to keep learning a new style.

A very larger number of my players DO NOT WANT THAT!
They do not want everything to keep changing; they would like to settle down and play the way they know for months at a time.
They would like to wake up in the morning and click the buttons mindlessly; placing a building here and starting a few factory runs; catering and fighting a few encounters.
They do not want to have to start all over again, regularly, learning how to play all over again!
They would like a break from the endless repetition of game changes; they would like to play the game they know, the way they know - without having to relearn it every three weeks.
They would like a 'holiday from change'; they would like the game to stay the same for several months!

Are the Devs aware of all this?

I wish we could pass it on to them!

J

I completely agree Jack. I am a smaller town and I relied on the trader to help me build. Especially when no one from my fellowship is on to trade with and people not in a fellowship put up bad trades. I needed that wholesaler to keep playing. If they do not fix it I will have to leave the game. I wish it was otherwise but I play in 5 worlds and have spent cash on this game for them to RUIN it? I'm not happy at all! They are going to lose customers and create a bad name for themselves. Which in turn will decrease any profit margin they have been trying to increase. I'm just bummed man because they do not listen to the feedback we give, and they should. We are the ones paying there bills. Anyways, Im hoping what you're doing will help open their eyes a bit. Thanks, and keep it up.

Galladriel

 

[DeletedUser4735]

I agree. I am beyond frustrated with this game. I work 11 hour days, am disabled, and have multiple serious health problems. I just want a relaxing, fun game that allows me to get some enjoyment out of life. The frustration I've been experiencing with Elvenar, including the Trader changes, the crap fighting system, having nearly 20,000 points summarily removed, etc. just makes it a negative experience instead of a positive. Thanks for posting this, Jack. I hope someone will listen.

 

[DeletedUser4735]

im in the same place and i rally dont like in fact i dont use this word very much but i HATE the chages with the trader and fighting is impossable very upset.

 

[DeletedUser4859]

28 votes so far. Don't think I have ever seen so many people vote so quickly

 

[DeletedUser1901]

I have kept a positive attitude during the introduction of the Orc Chapter, the Battle redesign and now I am trying to continue to stay positive and readjust my game again with the change to the wholesaler... but all of these changes are not improving the actual base concept of the game which is city building and it is starting to discourage even me, but I'm keeping my head held high for my fellowship. As an AM I feel like I should lead by example and have gotten our group through the changes without too much disruption, but man am I tired... this is a game right? I'm starting to feel like Inno needs to pay me for all the great customer support I'm providing to their payers for them...

I think you hit the nail on the head Jack when you said that they think their target market is actually not who their base players are! I didn't start this game to fight, not interested... working on getting better because of the tournaments but I really don't like it... and fighting in the world is just never going to happen for me... I want a pretty city that I can come to relax in, chat with my fellowship with, trade and get a little satisfaction for my competitive side by building and scoring points...

We need, and have been asking for, several things that would make the game more enjoyable for the player. There are to many threads out there to count with these requests... and what do we get? Fog... I don't know one person that likes it... everyone that I've seen comments from thinks it makes their monitors look like they are breaking... this is a visual game (that's what attracted me to it) so why implement something that covers up the visual aspect? On top of it all, we as a player base are intelligent enough to know that the majority of the changes we want are not difficult to do! I feel that a lot of players feel the devs just don't want this game to have any easy functionality and they don't listen to us, the players.

I have been gaming for over 20 years, online for at least 12 now... what I am seeing does not give me a warm fuzzy feeling.

I started a beta account thinking I would try to learn to fight and see what it was like for a beginner. If I walked into this game as it stands, as a new player I would have quit already and I am not through 1/2 of the first chapter. It's impossible to fight, you don't have enough resources to negotiate, you can't use the trader and there is no clear path to finding a fellowship... and why does a player HAVE to join a fellowship anyway? Maybe they don't want to, maybe they don't play well with others, maybe they are so sick of people in the real world that they just want to come to their little city and build something nice and relaxing... I do not see a clear path to player retention right now... that is not good!

I have always enjoyed the challenges of this game but it's becoming increasingly difficult to swallow the upheaval of a game that is supposed to be relaxing and enjoyable every time I turn around... fix the bugs and give the players a few features that we want. And for goodness sake, listen to your beta players!

I really want this game to continue to succeed but I am beginning to wonder if they just want to attract players, get their first purchase and hope they leave so that they can replace them with another new player that will continue the cycle... and just an fyi Inno - I don't recommend this game to any of my friends...

/rant

 

[DeletedUser5402]

I put the word out to everyone in my FS to come add their voice. I have seen the same thing about those playing Elvenar. This may just be a source of $ for the Devs but for many it has become a pleasant distraction from real life, and for some, their main source of communication with people. It let's them feel included as part of a group and gives them enjoyment in being competent and interacting in ways life does not let them anymore. I wish the devs could see Elvenar as the players do and I hope they wake up and see that they are providing something to many people who need and enjoy it. And for all the players who do see this as just a game, they will be quick to go elsewhere if Inno doesn't start listening to feedback and caring more for the general user experience.

 

[DeletedUser4881]

I think you hit the nail on the head Jack when you said that they think their target market is actually not who their base players are! I didn't start this game to fight, not interested... working on getting better because of the tournaments but I really don't like it... and fighting in the world is just never going to happen for me... I want a pretty city that I can come to relax in, chat with my fellowship with, trade and get a little satisfaction for my competitive side by building and scoring points...

I second and third that! Exactly how I feel!

 

[DeletedUser1996]

ITS TIME A REVOLT HERE IN ELVENAR !! Revolt@ to break away from or rise against constituted authority, as by open rebellion; cast off allegiance or subjection to those in authority; rebel; mutiny:
NO MORE DIAMOND BUYING - STOP THE STUPID CHANGES !

 

[Shellizzie]

Instead of fixing something that did not seem to be broken it would have been nice if they fixed something that would actually benefit us, such as the unfair cross tier trades!
Honestly this is the first game that I have played in a long time, and I enjoy it. But some of the changes are just too much. I am not into the fighting aspect, I would much prefer more of a strategy aspect to the game. Give us a challenge that we can succeed at instead of fighting we can't win.