Are there too many changes coming to the Elvenar game?

[DeletedUser5968]

Instead of fixing something that did not seem to be broken it would have been nice if they fixed something that would actually benefit us, such as the unfair cross tier trades!
Honestly this is the first game that I have played in a long time, and I enjoy it. But some of the changes are just too much. I am not into the fighting aspect, I would much prefer more of a strategy aspect to the game. Give us a challenge that we can succeed at instead of fighting we can't win.

I see nothing wrong with cross tier trading, if you do not like a trade, just do not accept it.
I always make my cross tier trades 3 star, if 1 was 16 then 1 was 10, people accept them, I would be at a loss if they did not.

Right now I need over 4k of just Mable, before I could have afforded to buy this amount, now I would have to sell several buildings plus bankrupt myself to buy that much.

 

[DeletedUser5968]

I too wish the Dev's would share their vision, I completely understand that INNO is in this to make money and I don't begrudge that, but why is it that online companies have the worst customer service EVER, is it because they can remain anonymous?

This was their support ticket reply to me from my ticket placed concerning recent trader changes:

Thank you for contacting the Elvenar support team.

We appreciate you taking the time to address your concerns regarding the recent changes to the Wholesaler. We value your feedback and will explain a little about why the Wholesaler was changed, and provide a link to our feedback for you to continue to provide feedback in order to forward to our development team.

There are a few reasons that the Wholesaler was changed in how it works:

The old Wholesaler was not very user-friendly in the amounts that were offered. We wanted to change this to tie into your Main Hall level to allow for packages that would better fit your progress in the game.In the new Wholesaler, you will notice that the prices will vary depending on the amount of goods that you purchase, this is due to us wanting to encourage players to trade more among their fellowship members and neighbors to acquire the goods they need.The old Wholesaler was not as balanced as we would have liked, which is the main reason for our recent change. The original design for the Wholesaler was a last resort feature, once you acquired all the goods from your fellowship/neighbors.The Wholesaler alteration was implemented on our Beta world in November of 2016, which never made it to our live servers at that time. We received a lot of feedback on how to improve the feature from our Beta community, and wanted to make sure that we offered the best alteration possible for our live servers. Please be aware that we are still taking feedback, and would love to continue to hear how we can improve the trading functionality even further.Also, do note that the prices will reset daily, so you will not have to worry about the prices continuing to grow over time.We hope that this explanation helps to ease you into the transition, and we will continue to provide updates as they become available on our forum. If you would like to share additional feedback, we would suggest viewing our feedback thread by clicking on the link below.

Feedback (Release Notes 1.22)

Our apologies for the inconvenience this has caused.

Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to get in touch. Have a great day!

***<<<EOR>>>***

So 'Not User Friendly' they claimed, I thought it was VERY user friendly, gave you multiple choices to get the amounts you needed, and from using it, I was quite happy on how it functioned.

Then they claim the BETA world requested the change and they had positive feedback there.
This BETA world is likely made up of players who play more often than regular players, how would their ideas be relevant to us typical players who come on a couple times a day, to break the pattern, to harvest, start production, collect, help others, do a quest, then come back on 12-24 hours later? They allow too much influence from a small group of players who have a totally different play style...

It says we are still taking feedback, but from whom, just the BETA users with their different play style?

I liked it how it was, simple functional, allowed people to use up excesses to gain items they could share with their FS, and it appears the majority of regular players agree...

 

[DeletedUser6493]

Good changes are necessary to keep people interested and playing the game. However, there does seem to be a lack of communication between players and developers. It seems to me the recent changes with the trader reflect this. The release notes say it's to "balance" the trader. That's not a good or accurate explanation. There are many of us in fellowships that use the general trader whenever possible to get goods when they aren't available from our fellowships. We use the wholesaler to fill the gap when we have no other choice and when our supply points and coins are in excess. Some things that I think were not taken into account is that some people do not have many active players as neighbors to begin with and need the wholesaler to buy more non boost goods than others. Some people can't find fellowships right away for a number of reasons and others do not wish to play in one. I don't think it's right to penalize them for this and the new trader appears to do that. I also don't think they considered that we don't just use our boosted goods for trading. We need them to activate research items, to negotiate on our map, for tournaments, to build, and to upgrade. The required amount of our boosted goods for these things hasn't been reduced as part of "balancing" the trader. And how is this going to encourage more people to play in tournaments? There are only so many goods and so many suppliers available at one time and during tournaments everyone is looking for the same thing and it makes it even more difficult to get what it needed. The wholesaler used to fill this gap but the amounts that can be bought now and the prices are extreme. I think if players and developers were able to work together before this change occurred, there could have been a much better solution that made play more enjoyable, avoided players becoming frustrated, and didn't penalize people who are not in a fellowship at the moment or do not have a good location on the map.

 

[DeletedUser1901]

There are only so many goods and so many suppliers available at one time and during tournaments everyone is looking for the same thing and it makes it even more difficult to get what it needed.

So much this... and again it ties back to the battle changes (which I am all for updating but it is now to a point that it is too difficult for most players). Everyone wants to participate but if they can't fight they negotiate... then they need more supplies to upgrade and the circle begins... I could at least help out more when I could purchase my non boosted goods when I reached my main hall capacity to help support the supply chain in my fellowship. I still can, and do, but the supply is now out of balance with the demand.... and just about everyone in my fellowship is boosted only or very close to it so our trading is pretty strong...

 

[Gath Of Baal]

but the supply is now out of balance with the demand

As the top member is 2 of the fellowships I am in, I already see a huge increase in the lower members posting trades for tier 1.. I have taken it upon myself to accept all the trades, but my surplus I had built up is now dwindling fast

 

[DeletedUser4778]

As the top member is 2 of the fellowships I am in, I already see a huge increase in the lower members posting trades for tier 1.. I have taken it upon myself to accept all the trades, but my surplus I had built up is now dwindling fast

Exactly the point I've been trying to make in other threads. My ability to help smaller cities has now diminished.

 

[Gath Of Baal]

My ability to help smaller cities has now diminished

I am a very strong supporter of helping your map neighbors grow their cities, since it benefits you in the long run.. I have put a stop to accepting outside my fellowship trades now, so that I can have and keep resources for my fellowship... Its a shame it had to come to this

 

[freddiejay78]

I am so happy the dev 's like us now free player's . I was in 71st place now 105th place in a month . My group are now free player's that equals out to about 10-12 thousand loss to the dev's a year . They will not miss it at all ! Most of my group are going to 24 hour production and most do not play but once and twice a week now . People are quitting faster then I can replace them . DEV"S TELL US WHY WE SHOULD STAY ??? The recent changes have not been for the players that have been here and supported you . They have been to make a bigger profit we all know this ! Its just like the half gallon ice cream that's now 1.75 quart . We the people are not fools!

 

[freddiejay78]

Forgot to mention . Who may I ask are we gonna trade with ? The land is over half dead already and people are still packing up . Starting to look like Detroit around my city .

 

[Gath Of Baal]

Most of my group are going to 24 hour production and most do not play but once and twice a week now

I used to do five 3 hour productions and one 9 hour production a day on 5 worlds... then it changed to two 9 hour productions a day on 5 worlds..
Now it is 3 worlds doing 1-2 day productions, and my main 2 worlds doing still at two 9 hours productions... I have stopped playing my 2nd account all together..
3 of the fellowships that I am in where once super active with chat , trade, laughter and growing, flourishing cities.. Now they seem like ghost towns, with a player dropping by every now and then to say hi in chat or post a trade..
2 of the fellowships I am in, are still very active but I can tell they are starting to drop off 1 by 1..
Soon there will be nothing left and its a shame, I have gotten to know many people in this game, and some I would call friends, but that number is shrinking at a fast rate... its a shame

 

[christyb399]

I represent a fanatical group of lovers of Elvenar - as anyone will see if they visit our Facebook group, or look at all our videos!

I have played many Browser Games, and generally I think that this is a very well designed game. And many of the recent changes have been well-considered.

But I wonder if the Development Team realise how much they are, unintentionally, upsetting people?
They still have not given a GOOD reason why it was necessary to change the wholesaler!

A large number of my players feel that it was working perfectly well - and the changes have not helped make it better in any way at all. They feel it is worse now, without benefit!
You can look at this thread if you want to see some of the minor rebellion it has caused!
(I have deleted quite a few offensive comments!!)

https://www.facebook.com/groups/165...tif_t=group_comment&notif_id=1486065623297957


What is lacking for all of us, I believe, is an insight into the Devs long-term plan for the game. If they told us where they were going, it would make individual changes much easier to understand, if one could see them as part of a bigger picture!

Now the changes are arriving will-he, nill-he every few weeks - and they force us to change the way we play.
And because we do not understand the need for change - we throw our toys out the cot and have a temper tantrum, and threaten to leave the game and never return!

There are a lot of retired or disabled people playing Elvenar: elderly, bereaved, lonely, sick and suffering from debilitating diseases. Just in my fellowships I have several who are severely depressed, two on chemotherapy who must face the real possibility of death every day, and one with a degenerative muscular condition who needs physiotherapy every day.
Those are the tip of the ice-berg; the ones I know of. I am sure there are many, many more.
This is the general pattern for browser games; healthy active young people are generally out there in the real world...
So there are many, many people who come to the game for solace - for a pleasant distraction from the unpleasantness of real life.
As they grow to feel competent at the game, it gives them a feel-good - so if the Devs keep pulling the carpet from under their feet every few weeks, they can never settle to just enjoy it; they constantly need to keep learning a new style.

A very larger number of my players DO NOT WANT THAT!
They do not want everything to keep changing; they would like to settle down and play the way they know for months at a time.
They would like to wake up in the morning and click the buttons mindlessly; placing a building here and starting a few factory runs; catering and fighting a few encounters.
They do not want to have to start all over again, regularly, learning how to play all over again!
They would like a break from the endless repetition of game changes; they would like to play the game they know, the way they know - without having to relearn it every three weeks.
They would like a 'holiday from change'; they would like the game to stay the same for several months!

Are the Devs aware of all this?

I wish we could pass it on to them!

J

I have spent a lot of real money on the game. I can afford to do so, and when it was fun didn't mind doing so. But now between not being able to "fight" and win, quests I can't do (like "complete a province", or "solve an encounter) because I get told I'm "too far ahead" in scouting and completing provinces, then the change in fighting, now the trader, I feel they cheated me out of my money.

 

[ktucker]

I haven't really heard anyone say that the change to wholesaler is fair to all players, and have yet to see anyone use empirical data to back it up. When I started playing Elvenar 10 months ago, I saw a video by the programmers that said there are multiple styles to winning, each effective. The biggest division in those is negotiating vs. fighting. This huge change to the wholesaler drastically impacts the 2 fighting styles differently and negotiators are now at a distinct disadvantage. So either the Devs need to remove that video or re-balance things by putting the trader back the way it was. It WAS user-friendly before, and these changes have little to do with user friendly and all to do with making us spend tons more on items. I would like to see them post the results from the beta change saying it was good. No one I have talked to from beta has agreed with what the Devs say about that trial. This game has been loosing more and more players, I doubt there will soon be a game left to play.

 

[Ashrem]

Fair and equal are tricky. It's possible (not even especially hard) to treat everyone equally, but it's not possible to treat everyone fairly. To treat everyone fairly you have to look into the minutia of their lives and decide what it's worth that this person plays 8 hours a day while that person plays only 1 hour a day, and this person likes this, but these people like that, while those people have arthritis, so every single extra click we insert is causing pain for them.

TLDR: You can't do anything that is "fair" to all players.

 

[ktucker]

When you are talking the 2 different majors styles of playing, people who fight mostly vs. people who negotiate mostly, you most certainly can say it isn't fair. Elvenar's own video promotes both styles. It is very easy to say that 1 of the 2 groups of players is largely targeted more than the other. One group by it's very definition uses the wholesaler more than the other. Negotiators have a larger need of it than fighters. So yes, you can say that it is unfair to all players, but especially to those who primarily negotiate like myself. Those who do like wise in my own groups have said the same thing.

 

[ktucker]

In other words, playing is now much slower, takes longer, and isn't as fun any more. ie, elvenar made a made decision here.

 

[christyb399]

I have kept a positive attitude during the introduction of the Orc Chapter, the Battle redesign and now I am trying to continue to stay positive and readjust my game again with the change to the wholesaler... but all of these changes are not improving the actual base concept of the game which is city building and it is starting to discourage even me, but I'm keeping my head held high for my fellowship. As an AM I feel like I should lead by example and have gotten our group through the changes without too much disruption, but man am I tired... this is a game right? I'm starting to feel like Inno needs to pay me for all the great customer support I'm providing to their payers for them...

I think you hit the nail on the head Jack when you said that they think their target market is actually not who their base players are! I didn't start this game to fight, not interested... working on getting better because of the tournaments but I really don't like it... and fighting in the world is just never going to happen for me... I want a pretty city that I can come to relax in, chat with my fellowship with, trade and get a little satisfaction for my competitive side by building and scoring points...

We need, and have been asking for, several things that would make the game more enjoyable for the player. There are to many threads out there to count with these requests... and what do we get? Fog... I don't know one person that likes it... everyone that I've seen comments from thinks it makes their monitors look like they are breaking... this is a visual game (that's what attracted me to it) so why implement something that covers up the visual aspect? On top of it all, we as a player base are intelligent enough to know that the majority of the changes we want are not difficult to do! I feel that a lot of players feel the devs just don't want this game to have any easy functionality and they don't listen to us, the players.

I have been gaming for over 20 years, online for at least 12 now... what I am seeing does not give me a warm fuzzy feeling.

I started a beta account thinking I would try to learn to fight and see what it was like for a beginner. If I walked into this game as it stands, as a new player I would have quit already and I am not through 1/2 of the first chapter. It's impossible to fight, you don't have enough resources to negotiate, you can't use the trader and there is no clear path to finding a fellowship... and why does a player HAVE to join a fellowship anyway? Maybe they don't want to, maybe they don't play well with others, maybe they are so sick of people in the real world that they just want to come to their little city and build something nice and relaxing... I do not see a clear path to player retention right now... that is not good!

I have always enjoyed the challenges of this game but it's becoming increasingly difficult to swallow the upheaval of a game that is supposed to be relaxing and enjoyable every time I turn around... fix the bugs and give the players a few features that we want. And for goodness sake, listen to your beta players!

I really want this game to continue to succeed but I am beginning to wonder if they just want to attract players, get their first purchase and hope they leave so that they can replace them with another new player that will continue the cycle... and just an fyi Inno - I don't recommend this game to any of my friends...

/rant

Glad you mentioned the "fog"! All day I thought something was wrong with my computer! Even went to my laptop, and decided it was my server. What a useless change!

 

[Ashrem]

When you are talking the 2 different majors styles of playing, people who fight mostly vs. people who negotiate mostly, you most certainly can say it isn't fair.

You can't. As soon as you have two individuals with competing interests, the only way to be fair to both is to devote extraordinary energy to understanding their needs and differences. When you turn that into thousands of players, each of whom would like to be number one, and would like to have a game design that supports them reaching that goal, it becomes a task that exceeds the capacity of the human race, let alone the Elvenar team.

You can treat everyone equally. You can't treat everyone fairly.

 

[DeletedUser6471]

Strongly agree! And the Devs should share their future game vision with us!

ITS TIME A REVOLT HERE IN ELVENAR !! Revolt@ to break away from or rise against constituted authority, as by open rebellion; cast off allegiance or subjection to those in authority; rebel; mutiny:
NO MORE DIAMOND BUYING - STOP THE STUPID CHANGES !

 

[DeletedUser6471]

When you are talking the 2 different majors styles of playing, people who fight mostly vs. people who negotiate mostly, you most certainly can say it isn't fair. Elvenar's own video promotes both styles. It is very easy to say that 1 of the 2 groups of players is largely targeted more than the other. One group by it's very definition uses the wholesaler more than the other. Negotiators have a larger need of it than fighters. So yes, you can say that it is unfair to all players, but especially to those who primarily negotiate like myself. Those who do like wise in my own groups have said the same thing.

I will most likely be leaving the game and telling everyone I speak to NOT to play Elvenar. Word of mouth can destroy a company and we have a message to send to the gamers of the world.

 

[freddiejay78]

From all the reading I have done so far as I see people just want the game to stop changing . If the dev's want to make changes place the changes at a new level they add at the end of the game . Even the trader could have been changed at a certain new level for only those player at that level . They are taking the easy way out and changing the whole game while people are in the middle . Players are really fed up changing the way they play this game every few weeks ! This is a written program like any other program its only as good as the programmer . Choices either they are money hungry , lazy programmers , or just plain out don't know what there doing .