How many FS per server finished(compared to last FA)

[DeletedUser12171]

You are absolutely right, Ashrem, which is why I decided to be the voice from the other side of the fence.

Also, Soggy may not mean all of the things I stated, but judging from several responses on the FA on these forums, many people seem to hold those opinions. That's why I said that my post is addressed to everyone.

 

[SoggyShorts]

3. Top FS used diamonds to win in the FA - purely assumption. How do you know that? Why do you assume that? Are you jealous of their performance? Is it that you can't figure out how they do it and so assume that they bought it with cash?

Simple, I looked at their cities. All FS that finish top 3 have quite a few players with premium buildings.
As I said, you don't need to buy badges directly, simply having a more effecient city due to magic buildings means more space. Since diamond spenders aren't stupid, we can assume they have also purchased some expansions as well. There's no envy, and it's very easy to figure out.

4. It is too hard to finish the FA - well, clearly, "hard" here is relative, because many smaller (in rank) FS did finish, and finished way ahead of many higher ranked ones

"too hard" can be interpreted 2 ways. It isn't that it is too hard(impossible), it is too hard(harder than it should be). The rewards don't justify the effort for many players, as stated on the forums the past 2 FAs, and since this one asked for double the badges, we can figure out that this one took even more effort.

5. People can't have fun/will not bother with the FA - says you. Maybe some FS simply like doing something together as a group to see how far they can get? Is this not possible? Have you talked to the FSes who finished? How do you know why and how they did what they did?

Yes, Yes, and Yes.
Obviously some FS enjoyed it. The point is that not enough FS enjoyed it, or else more would have finished it.

 

[DeletedUser9601]

3. Top FS used diamonds to win in the FA - purely assumption. How do you know that? Why do you assume that? Are you jealous of their performance? Is it that you can't figure out how they do it and so assume that they bought it with cash?

I think you could figure that out quite easily, and it takes very little assuming. Look at winning fellowships. Do they have magic residences, or workshops, or level 5 builders, or extra expansions? Do they have diamond-only culture buildings? If people have any of these, you are at least indirectly using diamonds to win the FA. And this stuff is pretty easy to figure out. Yes, Inno gives some diamonds for free, but not enough for more than 1 or 2 of the above.

How, you say? Well, all things being equal, if I have entirely magic residences and you have normal residences, we have the "same" city but I have dozens of extra squares, because magic residences provide more pop/sq. So now I can use that extra space to place level 1 workshops, and cycle more quests than you can (assume we play the same amount).

Am I winning a victory with cash? I'd say yes. Especially in a world where so much of the FA depended on 24 and 48 hour builds, and were limited by spells.

I wouldn't ascribe jealousy to @SoggyShorts. I think he and many others have lots of problems with the FAs that have been covered in a half-dozen other threads, but there are so many bigger, more fundamental issues with FAs than the simple fact that some FSes paid money to win.

You're right that some FSes could win, or at least compete for a top spot with entirely F2P player bases. But its such an uphill climb for a poor reward that most people didn't participate.

 

[SoggyShorts]

judging from several responses on the FA on these forums, many people seem to hold those opinions.

Granted, there have been posts saying that the FA is impossible, and only diamond players can finish.
I figure those are from players in small (6-8 members) that are fairly new, and from thier perspective it might seem close to impossible.

Note: I may type slower than Ashrem, but it looks like I beat Tedious

 

[DeletedUser9601]

You are absolutely right, Ashrem, which is why I decided to be the voice from the other side of the fence.

Also, Soggy may not mean all of the things I stated, but judging from several responses on the FA on these forums, many people seem to hold those opinions. That's why I said that my post is addressed to everyone.

I do appreciate this perspective, because I do think in other threads there's too much "hate" on FAs. They're entirely optional, and while we may not see much value to them, Inno clearly does. So if FAs are a huge cash cow for the company, let them keep running them until people stop playing them. While it seems counter-intuitive, more money to Inno from diamond-buyers means more resources to improve the game.

 

[DeletedUser9601]

Note: I may type slower than Ashrem, but it looks like I beat Tedious

Here comes another forum-rules demerit, likely this time for "typing too slow"!

 

[DeletedUser3602]

Frankly using US4 as an example I don't understand at all what the FS who ranked 5 through 35 were doing. They were more than 10,000 points behind 3rd place, and well over the minimum points to finish. Where they really fighting over who gets a 5h vs 8h timer buff?

My FS is on US4 and we ranked #14. We weren't fighting over a 5h or 8h timer buff, we were just playing to see how high we could finish. When you're running a marathon in real life you also want to 1. finish and 2. beat the person in front of you. When we decided we would participate in the FA, we did the best we could. It was very good for the team spirit that we finished in the top 20, but I think we only finished at #14, because so many other FS's didn't bother. So thanks for scaring everyone away Soggy & Co.,

 

[DeletedUser12171]

I don't dispute that players who have purchased more expansions with diamonds have the advantage of more space for more workshops and T1 factories, thus giving them an advantage. But are there not people claiming that the FA are simply an economic benefit for Inno? By inference this would mean people spent a significant amount of diamonds during the FA

No one should be judged in this game for buying expansions and magic res/ws since it's their business what they want to do with their money. I think we can agree on this. Expansions, magic res/ws give an overall advantage on everything in the game, as they are designed to. So that's that. Even the MA badges - people could have timed rounds 3/4

Assuming that FS do well in FA specifically because they spend money on it - still only an assumption. And a smelly one too if you're doing it with some sense of scorn. And an injustice to those who do well without "spending a lot of diamonds".

(disclaimer - none of this is targeted at anyone but based on what I've seen in FA-related threads so far)

 

[shimmerfly]

The entire thing is was just plain BLAH. Only good thing was the artwork.
@RandomNo. Have you actually read all the posts of how many people did not like it? There are well over 46 pages of posts who did not. I'm sure some had fun but they are hard to find in the forum and some people have fun tying their shoelaces
No offense meant!

 

[DeletedUser12171]

The entire thing is was just plain BLAH. Only good thing was the artwork.
@RandomNo. Have you actually read all the posts of how many people did not like it? There are well over 46 pages of posts who did not. I'm sure some had fun but they are hard to find in the forum and some people have fun tying their shoelaces
No offense meant!

I have read the responses and found them to be so one-sided that I decided to say something to the opposite tune

to be sure, I'm not just trying to pick a fight here by going against what everyone says. I do agree with some of the points, especially regarding the underwhelming prizes and the game interface. I am neutral about awarding only the top 3 with special buildings. I don't find this system to be bad. If they expand the range of finalists to be awarded top prizes - great! If they don't? Well, it's a competition, what do you expect? In the Olympics, only the top 3 get a medal and I don't see anyone complaining about that.

 

[SoggyShorts]

But are there not people claiming that the FA are simply an economic benefit for Inno? By inference this would mean people spent a significant amount of diamonds during the FA

Everything is done to provide an economic benefit for inno, and that's fine. But creating something that on the player side only benefits the top spenders is lame.

Also, one could instead infer that a set up like the FA provides incentive for top spenders to continue spending as it is required to win.

 

[DeletedUser9601]

(disclaimer - none of this is targeted at anyone but based on what I've seen in FA-related threads so far)

I agree that its lame that nearly every event has person X saying "this can only be won with diamonds!" or something else silly. It was especially prevalent in the Winter Event over some of the quests, and not winning daily prizes. But it has really been over the top re: this FA.

 

[Ashrem]

But are there not people claiming that the FA are simply an economic benefit for Inno?

To think otherwise is to betray a poor understanding of corporate economics. Everything Inno does is (in the end) designed to bring in more money. That is their reason for existing, and that is their legal obligation to their shareholders. Inno will always cater to those who are spending money. When they do it too obviously, it will frustrate some people who don't understand that the only reason they get to play for free is because someone else is spending money.

To expect that the forums will represent a balanced viewpoint is a bit naive, really. People come to the forums for one of three reasons: 1) they enjoy forums, 2) they need help, and 3) they are unhappy. Almost never because they are they are happy. The happy ones are playing the game.

So, yes, some people are saying that the design is catering solely to diamond spenders. Others are saying that it is catering too much to diamond spenders. (I've not doubt there are some who think they are catering exactly enough to diamond spenders, and others who don't think they are catering enough to diamond spenders, but those groups tend to keep quiet in public because they'll get piled on by the other groups. Their complaints will be almost exclusively made via direct in-game tickets, where they don't have to risk being shamed. Inno will get a feel for which way the weighting runs and make their decisions accordingly.

 

[DeletedUser9601]

only thing is, people don't buy expansions, magic res/ws and upgrade their MA just to win the FA, so why is this even an issue when discussing the FA?

Because the FA is the only structure where Player A wins a prize at the expense of Player B. During seasonal events, etc., I am not harmed by Player A's diamond spending. I can win the same prizes. But during the FA, "there can be only one" [err, 3], and when those 3 prizes are really the only worthwhile, is why some folks who are F2P get upset.

 

[DeletedUser12171]

Everything is done to provide an economic benefit for inno, and that's fine. But creating something that on the player side only benefits the top spenders is lame.

Also, one could instead infer that a set up like the FA provides incentive for top spenders to continue spending as it is required to win.

only thing is, people don't buy expansions, magic res/ws and upgrade their MA just to win the FA, so why is this even an issue when discussing the FA?

talking about "on the player side" - if you put it that way, then nothing should be made possible with diamonds and this should be a free-to-play-only game.

E.g.

Statement 1: "My FS can get a blueprint each week in tournaments using many diamonds."
Statement 2: "My FS can get a blueprint each week in tournaments if we all put in the effort to hit 1600 points or more"

Since statement 1 is true, tournaments are lame? Is statement 2 harder? Yes, perhaps. But it's doable and possible.

 

[Ashrem]

If I play well, and devote a big chunk of my city to the FA, and all of my fellowship does as well, we still won't be able to win one of the top three spots. We tried it the first two times, and some of our members spent more diamonds than they intended to, and we settled for around 30th place. This time, we decided as a group not to bother, because anything other than top three wasn't worth the effort, and getting the top 3 was not within our reach. That's a design weakness.

Statement 1: "My FS can get a blueprint each week in tournaments using many diamonds."
Statement 2: "My FS can get a blueprint each week in tournaments if we all put in the effort to hit 1600 points or more"

Since statement 1 is true, tournaments are lame? Is statement 2 harder? Yes, perhaps. But it's doable and possible.

No. Because statement two is not particularly difficult. Placing in the top three of the FA without spending diamonds is particularly difficult, to the point that I don't believe it has ever happened.

 

[DeletedUser12171]

Just a thought, what if Inno made it diamond-free so there'd be no option to fill the waypoints using diamonds. Of course, those who already have diamond-bought expansions/res/ws/MA already have some advantage, but I wonder how much of a difference would it make to FA rankings?

 

[DeletedUser9601]

Just a thought, what if Inno made it diamond-free so there'd be no option to fill the waypoints using diamonds. Of course, those who already have diamond-bought expansions/res/ws/MA already have some advantage, but I wonder how much of a difference would it make to FA rankings?

Hard to say. I'd think pretty significant still. Figure a level 5 MA means you're cooking spells for the badges more than twice as fast. Like Ashrem said, a F2P FS could delete all of its real buildings to functionally have tons of space for buildings, but so could the diamond FS.

I think the thought experiment isn't really needed though. I want people to be able to sink diamonds into FAs, and make Inno money, so Inno can keep the game running. I just want to see some structure where getting 4th, or 10th, or 40th still gives you something meaningful.

Your point about the Olympics isn't quite right. Sure, 4th place doesn't get a medal. But they don't get nothing of value. They still get endorsements, and popularity, and future career success as a coach or trainer. Same with the Tournament. Getting the 10th chest is easier with diamonds, but there's no outcry, because if you "only" get the 9th chest, you still get a ton of KP, a ton of runes, a ton of spells, etc.

I think in a world where the prize differences aren't so staggering, you're going to have waaay less complaints about diamonds in the FA. Yes, there will still be some. But those people will always complain, even if it only costs an extra $1 of diamonds.

 

[DeletedUser5521]

In the Olympics, only the top 3 get a medal and I don't see anyone complaining about that.

You would seriously play the "Olympics" card here? C'mon, RandomNo. That just wiped out all credibility to your counter-points. Hurry up and edit that out before anyone else sees it..

 

[DeletedUser12171]

You would seriously play the "Olympics" card here? C'mon, RandomNo. That just wiped out all credibility to your counter-points. Hurry up and edit that out before anyone else sees it..

I don't see why not. My point was that this was a competition and not everyone gets the same prize in a competition. Inno deliberately made it so. Don't like it? well, there have already been dozens of posts raising this as feedback, so yeah, let's see if they do take it. If they don't, you can simply not take part, no biggie.