How many FS per server finished(compared to last FA)

[DeletedUser5521]

I don't see why not. My point was that this was a competition and not everyone gets the same prize in a competition. Inno deliberately made it so. Don't like it? well, there have already been dozens of posts raising this as feedback, so yeah, let's see if they do take it. If they don't, you can simply not take part, no biggie.

The "why not" is because this is a game that people play simply because they enjoy playing it, not the Olympics that the Best of the Best have dedicated their lives and bodies to, many since they were tiny humans. To use the Gold, Silver, and Bronze of the Olympics to support your counter-point to the rewards for the FA? Competition or not, it's really not a reasonable comparison.**

**This statement is the opinion of the poster and not necessarily that of the host site or INNO games. All opinions are subject to interpretation, and should not be considered statements of fact. Do not take without the advice of your physician..

 

[DeletedUser5800]

If they don't, you can simply not take part, no biggie.

Rather than respond to everything, for the sake of keeping it short, I'll just say I read all of that and go from there.

I have possibly said DOOM the loudest and longest but note if you read through all of the various dooms I have said my issue is not with the spenders, nor even with a design that promotes spending, my issue is with the way the incentive is designed to pit fellows good will against each others wallets. I even suggested a better way for INNO to get paid would be to alot the top 3 prizes by % rather than limit it to 3. i.e. Top 1-2% gets prize one, Top 3-5% gets prize two, Top 6-10% gets prize three. This would get more people in the race instead of discouraging people. Several that now just think we won't get the top 3 would probably try for top 10% etc. I further have said that they should reduce the badges by enough of a percentage to make it solo doable and separate it from FS, just make it an Adventure... so if some want to go for it and others don't it isn't ripping FS apart.

Imagine how that would go, everyone had their own Adventure map that only they contribute to and the goal is to finish in the top x%, that not only levels the chances for anyone to plan well or spend a lot but also pits the top against others in their own FS (by individual choice) which I think would cause greater spending.

My issue has never been with spending, I have some premium expansions, I'm in a page 2 FS, ranked in the top 60, though I do not and will never have magic buildings just because they are blue (yuk if I buy it I should at least be able to pick from 5 colors or something! (another matter))... My issue is with the way they play teammates against each other to encourage the spending, the way they have over time tweaked every metric to group the spenders together just to facilitate this psycological factor the most, the way it appears this was always the plan (though I really don't give them that much credit, like any good conspiracy theory it can be logically explained by them looking at what caused a spending bump and going further in that direction leading to the same result as a master plan over time). I find it disturbs the entire game feel when you are given the options to be in Group A (spenders) and win or Group B (free) and lose.. OR (and this is important) Group C (spender that hangs out with some free) and lose because you didn't encourage them to spend.

All that aside it's also just stupid to offer Traveling Merchants since this will benifit mostly solo style players or people in FS with a poor market which are the least likely to participate at a win level anyway. Perhaps they would be a more suitable prize for the solo Adventure I described above.

General Conclusion: This game either needs to go with more solo metrics and abandon the 'all about FS mentality' so all of the spenders can actually compete with each other and a well planned/lots of time here person can still have a shot regardless of the FS they happen to reside in, or it needs to calm down on the not so well hidden intention of getting whole groups to encourage each other to break out the Credit Card (including the unspoken pressure of trying to keep up for those that cannot spend the time). Much like if I were on a basketball team and could buy extra points, you can bet my team mates would feel like they should be also whether I say it or not. There is just no ethical justification for this metric as a group event. It should be solo or scrapped... I'm tired of every FA depressing gameplay, causing rifts, people quitting FS all the while discouraging spending from people in non-spending FS because they aren't willing to buy the whole thing themselves or push fellows to spend. It's all an unnecessary scam that could be eliminated and have better results to their bottom line. IMO.

*See how I kept that short.

 

[shimmerfly]

So well said, written and agreed to!

 

[SoggyShorts]

Statement 1: "My FS can get a blueprint each week in tournaments using many diamonds."
Statement 2: "My FS can get a blueprint each week in tournaments if we all put in the effort to hit 1600 points or more"
Since statement 1 is true, tournaments are lame? Is statement 2 harder? Yes, perhaps. But it's doable and possible.

Not a fair comparisson at all.
If only the top 3 FS in each tournament got a blueprint, then it would be the same.

I would absolutely love it if the top prizes were awarded based only on how many points my FS gets.
I can accept that that would hurt inno profits, so instead I suggest that they either reduce the overall effort required, or increase the other rewards to make completing it worth it.(preferably both, within reason)

you can simply not take part, no biggie.

I have a real hard time with the "events are optional" idea.
There are mainly 4 things to do in Elvenar as you design your city and interact with others:
1. Progress along the tech tree
2. Tournaments
3. Events
4. FA
If you are techlocked and between events, the game really doesn't have that much to offer.
If 1/4 of the above sucks, you can't just ignore it, unless you want to accept that you are only playing part of the game.

In the Olympics, only the top 3 get a medal and I don't see anyone complaining about that.

Now imagine if you knew for a fact that there were 10 or more competitors on steroids, how much incentive would there be for you to run against them? Of course you can train really hard, but so can they.
If there was a decent prize for 12th place, or 20th place, sure, but just gold silver and bronze?
You need to at least enjoy running. Giving us shoes and/or clearing the tracks of broken glass might be a start.

 

[DeletedUser12171]

so simply put, "some people" don't want a competition in this game. OK I get it but personally I don't mind a competition. And I am sure "other people" don't mind it too.

Lord Draco - how about a Group D - spenders who hang out with some free and win because you worked together. Spenders are everywhere in the game, up and down the FS ranking ladder, inside and outside of so-called "Diamond-Only" FS. Rather than saying the FA is worth playing or can be won only by spenders, I think what is closer to the truth would probably be that the winning FS have both some who spent and some who didn't, on the FA.

 

[SoulsSilhouette]

I am the archmage of my Khelonaar fellowship The Misfits. We finished 110 and it looks like last time we finished 113. Last time, we had six out of 25 of our fellowship participate. There were issues and some people who disappeared. This time we had 16 participants, at the very least and didnt do much better due to the badges that were necessary. We have some beginning players to really advanced players. I'm proud of us because we weren't doing it for the global ranking points. We don't stand a chance against some of the fellowships that have a full cohort of advanced players. I am more about our participation versus where we end up against other fellowships. I feel that way with the tournaments too. I want prizes and payouts that actually help our lower ranking members to grow and enjoy the game. The badges are grinders. The fact that all tier one's are necessary now for quests and for the FA changes the game. I don't mind having the tier one group, but the sheer number of badges was really ridiculous for fellowships like mine. We got to the third stage but didn't get past the first waypoint because I didn't want anyone putting in diamonds for something that we weren't going to get any reward for. In fact, for any group venture, I don't really want anyone putting diamonds in. I can't stop them, but I certainly don't encourage it. If they do it for their own personal game gain, then fine. I think using diamonds to advance and get ahead the way some people do, although I'm sure INNO loves it, is an anathema to what a GAME is supposed to be. It's like the 'fix is in'. If the next FA looks like this, I doubt that we will participate at all. One of my members didn't even get the rewards for it. One that I know of. Some sort of glitch that I'm sure will be completely disregarded if they do put in a ticket for it.

 

[Rayloff]

Our fellowship completed all 3 stages in Felyndral with only 6 hours to spare, placed #28.We all agreed this was much more challenging compared to previous FA. Was hoping the prizes would have been worth the effort but was way off the mark. The description of the building was that it produces a decent amount on non boosted goods. I hope they make a fix to these buildings to come close to a decent amount per chapter. Being on chapter 11 (the last chapter) and having a building that produces 540 marble in 9 hours is far from decent, pretty much a waste of space, I will probably hold on to the building in hopes of all hopes they hear the cry's and frustrations of most fellowships that put in so much effort and make an update to these sad sad little buildings.

 

[dikke ikke]

As far as I know, the fS I am part of on server US3 did not use diamonds and won the FA, we had a solid organisation and because many players were at the end of a guess race level, there was plenty of room for workshops and t1 factories

 

[Ashrem]

In the Olympics, only the top 3 get a medal and I don't see anyone complaining about that.

If coming in 20th in the Fellowship adventure, but first in your county, were going to lead to the adulation of crowds back home, a lucrative career in sports and possibly making a few extra million dollars in corporate endorsements, I don't think anyone would be complaining about it here, either.

 

[DeletedUser9601]

This game either needs to go with more solo metrics and abandon the 'all about FS mentality' so all of the spenders can actually compete with each other and a well planned/lots of time here person can still have a shot regardless of the FS they happen to reside in, or it needs to calm down on the not so well hidden intention of getting whole groups to encourage each other to break out the Credit Card (including the unspoken pressure of trying to keep up for those that cannot spend the time).

This is a great point being under-discussed. I had a few folks in current and old FSes say that they spent $100+ because they were AFK for the majority of the FA, and wanted to contribute. I'm not wired that way, so I wouldn't fall into this pressure. But some people do, and I don't want a game that preys on that.

 

[Xelenia]

Just a friendly reminder, the forum rules still apply in this thread

Happy Discussing!
~Xelenia

 

[The Unbeliever]

so simply put, "some people" don't want a competition in this game. OK I get it but personally I don't mind a competition. And I am sure "other people" don't mind it too.

The issue is not "some people" don't want a competition, but rather, 'many of us are peeved because the competition is heavily rigged, AND, the rewards outside of the top are pure garbage.

And to add insult to injury this time around, some fellowships got royally screwed over due to Inno's own incompetence of;
a) not giving us back the 1+ days that were missed due the FA being bugged to gak
b) effectively saying, "oops, sucks to be you!" to those fellowships who were in the race for a top 3 spot, but got hosed by the FA freezing up/Pit disappearing/etc..., which lost them a top 3, (or top 10, or even dropped them out of the top 50 altogether!)

Fellowship Adventures are a joke of a competition in all honesty...
Imagine a race, but with;
- 3 people get told to start 1000ft behind everyone else
- 2 people have to hop on 1 foot
- 5 people can run the race as normal
- 3 people get a 10 second head start, but have to jump over hurdles because of that
- 1 person gets a rocket booster strapped to their back just for added lulz!

That's what this most recent FA especially felt like.

 

[Ashrem]

I'm willing to admit I don't want the game to be about competition, but that ship sailed a long time ago. What I want is an adventure, and if the adventure can't be adventurous, I want it to offer me prizes worth having.

 

[DeletedUser13002]

I'm willing to admit I don't want the game to be about competition, but that ship sailed a long time ago. What I want is an adventure, and if the adventure can't be adventurous, I want it to offer me prizes worth having.

You hit on another notable point here. What exactly is the purpose of these things? Contrary to what RandomNo says, "most" people don't mind a little friendly competition between the fellowships at all. Ranking races can be a lot of fun. But this didn't accomplish that. It wasn't fun; it was stressful. It wasn't worth the prizes offered. And by many accounts, too much of the competitive (read: combative) spirit arose between many members of the same fellowships.

So then, it failed as a competition. It isn't in the least bit "adventurous." It no longer provides the sort of decent rewards one gets from either events or fellowships. So what sort of experience, exactly, are they trying to provide for their players here? Who benefits? Again, they're not offering anything that's worth paying for, so they can't be getting as much monetary return as they would if they set more reasonable challenges for better prizes out there for everyone—meaning it's not just the players getting the short end. They're shooting themselves in the foot (whether they realize it or not). It's a lose-lose situation.

One would think they'd recognize this, and adjust the next FA to compensate. (Not to mention they've asked us for feedback on this. If they're not going to listen, they shouldn't tease their clientele like that.)

 

[DeletedUser2424]

Let me preface this with saying I read only page 1 and skimmed page 2.

I think this FA was a way to keep the people waiting on Elementals engaged. 3 of the 4 fellowships that finished in the top 4 spots in Khelonaar all have a high percentage of members waiting... They had space from guest race buildings to allocate. I don't think the FS Adventure will ever be something for all fellowships... I think it's mostly there as something todo while waiting on guest races. And i think from that perspective... they kind of did everyone a solid by having subpar rewards. If the rewards were great it'd be a "man the FA are all about the rich getting richer" type of complaint. So, yes while the FA needs hella work as already been detailed elsewhere. I think the reason thats the reason for so many fewer fellowships participating...

I enjoyed this FA... but only because
A) I wasn't working on a guest race and
B) I'm a member of the top ranked fellowship and we have enough addicts (or as I like to call them "rockstars") to be competitive.

If it weren't for those two conditions I would haven't considered jacking up my city for the reward. For me and based on my exchanges with the other fellowships which did well I congratulated... I heard multiple times the reason they liked it was the unification and subsequent fellowship pride. (And in case you're wondering we came in 4th and got no buildings)

Simple, I looked at their cities. All FS that finish top 3 have quite a few players with premium buildings.
As I said, you don't need to buy badges directly, simply having a more effecient city due to magic buildings means more space. Since diamond spenders aren't stupid, we can assume they have also purchased some expansions as well. There's no envy, and it's very easy to figure out.

"too hard" can be interpreted 2 ways. It isn't that it is too hard(impossible), it is too hard(harder than it should be). The rewards don't justify the effort for many players, as stated on the forums the past 2 FAs, and since this one asked for double the badges, we can figure out that this one took even more effort.


Yes, Yes, and Yes.
Obviously some FS enjoyed it. The point is that not enough FS enjoyed it, or else more would have finished it.

I have reason to believe that StilMyst IV didn't use any diamonds on the fellowship adventure. They did a remarkable job and won by working together better than any other fellowship and in total allocating somewhere around 200-300 more workshops + tier1 than any other fellowship. Those guys/gals did awesome and I fully tip my hat to them.

Statement 1: "My FS can get a blueprint each week in tournaments using many diamonds."
Statement 2: "My FS can get a blueprint each week in tournaments if we all put in the effort to hit 1600 points or more"

Since statement 1 is true, tournaments are lame? Is statement 2 harder? Yes, perhaps. But it's doable and possible.

Not sure where this comment was going but just thought I'd say that Lunatics With Weapons does not spend diamonds (to the best of my knowledge) each week on getting all 10 chests. That being said... I think for us getting 10 chests is too easy... and it's too hard for everyone else.

 

[Ashrem]

And i think from that perspective... they kind of did everyone a solid by having subpar rewards. If the rewards were great it'd be a "man the FA are all about the rich getting richer" type of complaint.

I find this hard to grasp. The problem is that the rewards for everyone except the top three are sub par. That creates a two-tiered system, where the event is annoying unless you are going to go all in and win.

 

[DeletedUser10114]

Let me preface this with saying I read only page 1 and skimmed page 2.

I think this FA was a way to keep the people waiting on Elementals engaged. 3 of the 4 fellowships that finished in the top 4 spots in Khelonaar all have a high percentage of members waiting... They had space from guest race buildings to allocate. I don't think the FS Adventure will ever be something for all fellowships... I think it's mostly there as something todo while waiting on guest races. And i think from that perspective... they kind of did everyone a solid by having subpar rewards. If the rewards were great it'd be a "man the FA are all about the rich getting richer" type of complaint. So, yes while the FA needs hella work as already been detailed elsewhere. I think the reason thats the reason for so many fewer fellowships participating...

I enjoyed this FA... but only because
A) I wasn't working on a guest race and
B) I'm a member of the top ranked fellowship and we have enough addicts (or as I like to call them "rockstars") to be competitive.

If it weren't for those two conditions I would haven't considered jacking up my city for the reward. For me and based on my exchanges with the other fellowships which did well I congratulated... I heard multiple times the reason they liked it was the unification and subsequent fellowship pride. (And in case you're wondering we came in 4th and got no buildings)



I have reason to believe that StilMyst IV didn't use any diamonds on the fellowship adventure. They did a remarkable job and won by working together better than any other fellowship and in total allocating somewhere around 200-300 more workshops + tier1 than any other fellowship. Those guys/gals did awesome and I fully tip my hat to them.



Not sure where this comment was going but just thought I'd say that Lunatics With Weapons does not spend diamonds (to the best of my knowledge) each week on getting all 10 chests. That being said... I think for us getting 10 chests is too easy... and it's too hard for everyone else.

Fas, I assume by everyone you meant...? I know of 5 or 6 FS on E doing 10 chests every week and a couple doing every other. Grats on 10 chests! I think one issue is that many are not able to cull their FS without a bunch of hurt feelings. Just because city ABC logs on 3 days a week does not make him or her a tournament player. But if you remove them and havent given the whole crew a clear standard you get a lotta beef.

 

[MirandaZink]

The event was too hard for lots of people, not all people. The event was not fun for lots of people, not all people.

Amen - here's the thing, I don't care if people want to spend 10 million dollars to get to first place. Frankly I'm not sure there are too many FS who care about that but want to get in the top 25-35~ to get "decent" instants and finish. But it wasn't fun. It takes up WAY too much room. It's a full time job which, thanks but no thanks I already have a full time job . . .

1. Get rid of the multi one tier badges. Building non-boosted factories, in principle, goes against the point of the game. (trade)
2. You could add trading badges to compensate for removing these AND those kinds of badges I'm not waiting 2 days for.
3. If you're going to demand hundreds of 1 day supply badges and spells then the time to achieve till the end either needs to be increased or reduce the number of those badges. Setting impossible goals only pisses people off.
4. Figure out how to engage others - again the point of this game, social interactions

Visit 10 people in your world
Write a email to a mage or archmage in your area
Explore a new territory and then visit the new person you discovered​

5. Running multiple events side by side - winter, that last thing with the crappy prizes, and then Adventures (again with crappy prizes), + tournaments also wears thin on the masses. Give us some space and breathing room.

Overall the adventure is a good idea. It's just executed poorly in terms of space and time.

Lastly, my FS has voted and we're NOT participating again. So good luck to everyone else on the next Fellowship Adventure . . .

​

 

[EarthbornIcarus]

I'm sorry I don't have stats for you, but on US7, Ceravyn, my fs finished in top 6 in the first two FA. This time, it was heartbreaking to watch them not even make it through. Adventure? NOPE. Ruse? yep.

Reading tons of responses on Gems & other FB Elvenar groups- made it clear that this event was an epic FAIL in terms of group morale and desire to ever do them again. I'm letting my fs skip the next one entirely, until Inno gets its game together.
On Arendyl, an fs that came in 2 last time, watched as last minute, several FS's rocketed up the charts in the last day in the Pit...and the only way they could accomplish that is buy buy buy. When you see points going up by the thousands in ten minutes...Its not a fair game, it doesn't matter how well your fellowship worked together on the event...they cant win unless they tithe unbelievable amounts to Inno for the "privilege".

To me, this is entirely a false win. They should call it the Inno Funding Drive Event, as thats what it really is.
Win the number 1!! , just give us all your money!....lol
My view about-faced whether these events are good for players, they are a honey-trap for Inno to spin players desire-to-help-their-fellowship into gold.

Shame on Inno-

---making money on a game is fine, (I buy lots of diamonds)- but this relentless drive of events back-to-back with Tourneys.....(Not to mention how blatantly they don't care about our lives and the ungodly amounts of time it actually takes shackled to the game in order to win one of these events....)
I would like to have more freedom and more choices about how I play and I would - if not tethered to others that depend on my participation. The only recourse I can see is to opt out of playing the side-events at all, and just choose carefully when and if to opt-in to any event.

The Prizes? NOPE. Crap. Not worth our time. Do your job, create new prizes for each event ! Let us get exited over beautiful new buildings!
The badge chain-gang approach? Nope- FAIL. When a top fs cant even make it through unless buying them? We won't be doing any more until Inno reels in its unsavory appetite for stirring up diamond-buying frenzys among good players who don't want to let their fellows down.

Well, I'm happy to let Inno down, and NOT participate in their thinly veiled grabs for our wallets. Next perhaps they will offer direct-bank withdrawals, so they can siphon off every last cent from the poor fellows seeking to do well by their mages and arches.

Its a great game, and I love the world they built, but they are ruining it! with UN-generosity towards the players.
I would gladly pay them- to stop ruining it.

Please Inno, make it fun again.

 

[EarthbornIcarus]

You would seriously play the "Olympics" card here? C'mon, RandomNo. That just wiped out all credibility to your counter-points. Hurry up and edit that out before anyone else sees it..

LOL!
Also, the Olympics are not structured by "Pay-more-to win" they are strictly monitered to make the playing fields fair to all comers. It is only hard work and talent that wins, you cannot pay the Olympics and extra sum to make sure your team wins gold!

Sweet Cheesuz!!