High level chapters are literally TOO MUCH

[satchmo33]

I'm snarled and tangled in the ch15 web and the spider is approaching! Chapters 15, 16, and 17 just aren't worth the angst, trouble, WORK, and city-chewing-up involved. They are Just. Too. Hard. BUT - they're needed in order for your city to progress through upgrading. Catch-22. (which I am just now re-reading for the kazillionth time).

Players are dropping like flies from this game because of this. Doesn't Inno GET it that they're LOSING MONEY?????? Ease up, guys and you'll lose fewer players (and money - after all, that's your entire reason for existing, right?)

I would SO leave this game entirely if I didn't enjoy my FS so much and have so many years (five? six?) invested.

 

[SoggyShorts]

Are you using portal profits?
I found 15 to be a little slow and pretty brutal on sentient goods, but as soon as you get your portal to level 4 it's over and you can just PP through the second half.

I haven't bothered with 16 though....

 

[mikeledo]

You can do chapters slowly and take your time. That way they are not such a burden. And once you get down with the chapter, you then update everything rather than attempt to do it while in the chapter. Some exceptions, like chapter 17 MH must be updated to progress. Well over 10% of the top 100 players where I play have taken a break. I haven't heard any of them say it was because of the toughness of chapters. It appears RL is the issue. Also when 1 guy with several dozen alts stops playing or cities in 6 worlds it looks massive.

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

Chapter 15 has two speeds. First is super slow until you have researched all the guest race buildings. Once you are past the Vault of Wisdom, you then shift into high gear and sell every guest race building other than the portal, which is already maxed at level 4, of course, and the only guest race goods you will need are the ones that can be made with portal profits. At that point, if you have enough for all the goods the rest of the chapter needs, all you have to worry about is the sentient goods and the seeds to make them.

 

[T.H.O.R.]

It wouldn't be as bad if they stop deteriorating the sentient goods.
I have been using portal profits through CH 15 also.

 

[StarLoad]

... all you have to worry about is the sentient goods and the seeds to make them.

and that is like nothing to lose sleep-over it's only, and remember you must trade for your non-boosted good in a market that is all warm and fuzzy.
Moonstone Platinum TreeGum Obsidian Arcane Ink Royal Velvet Silly Soap Alloy Shrooms Cosmic Bismuth
195,000 --- 175,000 --- 185,000 - 525,000 -- 525,000 -- 525,000 -- 1,945,000 --- 1,750,000 -- 2,165,000

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

It wouldn't be as bad if they stop deteriorating the sentient goods.
I have been using portal profits through CH 15 also.

My trick for that in chapter 15 was to use MMs on all my boosted sentient goods, feed my Storm Phoenix, and then use time boosters to collect my goods before decay, and then use all the goods to complete a research or start a building upgrading. This saved me many extra days of production.

@ed1960 Yep. And I would make my collections a few hours before decay just so I could post up trades for the non-boosted sentients I needed. On Arendyll, it was rare to not get what I needed before decay time hit. But Arendyll being the oldest server helped me in this. I am sure other servers are not as well balanced or as well populated by late-game cities.

Chapter 15 took me just under 4 months from start to finish.

 

[satchmo33]

All of my ch15 buildings are level 4. AND I've maxed out the portal profits with scads more in inventory. I'm doing it "right" and it's STILL asking for 'way to much mushrooms, bismuth, obsidian, etc. etc. More than I can produce by manufactUring and trading.

 

[Deleted User - 1178646]

All of my ch15 buildings are level 4. AND I've maxed out the portal profits with scads more in inventory. I'm doing it "right" and it's STILL asking for 'way to much mushrooms, bismuth, obsidian, etc. etc. More than I can produce by manufactUring and trading.

build more T6, you can't get away with 1 factory,
I also wonder what you have 4 magic dust, 1 gems and 1 elixer factory?
Why the elixer factory?

With the teleport spells it's very easy to swap in and out factories as needed.
Why don't you store that elixer factory and 2 magic dus factories and use 4 T6 for example?

Once you're finished with the chapter you store the access T6 factories and set your original factories back if you want from your inventory.
With the teleport spells it doesn't really matter anymore what you need, whatever a chapter demands you just swap the needed buildings from your inventory to your city and back.

 

[ajqtrz]

I'm in chapter 16. I've been in that chapter for months but most of the time I've just spent upgrading everything in my city, doing FA's and so on. In other words, I don't expect to finish any time soon. And that's okay.

As for losing money? Hmmm.... If you think about it, the longer a player plays the more likely they are to drop out. And if the chapters get difficult they may just stop doing them .... and then, perhaps, drop out. The point is the higher the chapter the less people there probably are to do that chapter and thus....less revenues.....from that chapter. Eventually, as I've suggested before, no player will ever finish the chapter. How about 100 chapters, taking, on average, 1 year each? Of course 50 chapters taking 6 months each is still 25 years. How many players you think will stick around that long? 1 or 2, maybe? So do you even make 50 chapters with so few players ever getting to those chapters? I think not. How about 25 chapters at 3 months each (3 month average is probably way too low, but we'll give it that). Six and a quarter years. How many players will play for that long? I know several 5+ year players who are leaving because, well, they've "mastered" the game and without any further real challenges, they aren't excited to continue.

So, there is a limit to chapters and I suspect we are closing in on it. I would be surprised of they didn't stop at 20. That's at least 5 years of play and I'd guess less than 1% of players who start ever play that long. And you'd be surprised at how many of them never spend a dime.

AJ

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

I'm in chapter 16. I've been in that chapter for months but most of the time I've just spent upgrading everything in my city, doing FA's and so on. In other words, I don't expect to finish any time soon. And that's okay.

As for losing money? Hmmm.... If you think about it, the longer a player plays the more likely they are to drop out. And if the chapters get difficult they may just stop doing them .... and then, perhaps, drop out. The point is the higher the chapter the less people there probably are to do that chapter and thus....less revenues.....from that chapter. Eventually, as I've suggested before, no player will ever finish the chapter. How about 100 chapters, taking, on average, 1 year each? Of course 50 chapters taking 6 months each is still 25 years. How many players you think will stick around that long? 1 or 2, maybe? So do you even make 50 chapters with so few players ever getting to those chapters? I think not. How about 25 chapters at 3 months each (3 month average is probably way too low, but we'll give it that). Six and a quarter years. How many players will play for that long? I know several 5+ year players who are leaving because, well, they've "mastered" the game and without any further real challenges, they aren't excited to continue.

So, there is a limit to chapters and I suspect we are closing in on it. I would be surprised of they didn't stop at 20. That's at least 5 years of play and I'd guess less than 1% of players who start ever play that long. And you'd be surprised at how many of them never spend a dime.

AJ

5 years of play based on no portal profits or time boosters, maybe. These make the first several guest race chapters trivial. I started a Beta city less than a year ago and I am already about halfway through the research for chapter 10.

And these same resources helped me complete chapters 15-17 in my Live city at all average of about 3 1/2 months each. And no money or diamonds were used to finish the chapters more quickly.

 

[SoggyShorts]

. I'm doing it "right" and it's STILL asking for 'way to much mushrooms, bismuth, obsidian, etc. etc. More than I can produce by manufactUring and trading.

The "Right way" of doing chapters has changed I think. Before portal profits, there were only slow, fast, and diamonds. Now, if you do the spire there is a third option that allows for either a much smaller settlement or even none at all.

Since I never bought diamonds and missed the first year of the spire I only had a handful of premium expansions and didn't even have all of ones available from the world map, so I had to adjust my playstyle.
With some teleports, extra T6 (I build 6 of them total), and portal profits the chapter was a breeze, just like it would be for someone who had 15 more expansions than I doing it the old way.

 

[satchmo33]

I know this sounds so dumb: but what's T6? Sentient goods (ie: bismuth)?

And the reason I don't sell/teleport manufacturies is cuz of the enormous loss of ranking points. Portal profits only work on the goods that the portal produces....nothing else.

And I've never bought a Premium Expansion (Soggy: you say you never buy diamonds...so how did you get your Premium Expansions?)

And the reason I built my non-boosted manufacturies was 'way back when I was in a bad FS and bad neighborhood who practically NEVER took trades. Different now - wonderful FS and neighborhood who take trades immediately ('course I always make 'em 3-star).

Thanks to all all of you for your advice. I treasure it.

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

I know this sounds so dumb: but what's T6? Sentient goods (ie: bismuth)?

Yes. Normal goods are tier 1 and 2 and 3. Sentient goods are called either S1 for the first boosted sentient goods, S2 and S3, or T4 and T5 and T6. And when chapter 18 gets added and the next set of goods comes with it, they will be called Ascended. So then we will have A1 and A2 and A3, or T7 and T8 and T9.

Portal profits only work on the goods that the portal produces....nothing else.

And no, most guest race goods that come from portal profits are made in the guest race buildings, not the portal. The portal profit specifically provides you with the goods that have a storage cap in the portal, not that they are made in the portal

 

[SoggyShorts]

And I've never bought a Premium Expansion (Soggy: you say you never buy diamonds...so how did you get your Premium Expansions?)

Wishing wells, chapter diamond rewards, genies, spire, even the goddess of disappointment gave me some once I think.

 

[mikeledo]

I know this sounds so dumb: but what's T6? Sentient goods (ie: bismuth)?

And the reason I don't sell/teleport manufacturies is cuz of the enormous loss of ranking points. Portal profits only work on the goods that the portal produces....nothing else.

And I've never bought a Premium Expansion (Soggy: you say you never buy diamonds...so how did you get your Premium Expansions?)

And the reason I built my non-boosted manufacturies was 'way back when I was in a bad FS and bad neighborhood who practically NEVER took trades. Different now - wonderful FS and neighborhood who take trades immediately ('course I always make 'em 3-star).

Thanks to all all of you for your advice. I treasure it.

In looking at all your "I don't do" lists, I understand why you have problems.

 

[qaccy]

Bit of a tangent here, but I remember when Portal Profit instants used to be a bonus. These days, I'm pretty sure Inno designs guest races around the expectation that players have and are using them. I believe this is why each new chapter puts less emphasis on the capped guest race resources for research and more on the uncapped ones. PPs let you cap certain resources quickly, but that's a lot less useful if you still have to wait for productions in order to use most of them rather than being able to dump them immediately into research.

That being said, even though I'm kinda disheartened by the above, I don't mind if chapters take a while to get through. Means I have something to work on for longer.

 

[Deleted User - 1178646]

I'm in chapter 16. I've been in that chapter for months but most of the time I've just spent upgrading everything in my city, doing FA's and so on. In other words, I don't expect to finish any time soon. And that's okay.

As for losing money? Hmmm.... If you think about it, the longer a player plays the more likely they are to drop out. And if the chapters get difficult they may just stop doing them .... and then, perhaps, drop out. The point is the higher the chapter the less people there probably are to do that chapter and thus....less revenues.....from that chapter. Eventually, as I've suggested before, no player will ever finish the chapter. How about 100 chapters, taking, on average, 1 year each? Of course 50 chapters taking 6 months each is still 25 years. How many players you think will stick around that long? 1 or 2, maybe? So do you even make 50 chapters with so few players ever getting to those chapters? I think not. How about 25 chapters at 3 months each (3 month average is probably way too low, but we'll give it that). Six and a quarter years. How many players will play for that long? I know several 5+ year players who are leaving because, well, they've "mastered" the game and without any further real challenges, they aren't excited to continue.

So, there is a limit to chapters and I suspect we are closing in on it. I would be surprised of they didn't stop at 20. That's at least 5 years of play and I'd guess less than 1% of players who start ever play that long. And you'd be surprised at how many of them never spend a dime.

AJ

the moment you stop developing is the moment the playerbase crashes.
Even if it makes little sense, keeping up with some development keeps the playerbase happy as they feel the game is still alive and playing. it's easier to attracks players to a established game then to a new one. the worst referral would be "I play this dead game without development, you should join they could close down any second, oh make sure to spend money, it could be that tomorrow you can't anymore"

That would not work lol. so making a new chapter, keep making new events is a safe bet that the game will stay alive. even if you lower the frequency and recyle half the events it keeps the clock ticking.

 

[WizardKrieg]

I'm snarled and tangled in the ch15 web and the spider is approaching! Chapters 15, 16, and 17 just aren't worth the angst, trouble, WORK, and city-chewing-up involved. They are Just. Too. Hard. BUT - they're needed in order for your city to progress through upgrading. Catch-22. (which I am just now re-reading for the kazillionth time).

Players are dropping like flies from this game because of this. Doesn't Inno GET it that they're LOSING MONEY?????? Ease up, guys and you'll lose fewer players (and money - after all, that's your entire reason for existing, right?)

I would SO leave this game entirely if I didn't enjoy my FS so much and have so many years (five? six?) invested.

I have to agree, we lost 3 players this week and we were a number 2 FS. All have said the newer chapters are just crazy. I'm just ending 15 and it wasn't a pleasant ride...glad it's done but don't look forward to 16.

 

[ajqtrz]

the moment you stop developing is the moment the playerbase crashes.
Even if it makes little sense, keeping up with some development keeps the playerbase happy as they feel the game is still alive and playing. it's easier to attracks players to a established game then to a new one. the worst referral would be "I play this dead game without development, you should join they could close down any second, oh make sure to spend money, it could be that tomorrow you can't anymore"

That would not work lol. so making a new chapter, keep making new events is a safe bet that the game will stay alive. even if you lower the frequency and recyle half the events it keeps the clock ticking.

Perhaps you are right, but I wonder how many people come to Elvenar via referral and how many just come upon it as they look around at what's available. I think you are right that if you stop developing the player base will crash, but development, in this game, need not be about new chapters. Thus, you could just slowly stop making new chapters and develop other aspects of the game or add new ones.

AJ