Allow Archmages to Delete A Thread Entirely

[Darielle]

I've been confronted with the problem of a well-meaning member who tends to give extremely bad advice in messages. (Like telling new players to use all of their time instants to run up the spire in one day. Newbies, first of all, should not waste all of their time instants in this way for no reason. Second, they don't have the troops to be able to use this strategy anyway, and they need to build up troops without brown bears or several armories. Ditto on goods to negotiate. So going slow and steady in the spire, when you're a 10-20 or soK score player, is much, much better.)

The advice causes confusion and could create problems for new players who try to comply with the suggestion, to their own disappointment and failure. Therefore, I would like to suggest that an archmage be given the ability to delete a message from the message board for the entire membership, so that players will not notice it. It really galls me to have to post a message telling players to ignore the advice. I did that the last time, but then there is an inevitable argument ... which only further confuses the issue and merely serves to increase exposure to the offending thread. If the thread is then always at the top of the message board, it's just adding fuel to the fire. (And although it isn't true in this case, I could see some original posters liking the fact that their controversial thread stays on top by people weighing in on the bad advice continually.)

I realize a person can report a post, but if the poster is merely sharing their opinion and it just happens to be bad, then there really isn't any grounds for reporting. You don't want to get the person in trouble .... and you don't want to get yourself in trouble for reporting without cause. But you just want to avoid having new players hear bad advice. I think an archmage should be able to have some say in what stays in the message center in her fellowship.

If you think it's better to just post a thoughtful message on why this is bad advice ... yeah, I've thought of that. I just hate embarrassing the original poster by doing that too often. At least you aren't dressing them down if you simply remove the message. That's my thinking, anyway.

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

I'm sorry, but if someone was doing this in a fellowship I ran, and they would not stop, they would be kicked out, no matter what else they may do for the fellowship.

 

[samidodamage]

I agree with @Enevhar Aldarion. The key for me is whether or not they're willing to accept that FS leadership has the final say on whether something is appropriate for our FS or not. If they're not willing to accept that, they're gone.
I absolutely call out blatantly bad advice whether it's in chat or in a msg. I feel no responsibility for whether the person who posted it feels embarrassed...that's on them...though I do try to be sensitive and careful in how I approach them as well as how I word my response.
In your example I would start by stating that this is something I do (use time instants to complete Spire) as a fighter. It saves me on use of military boost bldgs/pet food and I have an excess of instants. I would question the benefit to the player who has fewer instants: when is it better to save them to get the boost bldg/pet food that show up in crafting? How much is 'enough' in inventory and when does that change the answer to 'when is it better to...whatever' I would also question what, if any, the benefit was to a convincing player (there may be one, I haven't thought it through since I fight) other than making the Spire conform to their rl personal time to play it. When is it better for a convincing player to save them for crafting mana/seed producers and pet food (for Phoenix that boost goods production) and when does that change?
Since that approach usually leads to more discussion/questions, the thread doesn't usually need to be removed. You've taken 'bad advice' and turned it into a teaching moment. If for some reason the thread devolves into an argument instead, I can post:
***DELETE MESSAGE EVERYONE***
Nothing productive is being accomplished with this conversation.
Anyway, by that time, the offender would be gone and everyone else would be glad to see the convo go bye-bye, lol!

 

[Nerwa]

I kinda wonder if Inno even *can* make changes to the messaging system. It's so kludgy - it makes me wonder if it's some 3rd-party app they purchased & can't update (because the 3rd party went out of business).

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

I kinda wonder if Inno even *can* make changes to the messaging system. It's so kludgy - it makes me wonder if it's some 3rd-party app they purchased & can't update (because the 3rd party went out of business).

The chat is 3rd party, but not the messaging system, from what I remembering reading. Messaging was only added to the mobile version a year or two ago, but has been part of the browser version since the game launched over 7 years ago.

 

[Darielle]

Thanks for all your input, everyone. I sometimes wonder whether I'm too hard on people or not hard enough. I hate to make people feel bad, but sometimes they just don't think of the consequences of what they say to someone who is not at their level.

In the case of new players, they may have 20 2-hour time instants in stock, and maybe a few 5-hour ones. That simply isn't anywhere near enough to run up the spire in one day. I mentioned that unless someone has at least 100 2-hour ones, they shouldn't even attempt to climb the spire with time instants.

When I was new, I used mine mainly to speed up important factories so that I can start benefiting from the higher production sooner. This was especially important when I was low on an item and upgrading the factory to replenish stock. The last thing I'd do is run up the spire in a day, blowing the whole stash, particularly since I still had to wait once I got higher, to build up troops. One of our members has a whopping 12 squads of each of the basic troops. I think one should have a minimum of 50 squads of each basic troop if they want to fight the spire in one day with time instants. Otherwise, you'll run out of troops.

Thanks again ... you've given me another perspective, Enevhar, Sami and Nerwa.

 

[SoggyShorts]

The chat is 3rd party, but not the messaging system, from what I remembering reading. Messaging was only added to the mobile version a year or two ago, but has been part of the browser version since the game launched over 7 years ago.

That may be true, but it doesn't preclude the possibility that the system they are using (just like chat) is from the late 90s

 

[Myne]

I've been confronted with the problem of a well-meaning member who tends to give extremely bad advice in messages. (Like telling new players to use all of their time instants to run up the spire in one day. Newbies, first of all, should not waste all of their time instants in this way for no reason. Second, they don't have the troops to be able to use this strategy anyway, and they need to build up troops without brown bears or several armories. Ditto on goods to negotiate. So going slow and steady in the spire, when you're a 10-20 or soK score player, is much, much better.)

The advice causes confusion and could create problems for new players who try to comply with the suggestion, to their own disappointment and failure. Therefore, I would like to suggest that an archmage be given the ability to delete a message from the message board for the entire membership, so that players will not notice it. It really galls me to have to post a message telling players to ignore the advice. I did that the last time, but then there is an inevitable argument ... which only further confuses the issue and merely serves to increase exposure to the offending thread. If the thread is then always at the top of the message board, it's just adding fuel to the fire. (And although it isn't true in this case, I could see some original posters liking the fact that their controversial thread stays on top by people weighing in on the bad advice continually.)

I realize a person can report a post, but if the poster is merely sharing their opinion and it just happens to be bad, then there really isn't any grounds for reporting. You don't want to get the person in trouble .... and you don't want to get yourself in trouble for reporting without cause. But you just want to avoid having new players hear bad advice. I think an archmage should be able to have some say in what stays in the message center in her fellowship.

If you think it's better to just post a thoughtful message on why this is bad advice ... yeah, I've thought of that. I just hate embarrassing the original poster by doing that too often. At least you aren't dressing them down if you simply remove the message. That's my thinking, anyway.

make a rule that any fellowship wide message needs to be run through you or your mages before being sent.

 

[Katwick]

Don't make it more complicated than it needs to be.

** This thread is closed **
Gets the job done.

 

[Darielle]

make a rule that any fellowship wide message needs to be run through you or your mages before being sent.

Good idea, as long as it doesn't make me look like a tyrant. Would it? (Just as an aside, the person in question has been a mage for years).

 

[Raccon]

think an archmage should be able to have some say in what stays in the message center in her fellowship.

I belive it's possible, as a comment in my fellowship chat box disappeared shortly after it was posted!

 

[The Fairy]

@Darielle even if you could delete the message wouldn't you still need to post something explaining why the advice was a bad idea in case someone read the message before you deleted it?

 

[SoggyShorts]

as long as it doesn't make me look like a tyrant. Would it?

Kinda, yeah. As a leader, I wouldn't want to stifle conversations like that, and looking at it from a fellow perspective I certainly wouldn't accept such a rule.

I'm on side of

You're wrong because __________
+
Thread Closed.
+
boot(if needed)

 

[crackie]

Good idea, as long as it doesn't make me look like a tyrant. Would it? (Just as an aside, the person in question has been a mage for years).

You can’t be an effective leader if you doubt or question yourself at every turn either though. The way I see it, nobody is forced to follow me. I don’t own my players. They are free to come and go as they please. If they don’t like my leadership style, then they are free to join another FS and follow someone else’s lead. Better yet, if they think they can do better, go form their own fellowship and run their own ship instead of be an armchair Archmage and then see just how difficult of a job it really is. Therefore, if they think you are a tyrant and still stay, then that’s on their own stupidity to think they are somehow beholden to a FS or AM by continuing to give their own powers away and stay in a FS while disgruntled. The AM only has power because people willingly chose to follow them. They have none if everyone leaves. A good AM knows they don’t have any real power and therefore, won’t abuse their leadership role.

Yesterday, I read a great quote by new head coach Becky Hammon bc the WNBA just ended. I don’t follow basketball but I’ve read headlines to know Hammon broke the glass ceiling to become the first female assistant coach in the NBA. I’ve read articles of NBA stars saying how great of a coach she is. Now she is first time head coach in the WNBA and won a Championship. Girlfriend trusts her gumption! I feel like when I started my own FS, it was with the same attitude. I have some theories and philosophies about how to “best” run a FS, notably that I don’t agree with prevalent belief that it is that hard to start a Gold FS. If I think I can do a better job than another AM, then I don’t need to argue with them. I should just go start my own FS to prove my own theories right. I follow the beat of my own drummer. Others are free to join if they want to come for the ride or not! So trust yourself more, @Darielle! The only element you can ever control is you. Don’t worry about what others think or do. That’s for them to sort out. You know your stuff! Believe that. You’re not here to prove your mage wrong, but to prove yourself right!

 

[Darielle]

@Darielle even if you could delete the message wouldn't you still need to post something explaining why the advice was a bad idea in case someone read the message before you deleted it?

Good question. If it was during a busy time when lots of people saw it, you're probably right.

 

[Darielle]

You can’t be an effective leader if you doubt or question yourself at every turn either though. The way I see it, nobody is forced to follow me. I don’t own my players. They are free to come and go as they please. If they don’t like my leadership style, then they are free to join another FS and follow someone else’s lead. Better yet, if they think they can do better, go form their own fellowship and run their own ship instead of be an armchair Archmage and then see just how difficult of a job it really is. Therefore, if they think you are a tyrant and still stay, then that’s on their own stupidity to think they are somehow beholden to a FS or AM by continuing to give their own powers away and stay in a FS while disgruntled. The AM only has power because people willingly chose to follow them. They have none if everyone leaves. A good AM knows they don’t have any real power and therefore, won’t abuse their leadership role.

Yesterday, I read a great quote by new head coach Becky Hammon bc the WNBA just ended. I don’t follow basketball but I’ve read headlines to know Hammon broke the glass ceiling to become the first female assistant coach in the NBA. I’ve read articles of NBA stars saying how great of a coach she is. Now she is first time head coach in the WNBA and won a Championship. Girlfriend trusts her gumption! I feel like when I started my own FS, it was with the same attitude. I have some theories and philosophies about how to “best” run a FS, notably that I don’t agree with prevalent belief that it is that hard to start a Gold FS. If I think I can do a better job than another AM, then I don’t need to argue with them. I should just go start my own FS to prove my own theories right. I follow the beat of my own drummer. Others are free to join if they want to come for the ride or not! So trust yourself more, @Darielle! The only element you can ever control is you. Don’t worry about what others think or do. That’s for them to sort out. You know your stuff! Believe that. You’re not here to prove your mage wrong, but to prove yourself right!

.

Thanks ... the vast majority of my players have told me that they think it's a great fellowship; some have told me that I make the fellowship fun. One said I was the greatest arch they've ever had, lol. One currently isn't happy with me but I don't think she'll leave (hope not), and one left shortly after I became arch (I think because of me). So I guess I'm doing okay overall. Can't please everyone. You're right ... I don't own the players and they are free. But the bottom line is my call to make.

I think I made a mistake when I asked for a vote from the mages on everything in the first week or two. I was nervous starting out, even though the AM had designated me months earlier. Her departure was too sudden so I stumbled for the first week (not to mention being worried about her). But now I realize there are some things I don't think should be up for a vote, like whether I should raise someone's rank or how I should distribute perk points. I make the call myself now. I think the one or two who loved to vote against me on everything (a tiny minority) are not happy with having no vote and no way to argue on the minor things. But I still get input on the bigger things, like whether to raise the minimum for the tourney. Stuff like that. And I go along with the majority there. Those always go in my favor anyway ... the majority and I seem to agree on virtually everything.

 

[Yavimaya]

I also would pm newer players in a group of just them explaining why to disregard the not good advice. Also, if politely asking the person to stop and they don't I personally would give them a warning of hey one more time we will have no choice but to remove you.

 

[crackie]

I think the one or two who loved to vote against me on everything (a tiny minority) are not happy with having no vote and no way to argue on the minor things.

And they stay because of their own fears that they may not be able to prove themselves right if they were to start a FS or they don’t want to do the actual hard work! Realize these people don’t hold any real power over you either! They too only have power because you keep giving it to them by second guessing yourself and trying to appease, but the instant you change your attitude to complete indifference as to whether they stay or go, then oh boy, will they understand just how powerless they are to undermine your authority at every turn. If you don’t care if they walk and eliminate your self doubts, then they have no bargaining chip or entry point into manipulating you to do what they want because you’ve closed all the loopholes to reclaim your power. They will have to re-evaluate their strategy and face their own fears of finding a new FS, start their own, or accept your leadership, which again, becomes their problem and not yours. You get to build the FS to your own creative vision as the AM.

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

Just to point out that any fellowship member can start a thread that excludes the AM by just manually typing in each member's name, rather than checking the Fellowship box, and there is no way to stop those people from continuing to send out bad information. And in the mobile app, this is even easier to do. Maybe the Fellow rank should be made so that someone of that rank is not able to start message threads? Then you could just demote the troublemaker, instead of booting them.

 

[ajqtrz]

There are, in my opinion, at least 4 possible paths to "fixing" the problem of bad advice.

1) Put out a lot of good advice and encourage discussion. This beats the "bad advice" person to the punch and it is then up to him/her to say why his/her advice is better. But if the barn door is already open and horse is out, this will not work.

2) Appoint a mage as "advice screener." Rule: "all giving of advice goes through the Advice/Help mage." Don't know if this would work but if it was in place you'd seldom have bad advice and a reason to boot anybody who did post bad advice without sending it to the mage to post.

3) Discuss with the "offender" why his/her advice could have been better....note the positive "spin".... if it had considered this, that, and the other thing. Keep this private, of course. Then invite him/her to post a "correction," as in "upon further consideration," rather than "because the AM told me to do it..." This gives the errant poster an opportunity to save face and grow.

4) Drop the hammer and boot the player. Not positive, not fun, but if #3 doesn't work, probably necessary.

AJ