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    Your Elvenar Team

Ancient Wonders?

Lemon Wren

Lemon Wren

Well-Known Member
As I've mentioned in other threads, I'm a new player taking my time in chapter 5. So far I'm enjoying the spire and the tourneys (after thinking I'd play to make beautiful cities). I'm currently bringing all my manufactories up to max capacity, while leveling up housing for population and figuring out how to keep culture high. So far things seem balanced enough for what I want, but I'm 100% puzzled about ancient wonders.

They . . . confuse me? I currently have a level 9 (I think offhand) Golden Abyss, as well as a low level Endless Excavation. I have no complaints about either one, but I honestly don't understand why the GA is considered a good one and I'm uncertain if I should stick with the EE.

I built the GA because I read online that it was a good one and at some point the EE seemed like a good idea, but I dunno. I have no complaints about either one, but I honestly don't understand why the GA is considered a good one and I'm uncertain if I should stick with the EE.

As someone who is taking her time and so far is doing well with my city, in the spire and in tourneys should i stick with the EE? (I'm assuming folks will recommend keeping the GA.) Or would Needles be better than the EE, for someone who auto fights until catering is easier? Or something else?

Thoughts? Thanks!
 

Dew Spinner

Well-Known Member
Every AW level and every expansion you place to house an AW are multiplied together, so every AW costs you a double penalty (AW levels multiplied by the expansion it is siting on) and also multiplied with your relic boost (capped at 700%) and every mandatory tech research, so CHOOSE carefully which AWs you want to place on extra expansions. You can not teleport AWs and you can not get the KP back that you invest in them later if you sell them. Other older players have all the math on all the AWs and their worth/penalty. Check out MinMaxGamers site as a start, I'm sure one of the older players will share the math here shortly.
 
Lemon Wren

Lemon Wren

Well-Known Member
Iyapo1 said:
@Lemon Wren
Can of Worms!

Before you invest heavily in wonders I recommend that you decide tournament and spire goals. If you want to gold spire AND perform competitively in the tournament then the answer to your wonder question will change.

Tell us what you want out of your city. It will get you better info.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure I want to necessarily invest in going for gold in the spire. I'm sure I'd need to leave my fs, since the spire is something only a handful of guildmates do and I'm not sure it would be worth it for me? I can get myself through the first two maps remarkably easily so far and am going to try the third map tomorrow when the gate unlocks. It's my understanding it's a resource intense slog, but of course I need to check it out for myself. I enjoy the tourneys and so far find I'm able to complete every province at every level.

What I thought I'd do (make attractive cities) has been abandoned. I enjoy managing resources competing in the other two above activities.
 

Dew Spinner

Well-Known Member
Lemon Wren said:
I'm not sure I want to necessarily invest in going for gold in the spire. I'm sure I'd need to leave my fs, since the spire is something only a handful of guildmates do and I'm not sure it would be worth it for me? I can get myself through the first two maps remarkably easily so far and am going to try the third map tomorrow when the gate unlocks. It's my understanding it's a resource intense slog, but of course I need to check it out for myself. I enjoy the tourneys and so far find I'm able to complete every province at every level.

What I thought I'd do (make attractive cities) has been abandoned. I enjoy managing resources competing in the other two above activities.
Click to expand...
Spire and Tournament are a challenge but they also offer the best rewards! Does it cost to get those rewards, Yes! The rewards are better than the cost, the spire basically gives you everything you need to complete it, Coin Rains to refill coins, Supply Instants to refill supplies, Time Boosters to refill Troops, Diamonds to use on extra tries on the convinces and lots of great buildings. I have topped the Spire since the first week I unlocked it and I have never looked back. Granted, I have a love/hate relationship with the Spire but I would never "not" keep going to the top!
 
Enevhar Aldarion

Enevhar Aldarion

Oh Wise One
Simple answer: if you do not plan on going hardcore at the tournament and Spire, either as a fighter or a caterer, then build what you want, because none of it will really hurt you, since you won't be dealing with the high costs of going deep in either.

A lot of advice you will get on the forums for this will be aimed at the more hardcore player, so don't stress if it does not sound like what you want to do.
 

Dew Spinner

Well-Known Member
Enevhar Aldarion said:
Simple answer: if you do not plan on going hardcore at the tournament and Spire, either as a fighter or a caterer, then build what you want, because none of it will really hurt you, since you won't be dealing with the high costs of going deep in either.

A lot of advice you will get on the forums for this will be aimed at the more hardcore player, so don't stress if it does not sound like what you want to do.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure if the Crystal Lighthouse would even qualify as a good build for a casual player?!
 
Iyapo1

Iyapo1

Well-Known Member
Lemon Wren said:
? I can get myself through the first two maps remarkably easily so far and am going to try the third map tomorrow when the gate unlocks.
Click to expand...
Have fun! They told you true. The third floor of the spire was designed to hurt!

I love the spire so I want gold but I am not competitive in the tournaments. I am happy with a 4k tournament average, I go up for points not out for kp which keeps my costs down.

So I can pretty much build what I want how I want. I love the golden abyss it is my favorite! I dont place all my available expansions so the GA let's me fit more into less space. But it is death to a competitive player or kp farmer.

I am trying a catering build so my wonder picks reflect that. You are going hybrid fighting and catering so my first priority pick for you would be the martial monestary/ Sanctuary.
 
Gladiola

Gladiola

Well-Known Member
@Lemon Wren I have seen this question often, and I haven't been around that long. I think it's worthwhile to do some reading on the wiki and maybe elvengems about what the Ancient Wonders do and then think about how they will affect your gameplay.

For example, Endless Excavation produces supplies every day and gives a random relic (or relics at higher levels) when you clear a province. It seems to me that an advantage is that it produces supplies passively without you needing to do anything. This could be good for players who only log on once a day or so. I am very active and do multiple workshop productions per day, so I don't see as much use for it. I also am very slow about clearing provinces, so I wouldn't get much benefit from the free relic(s). I'm not planning to build the Endless Excavation.

The Golden Abyss is an example of a Wonder that gets better as your city gets bigger, because it gives population based on your working population. In my city right now, I can get more population from a residence, and since they are the same size I've decided to have a residence instead of a GA, but I will build one when my city gets bigger. (There is also a case to be made for building it earlier and putting KP in to upgrade it over time. I'm resisting that so far.) So if you feel like your GA is not as terrific as some people think theirs is, you are not wrong -- it might not be as terrific for YOU with your particular city right now but might be better in the future.

I have fun calculating what the effect of an Ancient Wonder might be and in what scenarios I might use it. With some like the GA it is not whether I will build it, but when. With others I could imagine building a low-level one for a time and then taking it out (assuming that you have the rune shards for it -- I have 55 rune shards for Tome of Secrets, so I could build it and sell it repeatedly if I wanted). I could imagine doing that with the Endless Excavation if one had enough space and a shortage of supplies but not enough population and culture to build a workshop.
 
Gladiola

Gladiola

Well-Known Member
@Lemon Wren fighting tournament provinces to higher number of stars provides more points per encounter (you start with 30 points for a 1-star encounter and it increases to 60 points on the sixth star, so fighting a single province to six stars will provide 270 points).

Another strategy is to fight the one and two-star provinces but more of them. This would yield more KP in relationship to the number of points gained.

For example you could fight 9 provinces to one star each and get 270 points and 9 kp or one province to six stars and still get 270 points but 7 kp.

There's a handy calculator here https://elvengems.com/tournament/tournament-calculator/

Edit: The expense of encounters increases in both directions, so that the second encounter in a province is more costly than the first encounter and the first encounter in province 2 is more costly than the first encounter in province 1. So you pay a similar cost (although perhaps not exactly) for the second encounter in province 1 (scenario a) as for the first encounter in province 2 (scenario b), but you get more points for scenario a than scenario b for the same cost.
 
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Enevhar Aldarion

Enevhar Aldarion

Oh Wise One
Dew Spinner said:
I'm not sure if the Crystal Lighthouse would even qualify as a good build for a casual player?!
Click to expand...

It partly depends on how many visits you get per day. a normal polishing of a culture building only lasts 8 hours. With my level 11 Lighthouse (called the Great Bell Spire in human cities), that is almost double. That means 3 consecutive polishings of the same building in two days will do the same as 6 without the Wonder. That means more culture stays polished for longer, and a constantly higher culture bonus means fewer residences and workshops are needed for the same coin and supplies production, so more space for other stuff. That is more important than adding a few thousand boosted goods to each help chest.
 
Iyapo1

Iyapo1

Well-Known Member
@Lemon Wren
Gladiola beat me to an answer but as for how that applies to my comment the farther out you go the more expensive the tents are to clear. Going out 9 provinces to one star will cost more in troops and goods than going up 1 province to six stars

Here is a link to a forum announcement. Midway down there is a difficulty chart that shows difference in difficulty between tents and stars. The more tent out the higher the cost.
 
Lemon Wren

Lemon Wren

Well-Known Member
Gladiola said:
@Lemon Wren fighting tournament provinces to higher number of stars provides more points per encounter (you start with 30 points for a 1-star encounter and it increases to 60 points on the sixth star, so fighting a single province to six stars will provide 270 points).

Another strategy is to fight the one and two-star provinces but more of them. This would yield more KP in relationship to the number of points gained.

For example you could fight 9 provinces to one star each and get 270 points and 9 kp or one province to six stars and still get 270 points but 7 kp.

There's a handy calculator here https://elvengems.com/tournament/tournament-calculator/

Edit: The expense of encounters increases in both directions, so that the second encounter in a province is more costly than the first encounter and the first encounter in province 2 is more costly than the first encounter in province 1. So you pay a similar cost (although perhaps not exactly) for the second encounter in province 1 (scenario a) as for the first encounter in province 2 (scenario b), but you get more points for scenario a than scenario b for the same cost.
Click to expand...

Right, I get that each round gets more expensive. At chapter five I find it easy enough to do them all at every level.
 
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