DeletedUser4132
Guest
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see now you are a humorous person....
-
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Your Elvenar Team
Are there too many changes coming to the Elvenar game?
- Thread starter Jackluyt
- Start date
see now you are a humorous person....
DeletedUser1996
Guest
SoggyShorts
Mathematician par Excellence
This reminds me of an English exercise.
I did not steal the blue hat.
I did not steal the blue hat.
I did not steal the blue hat.
I did not steal the blue hat.
I did not steal the blue hat.
I did not steal the blue hat.
I did not steal the blue hat.
I did not steal the blue hat.
DeletedUser4132
Guest
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Intonation: I am very impressed SoggyShorts...
SoggyShorts
Mathematician par Excellence
i get it, you only want a response from jack,then you should send them a private message, not spam the forums.
you should remove all of the extra posts, before you either get banned, or lose all respect on the forums.
you should remove all of the extra posts, before you either get banned, or lose all respect on the forums.
Ashrem
Oh Wise One
Did you even visit the facebook group he linked to? He's one of the admins for a group with 2600 members and is leading a conversation there about the changes. What are you doing to represent yourself, other than spamming this thread?
DeletedUser4671
Guest
I am not locking this thread however, spamming the thread will not be tolerated 
SassKatt
Member
Ya know, maybe I am perfectly happy to be sitting out there, plodding along all by my lonesome, maybe I don't really like people, or being in a group of people. Maybe I just want a place to hide out and not be bothered. Maybe my real life bombards me with so much I want a hidey hole where I can veg, build and ignore the outside world.
Don't force socialization upon people. People play for a variety of reasons. Yes, there are times when I would be just as happy to sit back all by my lonesome and do my thing, my way but you won't let me.
Think about others and what they just might want and not always about yourselves, how YOU play and god forbid, the ALMIGHTY dollar.
Ashrem
Oh Wise One
People tend to forget that this is a bunch of people's jobs. Herding players into social groups that push each other to expand and thereby induce us to spend money is what is putting food on their tables.
DeletedUser5278
Guest
Ashrem - I keep shaking my head at your replies. You and I are the customers, not the store. It's not our job to serve them and make Inno happy - it's their job to serve their customers and make their customers happy. The mantra of all of the stores I shop at is to please the customer. Pleasing their player base -- so that more people want to play and expend money on diamonds -- is what will put food on the tables of Inno's employees.
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Ashrem
Oh Wise One
Shake your head all you like. Pleasing the player base only works if there are enough paying players. When a game doesn't have enough paying players (which appears to be the case with Elvenar, since there are more abandoned cities than full ones), the only path to success is getting more. If they think they can attract more paying players in the future by p*ssing off many of the existing ones, that's the best path forward for them.
I'm fully aware I am a customer. And only Inno and I know how much I'm spending with them. They know how much everyone is spending. They will do what they need to to ensure there are enough people spending enough money that it's worth their while to keep going. If they can't make it worth their while, they will shut the game down and try something else.
DeletedUser61
Guest
At some point, hopefully sooner rather than later, the developers weill get around to moving inactive, but established, players out toward the fringes of the map.
- Inactive can mean several things.
- Some players simply like to understand how various games work, and then they'll move on.
- Some players are only interested in "winning" so they'll move on once they're "done with the game."
- Some players want to spend MORE time than the game allows, or prefer an approach that's not well supported (or intentionally blocked) and they pretty much HAVE to give up and move on.
- Some players, myself included at the moment, have life issues that are crashing in on them, and have other (temporary) obligations that force them to cut back on their playing time.
- I'd prefer that safe harbor (inactive but developed) cities be moved out to ring 40 or some such, where they will not interfere with new and active players, but their city will STILL be on the map, and if they start playing again them they'll be move in toward the center of the map, within the week. I suspect that this approach would be a bit TOO obvious for the comfort of the marketing folks, but out of sight out of mind has it's attractions.
- Moving safe harbor cities to the fringe of the currently occupied areas works nearly as well, it's just not as clean and simple.
- The developers COULD archive safe harbor cities, and take them off of the map altogether, but that would be a LOT more complicated than simply pushing the safe harbor cities to the edge of the map. A year ago, when I was reverse engineering how the map was populated, I established that the cities are actually stored in a list, and "the map" is generated anew whenever somebody visits their world map, so leaving inactive cities ON the map doesn't require any extra space.
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DeletedUser2870
Guest
Actually, I'm afraid you got it backwards here. Any business needs some kind of investment to get started.
Elvenar is no exception, so they need to get players first, then entice them to pay for additional features. And in fact, that worked pretty well UNTIL they started changing a lot of stuff.
Since the changes with the battlesystem, and with every change after that, I see more players who used to pay stop doing so because they no longer feel it is worth spending their money on. And from paying go to non-paying...and move on to non-playing. A loss all the way.
And it may be so that the big spenders aren't affected as much, but generally speaking it's much easier to convince 1000 people to part with $1,- than 1 person to part with $1000,-. Yet I see even people who spent large sums on the game pulling out.
Most games thrive on a the fact that they have a large base of players with a limited budget, offering enough to make them pay small amounts regularly. Elvenar seems to be alienating that group, with the hopes there will be more big spenders to make up for that.
If they feel that's the way to go, they might want to take a look to other businesses. Most who take that path fail miserably, because to succeed in that one needs to offer something really extroardinary. And apart from very good graphics, this game doesn't really offer anything that will attract people to spend big bucks.
In fact, the only thing that really made it different was that it did NOT focus so much on fighting and they have pretty much taken that part away, turning it in a fighting game again. And those tourney battles get harder as one progresses, but not because of any serious challenge or puzzle, or strategy but because the numbers increase against you. And pretty much every province has something like 4-5 battles that are 90% alike, so those fights are extremely repetetive...not exactly something that will challenge people who are into battlegames.
So if they persist on that route its very unlikely they will succeed because there's not much being offered that is really special. And they'll have my blessing...but no longer my money, nor my patronage.
Ashrem
Oh Wise One
Innogames is over a decade old and had revenues of around $150million U.S. last year. I'm pretty sure both my advice and yours on how to make money is a small data point. I'm also pretty sure that if you actually think I've got it backwards, you are misinterpreting either my position, or reality.
I've seen a lot of people threaten to pull out. I haven't noticed any more cities dry up than a month ago, but I'm not looking for it. I haven't seen the books, either so, like you, I don't actually know if the number of people pulling out is excessive in comparison to their growth projections for the year.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Without seeing your resume, it's hard to rank your opinion higher than a company that is generating substantial revenue by almost any standard.
DeletedUser2870
Guest
*chuckles*
I don't care whether they do or do no not rank my opinion high or not. Or at least I don't anymore. I've kinda given up even bothering. But any company only can exist by pleasing their customers. Only other way is a forced monopoly and that doesn't apply.
And maybe you haven't seen more cities dry up, I most certainly have and I didn't have to go looking for it.
One FS lost 7 members, all medium- and topranked, all over the same thing: too many changes with negative impact and none with a positive one.
Second FS lost 3 members, same reason.
Doing NH with the notifications on I found 2 more players who I used to trade with now having sold all buildings and changing the title of their city to 'quit'. (and yes, I know, 2 doesn't sounds like much, but I only have a very limited number of active traders on my map, so this is like 20% of my active tradingpartners...so that's an impact. Even more so since they actually offered stuff that I could use and not more of my own boosted goods).
If I look at my map, I see more dead cities..so perhaps my neighbourhood is in a worse shape than yours.
But it doesn't really matter I guess.
I don't care whether they do or do no not rank my opinion high or not. Or at least I don't anymore. I've kinda given up even bothering. But any company only can exist by pleasing their customers. Only other way is a forced monopoly and that doesn't apply.
And maybe you haven't seen more cities dry up, I most certainly have and I didn't have to go looking for it.
One FS lost 7 members, all medium- and topranked, all over the same thing: too many changes with negative impact and none with a positive one.
Second FS lost 3 members, same reason.
Doing NH with the notifications on I found 2 more players who I used to trade with now having sold all buildings and changing the title of their city to 'quit'. (and yes, I know, 2 doesn't sounds like much, but I only have a very limited number of active traders on my map, so this is like 20% of my active tradingpartners...so that's an impact. Even more so since they actually offered stuff that I could use and not more of my own boosted goods).
If I look at my map, I see more dead cities..so perhaps my neighbourhood is in a worse shape than yours.
But it doesn't really matter I guess.
DeletedUser6335
Guest
As a new player (only a month and a half or so in) I can say - I *do* like the game - however, there are some things that do seem to need to be looked at from a "new player" perspective.
The map of Provinces/neighborhoods is freaking *huge* and *very* empty (kind off "off putting" but I gave it a go). The "quests" (especially 'tutorial' bits) sort of sped me along and got me motivated - leading me to getting ahead of where I needed to be (should have been by the way things are set up. To me the pacing of them was off; the game led me to do things before I supposedly (by many a how to post here) should have. Most players (as I think was mentioned above) dive right in and play, I know I do. I want to play a game to play the game - not do days/weeks of research on *other* sites to play.
I wasn't going to attempt the Event, because I was new...but the fact the Quests were there...beckoning me and I couldn't decline them, well it made me say "what the heck" and give it a go. I succeeded - but this too led me further off the "path" I supposedly should have been on. The "path" is not clearly defined as it is - and what should help the "pacing" certainly didn't show up in a timely manner to indicate I needed to slow down.
I felt a bit isolated as well - no ability to chat/ask questions in game where I could better see things to help me articulate what help/information I was seeking. I get that not everyone wants to chat or even play in a Fellowship - but the option to chat *unless* you are in a Fellowship isn't even there.
As for battle - well, yeah...I felt *very* mislead about that. The "line" of progress is more like a chasm. One minute, waltzing through the next dead-dead-dead. It wouldn't have been *so* bad, but I needed to succeed to grow and do what the Quests were asking of me. The jump of troop types needed/availability and number needed/ability to produce seemed waaay off. Also, I was taken back by the fact the game itself said I could be a fighter or a negotiator but it *never* warned me there are only ways to augment battle. I get that many folks like to fight - not all of them do. Why offer a choice between fight/negotiate and then do everything to steer everyone to ONLY fighting? Why punish the ones who wish to negotiate?
Don't get me wrong - I enjoy the game, very much so. If it was "old school" and required a sub to play I'd gladly pay (that's one way I know if I like a game or not). I'm not suggesting they should enact a sub....I'm just saying that's how enjoyable the game was for me in my first few weeks. That said, I can also say it was a bit frustrating in certain areas and I can see why some folks just quit; it does slow down considerably and it does seem a bit "haphazard"/arbitrary in some ways (at least to me).
They need to find a balance. Not an easy thing I know, but they need to please a lot of different people with differing tastes. Keeping the "end game" folks happy while not alienating the new players (and vice versa) is not a pleasant task and is usually down right difficult, if not impossible.
I agree with something noted above - if they got a few thousand folks paying $10.00 or more a month they'd gain more than just a handful of folks paying "whale bucks". They'd also likely get more new players, many of whom would add to that $10.00/more a month group. Win/win.
Do I expect a "perfect" game? No. I've been a gamer long enough to know there is no such creature. All of them will have bugs/issues. None of them will offer me 100% of what I want and none of what I don't. I just like this game a lot..and want to see it continue to engage me and others for a long time to come.
Do I hope there can be some sort of compromise? Yes. The back and forth between players here and the sighting of Mods on the site is a heartening thing for me. I've been involved with many a game where the site was nothing but name-calling/finger-pointing, petulant behavior, and no Mods/Devs in sight for *months*. This is a very welcomed change and one I hope to continue to participate in. I just hope some "middle ground" between end game and newbie players game be found and achieved in game by the Mods and Devs doing their things.
The map of Provinces/neighborhoods is freaking *huge* and *very* empty (kind off "off putting" but I gave it a go). The "quests" (especially 'tutorial' bits) sort of sped me along and got me motivated - leading me to getting ahead of where I needed to be (should have been by the way things are set up. To me the pacing of them was off; the game led me to do things before I supposedly (by many a how to post here) should have. Most players (as I think was mentioned above) dive right in and play, I know I do. I want to play a game to play the game - not do days/weeks of research on *other* sites to play.
I wasn't going to attempt the Event, because I was new...but the fact the Quests were there...beckoning me and I couldn't decline them, well it made me say "what the heck" and give it a go. I succeeded - but this too led me further off the "path" I supposedly should have been on. The "path" is not clearly defined as it is - and what should help the "pacing" certainly didn't show up in a timely manner to indicate I needed to slow down.
I felt a bit isolated as well - no ability to chat/ask questions in game where I could better see things to help me articulate what help/information I was seeking. I get that not everyone wants to chat or even play in a Fellowship - but the option to chat *unless* you are in a Fellowship isn't even there.
As for battle - well, yeah...I felt *very* mislead about that. The "line" of progress is more like a chasm. One minute, waltzing through the next dead-dead-dead. It wouldn't have been *so* bad, but I needed to succeed to grow and do what the Quests were asking of me. The jump of troop types needed/availability and number needed/ability to produce seemed waaay off. Also, I was taken back by the fact the game itself said I could be a fighter or a negotiator but it *never* warned me there are only ways to augment battle. I get that many folks like to fight - not all of them do. Why offer a choice between fight/negotiate and then do everything to steer everyone to ONLY fighting? Why punish the ones who wish to negotiate?
Don't get me wrong - I enjoy the game, very much so. If it was "old school" and required a sub to play I'd gladly pay (that's one way I know if I like a game or not). I'm not suggesting they should enact a sub....I'm just saying that's how enjoyable the game was for me in my first few weeks. That said, I can also say it was a bit frustrating in certain areas and I can see why some folks just quit; it does slow down considerably and it does seem a bit "haphazard"/arbitrary in some ways (at least to me).
They need to find a balance. Not an easy thing I know, but they need to please a lot of different people with differing tastes. Keeping the "end game" folks happy while not alienating the new players (and vice versa) is not a pleasant task and is usually down right difficult, if not impossible.
I agree with something noted above - if they got a few thousand folks paying $10.00 or more a month they'd gain more than just a handful of folks paying "whale bucks". They'd also likely get more new players, many of whom would add to that $10.00/more a month group. Win/win.
Do I expect a "perfect" game? No. I've been a gamer long enough to know there is no such creature. All of them will have bugs/issues. None of them will offer me 100% of what I want and none of what I don't. I just like this game a lot..and want to see it continue to engage me and others for a long time to come.
Do I hope there can be some sort of compromise? Yes. The back and forth between players here and the sighting of Mods on the site is a heartening thing for me. I've been involved with many a game where the site was nothing but name-calling/finger-pointing, petulant behavior, and no Mods/Devs in sight for *months*. This is a very welcomed change and one I hope to continue to participate in. I just hope some "middle ground" between end game and newbie players game be found and achieved in game by the Mods and Devs doing their things.
DeletedUser4993
Guest
I love this game despite its faults. I will continue to play unless the changes force me to fight instead of negotiating. Building games are what I like the most.
DeletedUser6335
Guest
I love it too...but the cost of negotiating (and trying to gain Provinces to keep up with quests/chest count for Era (or whatever it is called) is too expensive. Fighting is right out for me too - between the changes and the cost as well. Besides - everything I saw that made me come try this out said "building game" and nothing indicated fighting... *shrug*.
DeletedUser7002
Guest
I am a very new player. I can tell you that I have given up on fighting because I can't win. I enjoy the battles but the opposition gets way bigger armies and there is no way to win. When you are very new, it gets frustrating because you can't build up enough to negotiate and then you can't win a battle anyway. I was glad they made the tournaments easier because it is fun to win and help my fellowship which is active, chatty and helps with information that is NOT explained in Wiki. I have been looking for a different game that is similar but one that gives you a way to proceed without so much frustration. I don't mind hard battles or earning things but it shouldn't be frustrating because you can't afford diamonds so you can do nothing but try to build resources. 5 minutes and you are done for the day. It should be more fun without impossible challenges. You have different size buildings with same size expansions and that makes no sense. I had to sit on knowledge points for 3 days because I couldn't get enough of each resource built up. My fellows finally helped me when I asked and I finally opened chapter 2. But, it took 3 days. After reading all of this, it makes no sense that you do not listen to BETA players. Well I am not a beta player, I am new and I agree with much of what is said here. I am just learning to play so changes don't bother me now because the tournament change made it possible for me to play in the tournaments. Just sayin', any business person knows that you must keep a customer base happy in order to make real money. Try it, you may like that more people are happier and spending more because it is fun!