Confusion about diamonds

[DeletedUser43]

I see post after post from new folks who think that diamonds are required in this game and some of them leave the game because of that. As Katwijk said recently, the retention rate of newplayers is simply awful and perhaps this is part of the reason.

Knowing that only a tiny minority of players will ever bother to ask a question that many of them have, this is the tip of the iceberg. How many players are we losing because of this?

Maybe something needs to be done to fix this misconception that appears common?

Well here is very good example why Inno messed up big time with Elvenar. I am nearly finished with the first level I have two more research blocks to complete however, when I try to upgrade my houses to lvl 4 I need to buy builders here's the rub I have no more diamonds and looks like I too will be leaving this game just because of this main reason

In the FAQ it states, "You do not need to purchase Diamonds in order to play the game." This is not true as you need diamonds to conduct research

I need diamonds to research barracks or planks manufacturing.

I am just now trying to do some research and it seems I can only forward it by giving diamonds, not coins and tools. Someone said you can progress w/out using diamonds, but I don't see an option for the research I want to do.

Looks like there is no way to earn diamonds other then spending hard earned cash. To bad, looks like a fun game.

I could not find any info in the Forums about how diamonds work and I still can't find how we go about getting more, only that we can purchase them. Is this the only way possible.. really? Do we need them or can I progress through with just the quests, relics and gold?

There isn't a non-diamond way to build the anchor point for the flying boat. It is diamonds or you cannot build it.

What happen to the auto fight now its negotiate with only diamonds, I have no diamonds is it time to leave the game now?

I have enjoyed my time here and I have bought diamonds several times, but have to ask about the requirement to buy diamonds to continue research. Is that going to stay in place, or is it going to change. I was looking through the requirements for new tech research and almost all of them require a decent amount of ambrosia which requires diamonds.

 

[DeletedUser2191]

Not knowing which threads each of these quotes are from to understand the full argument of each quote in my opinion skewers what you are attempting to bring awareness of.

Just reading the quotes as they stand alone, nearly all of them are situations where the player did not have enough coins, supplies, goods and or knowledge points to move forward. When this happens, the option to use diamonds to make up the difference is available.

The one quote regarding the flying boat, which is an Elven culture building (I'm human side in game), I don't know the requirements/ mechanics for building it. Without seeing the full thread it belongs to, again we don't know the full argument. This could also be the wording of a lead in quest or building description that confused the player. I made such a thread due to the wording, which led me to believe I needed the human magic chasm culture building (diamond only purchase) to progress further, which was not the case.

As is the case in pretty much any games forums, there are people who claim "they could not find any info". In this day and age it's more they are too lazy to browse the forums or search them to try and find an answer for their enquiry.

I will agree about diamonds with regards to upgrading the builders hut and magic academy, wish they would have implemented some sort of coins/ supplies/ goods and or KP method to progress these further.

I have been playing since March of this year. Upon registering for the game, I got 100 diamonds start up bonus. Once I got in them game, there was a balance of 200 diamonds, so we are given 100 diamonds already to begin with. That 100 diamonds (not including sign up bonuses) gets used fairly early to upgrade the builders hut if I remember correctly (if not magic academy). That would leave everyone with a 0 balance of diamonds.

Currently I have 150 diamonds (100 sign up bonus + 50 we got just a few weeks ago with an update), I am about 35 % through chapter 4 with over 10k city score and have not purchased any diamonds. As I check on forums quite often, I know there are players who have also stated their progress without buying diamonds and are much more advanced than myself.

Soo I don't think the necessity of diamonds is the real problem. There are a lot of power number hungry players in the game, which makes it difficult for new players to get into the game properly especially a fellowship to want to continue playing further. Just look at some of the city score requirements to join when reading the bio of a fellowship. The fellowship I'm in, when we need to remove an inactive player and replace with a new one, we don't focus on city score. We try to get hopefully a honest answer of their level of playing activity and what boosted goods they bring based on what the fellowship needs for the best fit. From there it is about guidance and leading them in the right direction. Sure our overall score may dip but that's what guiding and helping out your fellow memberships is for, to allow them to grow the best possible way they want to.

I would also say with Innogames allowing a city in each world on the same account plays a part in it. This allows for 1 or more cities to be looked after less as it's not the players main city of focus (not true for every player). Same can be said for multiple accounts being created. These factors help create the stale/ dead/ inactive cities which can deter players. They don't get the reciprocating NH and trades in return that they do and start thinking it will be impossible to progress in the game.

I'm sure there are plenty more reasons other than diamonds for players choosing not to remain with the game. What I have written are just my thoughts on this subject.

 

[DeletedUser61]

Not knowing which threads each of these quotes are from

The quotes are all attributed, which is a really need aspect of our forum software. Just click the little arrow after each name.

there are people who claim "they could not find any info".

While I totally agree with you, I'm a forum junkie from way back, the interesting challenge is providing a game that DOES NOT need outside references for the folks who prefer to just muddle through. That's also a legitimate playing style.

I'm sure there are plenty more reasons other than diamonds for players choosing not to remain with the game.

InnoGames is using tools that allow them to chart EXACTLY where folks are spending their time, and where they stall out. See https://www.adjust.com/analytics/

I would also say with Innogames allowing a city in each world on the same account plays a part in it.

Especially with a City Builder, experimental cities are a major convenience, or perhaps even a necessity. Once the developers manage to implement the new immigration policy, soon™, I suspect that clearing out the abandoned cities will be a part of it. We already have Goldmines, which were a move in the right direction.

Just look at some of the city score requirements to join when reading the bio of a fellowship.

I'm quite willing to take a few easy shots at the Power Players in their Gated Communities, but they're actually a symptom of the problem, rather than the problem itself. As soon as engaging your new neighbors becomes an EFFECTIVE way to play the game, including reciprocal contributions to their entry level Ancient Wonders and favoring their Tournaments, then the power players will respond accordingly. So the burden is on InnoGames for this one. We can grumble all we want about what folks "should" do, but they're going to do what best suits their own interests.

the option to use diamonds to make up the difference is available.

I'd actually like to see a Tutorials Only world that

• ALWAYS requires a Tutorial
• Does not allow the use of Diamonds (not even to upgrade the Builder's Hut)
• Maxes out at the end of Chapter 1
• Has an optional "Start Over" box adjacent to the first box on the Tech Tree

We could use it for a sandbox, for a variety of contests, and as a FOCUS GROUP to tune the tutorials.

Some of the relics will provide manufacturing boosts, and they'll also be needed (later in the game) to create Spells and upgrade your Ancient Wonders.

Just being clear about the difference between Goods and Relics is one of the vagaries that I've previously suggested.

new folks who think that diamonds are required in this game

I'm of two minds about this. It's actually ALREADY quite clear, and it would be unrealistic to expect text that says "Don't buy anything from our store."

I'm more than a little bit suspicious of folks who think that they SHOULD get a free ride, but on the other hand I'm delighted to spend a few Diamond to ENCOURAGE the development of the playing style that I prefer. The wiki is actually VERY clear about Diamonds. See https://en.wiki.elvenar.com/index.php?title=Interface#HUD_.2F_Top_Bar

I don't think we need to get TOO excited about the meaning of "Free to Play". Even my pre-school grandkids understand the concept.

 

[DeletedUser594]

I think for a new player it's not entirely clear. You mention the wiki but why would a new player even know that exists? I joined and could navigate my way to information but only because I had played FoE. However, when I started FoE I was not only new to the game but new to online gaming in general as are many Elvenar players. This game has a lot of moving parts and a non-intuitive interface, at least for the uninitiated. I must have spent a month playing Forge completely zoomed into my city, going house top to house top collecting each structure individually bcs I didn't have any inkling a different view would be an option- don't get me started on trying to pick up my deposit on the map so I could make grapes.

I'm all for inno making some $ and have happily spent cash on both games- I would like to see more games like these from them and happily support this "for profit" enterprise.
That being said the interface in this game does feel a tad slippery to me in delineating where diamonds are an option and not a necessity. Adding a simple "or" to the tech unlocks or in some of the expansion situations would clarify that you don't need the diamonds but do have the option:

Spoiler: Diamond option

I'm happy for inno to make money but I do feel they present certain aspects of the game in a way that can easily be confused as requiring diamonds and I imagine more than a few sales were made simply from player misunderstanding.

 

[DeletedUser43]

I'm more than a little bit suspicious of folks

I don't think we need to get TOO excited

It's actually ALREADY quite clear

If you don't care about retention rates....

 

[DeletedUser61]

If you don't care about retention rates....

This may come as a surprise, but dragging folks through content is just another way of being a Control Freak.

Folks stick around if you help them learn how to PLAY the game effectively, not if you play it for them.
That would be like showing somebody how to ride a bicycle. It doesn't work that way.

 

[DeletedUser43]

Repeating the same mistakes and expecting different results is the definition of insanity.

Whatever. Not my company.

Maybe I am the insane one thinking that I should waste my expertise on giving this company any suggestions just to be beaten down all the time.

Sure. You're right Kat. Everything is just perfect. No need to change a thing.

 

[DeletedUser3024]

I guess the question I have is why does it cost diamonds to conduct a battle? Is this the game-maker's way of forcing you to play the game with no fighting? If that's the case, why do they insist you have a barracks and an armory? And then have to upgrade them?
Makes no sense to me.

 

[DeletedUser43]

I guess the question I have is why does it cost diamonds to conduct a battle?

It doesn't. You don't have to spend diamonds to conduct a battle.

 

[DeletedUser3024]

Actually, I apologize. I see now that the diamonds at the bottom at the end of the battle are the number needed to 'resurrect' the dead. As usual, I jumped to an unwarranted conclusion. But, I am learning. Thanks, Bobbykitty.

 

[DeletedUser1010]

I agree with bobbykitty I think maybe something like- the first time as a new player you get to a point where you don't have enough coins/supply/goods for something, having a little pop-up saying "oh no looks like you don't have enough( insert whatever it is you need more of ) you can wait until you have more or finsh now with diamonds" would be great bc honestly when I first started I was one of the ones who thought I had to buy diamonds to negotiate a fight! Though I did fig it out soon after but still it is misleading if your not (and new players may not be)paying really close attention to everything. Just my experience and thoughta

 

[Deleted User - 107391]

As usual, I find myself in complete agreement with Bobykitty.

...post after post from new folks who think that diamonds are required ... How many players are we losing because of this? ... misconception appears common?

.... It's actually ALREADY quite clear, ..." (NO, it is NOT - Taro)

... The wiki is actually VERY clear about Diamonds. See https://en.wiki.elvenar.com/index.php?title=Interface#HUD_.2F_Top_Bar
(You know, I've been playing since - August, I think - and I've never once seen the wiki. - Taro)

I don't think we need to get TOO excited about the meaning of "Free to Play". Even my pre-school grandkids understand the concept. (Personally, I think your grankids probably spend too much time online. - Taro)

Most people have lives outside of game playing. Thank goodness. We don't spend hours on wiki and tutorials and forums. A game needs to be VERY specific about its requirements, internally.

I think for a new player it's not entirely clear. You mention the wiki but why would a new player even know that exists? ...

I'm all for inno making some $ and have happily spent cash on both games- I would like to see more games like these from them and happily support this "for profit" enterprise.

That being said the interface in this game does feel a tad slippery (Just a TAD? - Taro) to me in delineating where diamonds are an option and not a necessity. Adding a simple "or" to the tech unlocks or in some of the expansion situations would clarify that you don't need the diamonds but do have the option: (as noted)

I'm happy for inno to make money but I do feel they present certain aspects of the game in a way that can easily be confused as requiring diamonds and I imagine more than a few sales were made simply from player misunderstanding.(Emphasis mine - Taro)

REPEATING THE SAME MISTAKES AND EXPECTING DIFFERENT RESULTS IS THE DEFINITION OF INSANITY. (emphasis mine - Taro)

... maybe something like- "... you can wait until you have more or finish now with diamonds" would be great ...

It is NOT clear.

It is NOT clear.

It is NOT clear.

 

[DeletedUser3024]

Ok, I'm still a little confused about diamonds. I keep reading that you can play the game without using diamonds, but I see there seem to be certain things that actually can only be achieved by spending diamonds. One seems to be a Premium Expansion. I achieved one by upgrading my main hall, but it says to place it I must spend diamonds. If that's the case, then what's the point of upgrading the Hall?
Also under Culture, the Anchor Point and Shrine of Enar require spending diamonds.
So, if you don't spend diamonds, you can't get those particular cultural items. Is that correct?

Also, I just discovered that I need 250 diamonds to upgrade my magic hall. How do people actually advance without spending any diamonds?

 

[DeletedUser43]

Lots of culture buildings do require diamonds, but you don't need those culture buildings to play.

I don't even have a magic academy. But yes, if you want to upgrade it you will need diamonds.

Diamonds make the game easier and faster, but you don't need them to play.

 

[DeletedUser627]

Not knowing which threads each of these quotes are from to understand the full argument of each quote in my opinion skewers what you are attempting to bring awareness of.

Just reading the quotes as they stand alone, nearly all of them are situations where the player did not have enough coins, supplies, goods and or knowledge points to move forward. When this happens, the option to use diamonds to make up the difference is available.

The one quote regarding the flying boat, which is an Elven culture building (I'm human side in game), I don't know the requirements/ mechanics for building it. Without seeing the full thread it belongs to, again we don't know the full argument. This could also be the wording of a lead in quest or building description that confused the player. I made such a thread due to the wording, which led me to believe I needed the human magic chasm culture building (diamond only purchase) to progress further, which was not the case.

As is the case in pretty much any games forums, there are people who claim "they could not find any info". In this day and age it's more they are too lazy to browse the forums or search them to try and find an answer for their enquiry.

I will agree about diamonds with regards to upgrading the builders hut and magic academy, wish they would have implemented some sort of coins/ supplies/ goods and or KP method to progress these further.

I have been playing since March of this year. Upon registering for the game, I got 100 diamonds start up bonus. Once I got in them game, there was a balance of 200 diamonds, so we are given 100 diamonds already to begin with. That 100 diamonds (not including sign up bonuses) gets used fairly early to upgrade the builders hut if I remember correctly (if not magic academy). That would leave everyone with a 0 balance of diamonds.

Currently I have 150 diamonds (100 sign up bonus + 50 we got just a few weeks ago with an update), I am about 35 % through chapter 4 with over 10k city score and have not purchased any diamonds. As I check on forums quite often, I know there are players who have also stated their progress without buying diamonds and are much more advanced than myself.

Soo I don't think the necessity of diamonds is the real problem. There are a lot of power number hungry players in the game, which makes it difficult for new players to get into the game properly especially a fellowship to want to continue playing further. Just look at some of the city score requirements to join when reading the bio of a fellowship. The fellowship I'm in, when we need to remove an inactive player and replace with a new one, we don't focus on city score. We try to get hopefully a honest answer of their level of playing activity and what boosted goods they bring based on what the fellowship needs for the best fit. From there it is about guidance and leading them in the right direction. Sure our overall score may dip but that's what guiding and helping out your fellow memberships is for, to allow them to grow the best possible way they want to.

I would also say with Innogames allowing a city in each world on the same account plays a part in it. This allows for 1 or more cities to be looked after less as it's not the players main city of focus (not true for every player). Same can be said for multiple accounts being created. These factors help create the stale/ dead/ inactive cities which can deter players. They don't get the reciprocating NH and trades in return that they do and start thinking it will be impossible to progress in the game.

I'm sure there are plenty more reasons other than diamonds for players choosing not to remain with the game. What I have written are just my thoughts on this subject.

We're delighted to have fresh opinions here - so thanks for putting your valuable time and energy to this. And don't worry if Katwijk dissects your comments without a point becoming clear - it's just one of those things.

ciao!

 

[DeletedUser61]

You only need the first two Magic Academy slots. The remaining slots are a convenience feature that allows you to queue up more Spells, for longer runs. The Barracks uses that same model.

The Builder's Hut is similar, in that you'll get the first builder for free, the 2nd slot while you're doing the tutorial, and if you need MORE builders then you have to use Diamonds. HOWEVER, once you get into the advanced stages of the game, upgrading a Workshop, for example, costs more than a million coins, so MORE builders are sort of pointless.

The only real "must have" premium feature are the premium only expansions that become available, one for each time you upgrade your Main Hall, but even then the restriction is on how MANY things you can do, with 20% more space, rather than on what you can do.

• 31 City Expansions require Coins, but you can also use some Diamonds if you're in a hurry
• 64 Province Expansions have already been paid for
• 19 Premium (Main Hall) Expansions are premium only

See https://en.wiki.elvenar.com/index.php?title=Expansions#City_Expansions_Overview.

without a point becoming clear

None so deaf as those that will not hear.
None so blind as those that will not see.
- Matthew Henry

 

[DeletedUser627]

Ok, I'm still a little confused about diamonds. I keep reading that you can play the game without using diamonds, but I see there seem to be certain things that actually can only be achieved by spending diamonds. One seems to be a Premium Expansion. I achieved one by upgrading my main hall, but it says to place it I must spend diamonds. If that's the case, then what's the point of upgrading the Hall?
Also under Culture, the Anchor Point and Shrine of Enar require spending diamonds.
So, if you don't spend diamonds, you can't get those particular cultural items. Is that correct?

Also, I just discovered that I need 250 diamonds to upgrade my magic hall. How do people actually advance without spending any diamonds?

NOTE: separate post in order to adequately response to newer user.

Nighthawk: About the Main Hall Premium Expansion - yes, it's available only via diamonds. Even if you don't use it, game progress depends on upgrading the hall, so you haven't wasted time.

Correct, if you don't spent diamonds, you can't get certain culture / premium buildings. As of now, there's no available medium of exchange to occasionally bridge the gap.

There's a general consensus, that if you can spend a few dollars, upgrade your builder. Three builders work perfectly for a city that has no Premium Expansions purchased (by that, I mean that 3 builders stay steadily busy building and upgrading...).

Buying land expansions is trickier. I have a city just beginning Dwarven level, with no purchased expansions. I have just enough space to keep moving forward at a steady space (balanced goods production that meets everything for upgrading and new provinces). In a city like this - I keep thinking "what good would it really do if I bought just a couple of expansions?" Really, nothing. It wouldn't make a significant difference in the progress of my city, because my 3 builders couldn't keep up. This might change during Dwarven level...

My other city has all the purchased Expansions. It's my big city with 5 builders. Just know that expansions get progressively more expensive - pretty quickly. But it's the only way to get access to all the available grids.

Unless you really like them, probably avoid the early premium culture buildings. As you move ahead in the game, they become of less value than the free buildings!!! I was not a happy camper when I had to delete all the ones I'd spent money on!


Update 8/15: I've dropped this nopay city, due to the Orc negotiations. I didn't want to tediously try to finish Dwarven Age, go entirely through Fairy, and early into Orc with ZERO earned expansions.

 

[DeletedUser3024]

NOTE: separate post in order to adequately response to newer user.

Nighthawk: About the Main Hall Premium Expansion - yes, it's available only via diamonds. Even if you don't use it, game progress depends on upgrading the hall, so you haven't wasted time.

Correct, if you don't spent diamonds, you can't get certain culture / premium buildings. As of now, there's no available medium of exchange to occasionally bridge the gap.

There's a general consensus, that if you can spend a few dollars, upgrade your builder. Three builders work perfectly for a city that has no Premium Expansions purchased (by that, I mean that 3 builders stay steadily busy building and upgrading...).

Buying land expansions is trickier. I have a city just beginning Dwarven level, with no purchased expansions. I have just enough space to keep moving forward at a steady space (balanced goods production that meets everything for upgrading and new provinces). In a city like this - I keep thinking "what good would it really do if I bought just a couple of expansions?" Really, nothing. It wouldn't make a significant difference in the progress of my city, because my 3 builders couldn't keep up. This might change during Dwarven level...

My other city has all the purchased Expansions. It's my big city with 5 builders. Just know that expansions get progressively more expensive - pretty quickly. But it's the only way to get access to all the available grids.

Unless you really like them, probably avoid the early premium culture buildings. As you move ahead in the game, they become of less value than the free buildings!!! I was not a happy camper when I had to delete all the ones I'd spent money on!

Thank you, bobbipiazza and Katwijk, for explaining a lot to me. I appreciate it.

"Free Buildings"? What free buildings?

I do have 3 builders. I'm skipping upgrading the barracks, builder's hut and magic academy since that'll cost diamonds and I've already spent too much real money for some diamonds. (My bad. I got in a hurry) I'm going to avoid any items that can only be bought with diamonds.

Taking more time now. Right now I'm upgrading all my residences. I will have to have an expansion to move residences around when they require that bigger space. And I'm slowly upgrading the workshops. I'm thinking now I built too many workshops and might be better off selling some off and upgrading the remainder. Anybody have any thoughts on that? Like, a level 5 shop would be equal to how many level 2 shops?

Ah well, it's a learning curve and I'm a little obtuse sometimes.

 

[DeletedUser]

I was not a happy camper when I had to delete all the ones I'd spent money on!

How RIGHT you are!!! I second that emotion. Deleting buildings you bought with diamonds is NO fun at all.

 

[DeletedUser43]

On every level you reach they offer new culture buildings that are better than the ones before. And since we don't have any way to store anything, people end up deleting the buildings they just bought with better ones. It can get super expensive. But, you don't ever have to buy any of those buildings either. So this game can be played totally free.