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    Your Elvenar Team

Cost for training a single unit? (training time?)

Yarl

New Member
I have finished Chapter XV and all of my 9 combat types are at level 3. My combat-related buildings and combat Ancient Wonders vary from level 1 to 21.

About half of my light melee and light ranged fighters have a build time of 1 second for a unit. I am guessing that is as good as it gets.

A Gruff Orc Warrior (Heavy Melee) and a Senior Orc Strategist (Heavy Ranged) both have a build time of 2 seconds for a unit. Can I get that down to 1 second? How do I get it down to 1 second? I will go over to the elvenarchitect page and play with building levels to see if I can get the time to go down or the unit size to go up.

A Vallorian Champion takes 6 seconds to make 1 unit. That is the longest amount of time for my 9 combat types.

I have noticed that the Vallorian Valor buildings are much more valuable than the Grounds of the Orc Strategist, and now I think I see why. I have 18 of each and have been observing what happens with them. The Vallorians number 200-300 units on a weekly basis and the Orc Strategists number 40-60 units. So, something is definitely is going on with those Vallorians -- maybe it produces 3 times as many units somehow? I estimate that 25+ Vallorian Champions are produced each week.

Do people look at combat production from this perspective (number of seconds to produce 1 unit)?
 
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Enevhar Aldarion

Well-Known Member
I have finished Chapter XV and all of my 9 combat types are at level 3. My combat-related buildings and combat Ancient Wonders vary from level 1 to 21.

About half of my light melee and light ranged fighters have a build time of 1 second for a unit. I am guessing that is as good as it gets.

A Gruff Orc Warrior (Heavy Melee) and a Senior Orc Strategist (Heavy Ranged) both have a build time of 2 seconds for a unit. Can I get that down to 1 second? How do I get it down to 1 second? I will go over to the elvenarchitect page and play with building levels to see if I can get the time to go down or the unit size to go up.

A Vallorian Champion takes 6 seconds to make 1 unit. That is the longest amount of time for my 9 combat types.

I have noticed that the Vallorian Valor buildings are much more valuable than the Grounds of the Orc Strategist, and now I think I see why. I have 18 of each and have been observing what happens with them. The Vallorians number 200-300 units on a weekly basis and the Orc Strategists number 40-60 units. So, something is definitely is going on with those Vallorians -- maybe it produces 3 times as many units somehow? I estimate that 25+ Vallorian Champions are produced each week.

Do people look at combat production from this perspective (number of seconds to produce 1 unit)?
Yes, I would guess that getting the basic production time down to one second is the best we can do. And then any unit that produces at a higher time than the base units would not go lower than those times either because they are multipliers of the base time. The only way those troops could go lower is if the base units could be made in less than one second per troop, which I think is impossible at this time.

As for your Valor and Strategist buildings, I think yours must still be from very early chapters to be making so few troops. A single Valor building created in chapter 15 would make 310 Vallorian Guards in 18 hours. And a single Grounds of the Orc Strategist created in chapter 15 would make 370 Orc Strategists in 12 hours.
 

samidodamage

Well-Known Member
@Enevhar Aldarion has more accurate total production numbers for chapter level bldgs. I think the difference between the numbers generated by each bldg is also due to the unit weight. Strats are a 2 and Vallorians are a 6, so 3 Strats = 1 Vallorian (I think, lol! That may be backwards, but I've tried it both ways and my brain is currently saying this is correct, lol!)
 

Yarl

New Member
As for your Valor and Strategist buildings, I think yours must still be from very early chapters to be making so few troops. A single Valor building created in chapter 15 would make 310 Vallorian Guards in 18 hours. And a single Grounds of the Orc Strategist created in chapter 15 would make 370 Orc Strategists in 12 hours.
What I meant to say was that the 18 Valor buildings produce 200-300 Vallorian Champions *squads* per week. The Grounds of the Orc Strategist buildings only produce 40-60 Orc Strategists *squads* per week.

Since I wrote the original message I have greatly increased my training sizes and the number of squads created has gone down, which makes sense.
 

Pheryll

Well-Known Member
What I meant to say was that the 18 Valor buildings produce 200-300 Vallorian Champions *squads* per week. The Grounds of the Orc Strategist buildings only produce 40-60 Orc Strategists *squads* per week.

Since I wrote the original message I have greatly increased my training sizes and the number of squads created has gone down, which makes sense.
Your math is off.

Valorian Valor efficiency: 310 (production) x 6 (unit size) / 18 (production time) / 9 (building size) = 11.49 size/square/hour
Grounds of the Orc Strategist efficiency: 370 (production) x 2 (unit size) / 12 (production time) / 8 (building size) = 7.71 size/square/hour

So the Valorian Valor is about 50% more effective at producing units. However, orc strategist would normally cost orcs, so you would save the time of orc production. If you were planning to produce the needed orcs from an armory, then the orcs production to the training of orc units costs a slightly higher amount of supplies than training non-orc units.
 
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CrazyWizard

Well-Known Member
I have finished Chapter XV and all of my 9 combat types are at level 3. My combat-related buildings and combat Ancient Wonders vary from level 1 to 21.

About half of my light melee and light ranged fighters have a build time of 1 second for a unit. I am guessing that is as good as it gets.

A Gruff Orc Warrior (Heavy Melee) and a Senior Orc Strategist (Heavy Ranged) both have a build time of 2 seconds for a unit. Can I get that down to 1 second? How do I get it down to 1 second? I will go over to the elvenarchitect page and play with building levels to see if I can get the time to go down or the unit size to go up.

A Vallorian Champion takes 6 seconds to make 1 unit. That is the longest amount of time for my 9 combat types.

I have noticed that the Vallorian Valor buildings are much more valuable than the Grounds of the Orc Strategist, and now I think I see why. I have 18 of each and have been observing what happens with them. The Vallorians number 200-300 units on a weekly basis and the Orc Strategists number 40-60 units. So, something is definitely is going on with those Vallorians -- maybe it produces 3 times as many units somehow? I estimate that 25+ Vallorian Champions are produced each week.

Do people look at combat production from this perspective (number of seconds to produce 1 unit)?
that 1 second is a rounding the actual production time is fractional. if you produce one 1 unit it's 1 second but maybe 4 uits can also be 1 second, or 2 units might be 3 seconds depending on the rounding.

If you search the forum you might find my list where I post the exact numbers you need to calculate the numbers.
Maybe someone else has stored the link to that post.
 

Enevhar Aldarion

Well-Known Member
that 1 second is a rounding the actual production time is fractional. if you produce one 1 unit it's 1 second but maybe 4 uits can also be 1 second, or 2 units might be 3 seconds depending on the rounding.

If you search the forum you might find my list where I post the exact numbers you need to calculate the numbers.
Maybe someone else has stored the link to that post.
Are you ready to update those numbers once we can level our AWs up to 35? :)
 

CrazyWizard

Well-Known Member
Are you ready to update those numbers once we can level our AWs up to 35? :)
I sencerely hope this will stayput for a while, I still need time to level those last wonders.
It kinda sucks in some sense as I am finally catching up with the quick pushers, but now they will be walking away again, in general fine but I prefer to first catch up with them before it is released.

I hope it will be for chapter 17 as level 30 was known long, long before it was released, If chapter 17 will be announced I should be at the point I want to be.
I expect chapter 17 to be a long time out, as the new chapter seems to be one of the very long run, not to be replaced in 6-9 months but more 9-12 months.
 

Enevhar Aldarion

Well-Known Member
I sencerely hope this will stayput for a while, I still need time to level those last wonders.
It kinda sucks in some sense as I am finally catching up with the quick pushers, but now they will be walking away again, in general fine but I prefer to first catch up with them before it is released.

I hope it will be for chapter 17 as level 30 was known long, long before it was released, If chapter 17 will be announced I should be at the point I want to be.
I expect chapter 17 to be a long time out, as the new chapter seems to be one of the very long run, not to be replaced in 6-9 months but more 9-12 months.
Hm, I thought I read on the Beta forums that the increase to level 35 was added at the same time that chapter 16 was released there. Was that incorrect?
 

CrazyWizard

Well-Known Member
Hm, I thought I read on the Beta forums that the increase to level 35 was added at the same time that chapter 16 was released there. Was that incorrect?
Thats indeed incorrect, there is a mayor difference between added to the gamefiles and released into the game.
Just like chapter 16 was already in the gamefiles for weeks / months before it was released op beta.

So wonders are now already prepared to be at level 35 but not released, no one knows when they will release it, but do not expect it to be quick.
At least more than a month before it will be on beta, and I expect it to be longer.

I both do understand and don't understand the move.

It is insanely difficult to get many of those wonders in a fair manner,
I have battled agains pushing so hard and at a certain moment when they told those people did nothing wrong, I had to join the bandwagon or be left behind,
So I joined the bandwagon in an open and public protest (I openly told it at the forums they left me no choice and kept that stance for quite a while openly)
when 2 years ago they finally started to do something agains pushing and I got a message on beta about a german player being caught I instantely quitted to push, this coincedentely combined with the improved wonder rewards that gave an alternative option to collect KP.

Each chapter since then I have been able to level my wonders fair and square and improve some of the old ones that were not max already to the point I am now where there are 3 or so wonders I havent build / leveled and most of them are 30 or between 26-30.

Why I am not getting it is why are they releasing more levels as this is in most cases just pushing territory. and in general promotes it.
I have been able to keep up and improve the past 2 years but the process has been very slow.

I do get it because plenty of wonders start to get behind on power compared to regular buildings.
So it's a double edged sword.

I wonder since there is a limit on how much level wonder can get, you can't have wonders with a 120% return on values you put in there.

A clear example is Monestary/Sanctuary combined with I think the watchtower. currently there return on culture is like 80% with level 35 they might go to 90%, at level 40 it's free and beyond 40 you get more culture then you put into it?

That doesnt make sense.
 

Enevhar Aldarion

Well-Known Member
@Pheryll @CrazyWizard I found the post I was remembering, and yeah, just datamining stuff for now. But like I posted in the Bugs thread about not being able to change to a new favorite AW if the one you had as your favorite was leveled to 30, I wonder if this being in the data/code, even though not active yet, is somehow interfering with the ability to switch to a new favorite AW from your now level 30 AW?
 

Pheryll

Well-Known Member
A clear example is Monestary/Sanctuary combined with I think the watchtower. currently there return on culture is like 80% with level 35 they might go to 90%, at level 40 it's free and beyond 40 you get more culture then you put into it?

That doesnt make sense.
To be accurate it is the 170% milestone that would need to be obtained for the culture bonus to be free. However the bring decay reduction down to zero for other wonders does not make much sense, especially with the Simia Sapiens where you would lose the conversion to normal goods by having 0% decay. Nor does boosting the Blooming trader guild trades beyond the 2 star exchange of level 30 (the increase was huge to get from 20% exchange up to 100% exchange, continuing on at that rate would go into the realm of significant profit, e.g. 112% at level 35).
 

Pheryll

Well-Known Member
@Pheryll @CrazyWizard I found the post I was remembering, and yeah, just datamining stuff for now. But like I posted in the Bugs thread about not being able to change to a new favorite AW if the one you had as your favorite was leveled to 30, I wonder if this being in the data/code, even though not active yet, is somehow interfering with the ability to switch to a new favorite AW from your now level 30 AW?
Take your issue to support. I think the developers did provide a hotfix automatically deselecting favorite when the KP bar is full, and preventing favoriting a wonder that cannot accept KP. However this hotfix was likely after you had your problem.
 

Enevhar Aldarion

Well-Known Member
Take your issue to support. I think the developers did provide a hotfix automatically deselecting favorite when the KP bar is full. However this hotfix was likely after you had your problem.
I personally did not have the problem, but several others have and the bug report is still open, with no reply yet from any of the mods saying it was being worked on or anything.
 

CrazyWizard

Well-Known Member
To be accurate it is the 170% milestone that would need to be obtained for the culture bonus to be free. However the bring decay reduction down to zero for other wonders does not make much sense, especially with the Simia Sapiens where you would lose the conversion to normal goods by having 0% decay. Nor does boosting the Blooming trader guild trades beyond the 2 star exchange of level 30 (the increase was huge to get from 20% exchange up to 100% exchange, continuing on at that rate would go into the realm of significant profit, e.g. 112% at level 35).
I am talking about the point where building houses, armories and other buildings give a netto gain in culture instead of costing any culture.
But your point about the trader and sapiens are just as valid if not more.