Enevhar Aldarion
Oh Wise One
I have, just recently too. There are a few players around me who post 2-star trades offering 4500 tier 1 for 2000 tier 3.
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Your Elvenar Team
Cross-tier trades
- Thread starter satchmo33
- Start date
I have, just recently too. There are a few players around me who post 2-star trades offering 4500 tier 1 for 2000 tier 3.
SoggyShorts
Mathematician par Excellence
Sorry, by "thousands" I was thinking like ten trades of 45,000 planks for 20,000 gems.
I routinely for years seen several of the opposite trades in every city.
Edit: went into the trader just now on one city. 12 of 23 pages were cross trades, ALL offering T3.
Edit2: second city all 9 of 9 pages are cross trades, again offering all T3
Edit 3: final city after clearing 5 pages of same-tier trades left with 13 pages of cross trades, all offering T3 except for 2 pages offering scrolls for T1.
so, are there exceptions? Obviously, there always are but the fact remains that the vast majority are downstream.
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Enevhar Aldarion
Oh Wise One
Yeah, the old system was horrible for those offering 1000 tier 3 for 16000 tier 1. But the new system makes the cross-trades that are 2-star reasonable. If it is a good I need, I am fine now with taking those trades. And in my Beta city, I consistently have less tier 2 than tier 1, so I have offered 2-star trades of tier 1 for tier 2 before.
LutherTheHairy
Active Member
Thank you, @SoggyShorts for rehashing the thread. It is terribly long, and I figured that was more a sign of it getting emotional than new content.
Not necessarily. It could point to players tending to want to have equal areas for each tier of goods. My main city has a 7:2 ratio of T1 to T2 good area, and about 2:1 T1:T2 . If people have too much T3, it could be due to a manufacturing imbalance, or perhaps because many event buildings in my chapter area seem to offer up T3 goods. I have at times offered large amounts of steel for powder in a 2 star trade to bring some into our fellowship from neighbors , which until recently was often short on it. My neighbors oblige me.
In another city, the fellowship I joined was well matched in T1 goods, but was deficient in my T2 boost so I focussed more on that to help out the team. I have a 1:1 ratio in that city atm. (T3 is lower is more like 1:2)
I have never been in a fellowship that has a rule against cross trades so I am blind to these rules. Thank you for sharing what you have observed.
(I don't generally read all the details in fellowship descriptions but "no cross trades" is often in the first line that I see as I click through to the members list of the fellowship a neighbor belongs to when I am curious about it.) This second fact only tells me that there is more demand for T1 goods than T3... but doesn't that just circle back to the point that more area could be devoted to T1 and less to T3 to resolve this problem?
[EDIT]
Ah...NOW I think I understand even better. You and I play in different sized sandboxes. I have maybe posted trades that size just a handful of times. My chapter is too early. I am wondering if the T1 to T3 imbalance is something that is a more common problem in later chapter cities, and newer cities cutting our teeth on the new 1,2, 3 star ranking system end up growing our cities in different ways making the problem vanish. Perhaps when I am chapter XI-XII in about a year (chapter 7 now) I will understand...or maybe I will just continue to produce WAY more T1 and help balance the equation.
thanks for your thoughts on all this. It really does help me understand.
Not necessarily. It could point to players tending to want to have equal areas for each tier of goods. My main city has a 7:2 ratio of T1 to T2 good area, and about 2:1 T1:T2 . If people have too much T3, it could be due to a manufacturing imbalance, or perhaps because many event buildings in my chapter area seem to offer up T3 goods. I have at times offered large amounts of steel for powder in a 2 star trade to bring some into our fellowship from neighbors , which until recently was often short on it. My neighbors oblige me.
In another city, the fellowship I joined was well matched in T1 goods, but was deficient in my T2 boost so I focussed more on that to help out the team. I have a 1:1 ratio in that city atm. (T3 is lower is more like 1:2)
I have never been in a fellowship that has a rule against cross trades so I am blind to these rules. Thank you for sharing what you have observed.
(I don't generally read all the details in fellowship descriptions but "no cross trades" is often in the first line that I see as I click through to the members list of the fellowship a neighbor belongs to when I am curious about it.) This second fact only tells me that there is more demand for T1 goods than T3... but doesn't that just circle back to the point that more area could be devoted to T1 and less to T3 to resolve this problem?
[EDIT]
Ah...NOW I think I understand even better. You and I play in different sized sandboxes. I have maybe posted trades that size just a handful of times. My chapter is too early. I am wondering if the T1 to T3 imbalance is something that is a more common problem in later chapter cities, and newer cities cutting our teeth on the new 1,2, 3 star ranking system end up growing our cities in different ways making the problem vanish. Perhaps when I am chapter XI-XII in about a year (chapter 7 now) I will understand...or maybe I will just continue to produce WAY more T1 and help balance the equation.
thanks for your thoughts on all this. It really does help me understand.
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Darielle
Chef, Scroll-Keeper, and Buddy Fan Club Member
I once joined Cross-Tier Pirates; they encourage cross tiers and have since before the rule change. Of course, some may take exception with the "Pirates" part of that fellowship, lol, but I think it was simply a Pirate-themed fs. And absolutely no one gouged or did one star trades. All of them 2 or 3.
But, that said, I do get your point. Most fs do hate them.
CrusaderMichael
Active Member
The fact some people actually get angry over cross tier trades and start pulling out their calculators to prove things, is all the more reason to post them.
I almost joined a FS just to start posting them... the FS has a big long anti cross tier trade section in their home screen.
Reminds me of the spreadsheet dudes getting all angry at leroy jenkins.
Someone needs to make a FS that is cross tier trading only
I almost joined a FS just to start posting them... the FS has a big long anti cross tier trade section in their home screen.
Reminds me of the spreadsheet dudes getting all angry at leroy jenkins.
Someone needs to make a FS that is cross tier trading only
samidodamage
Buddy Fan Club member
Someone did:
See how well that's working out for them here:
Cross-Tier Pirates on ElvenStats
Truly a sustainable model
Darielle
Chef, Scroll-Keeper, and Buddy Fan Club Member
Yeah, it's been a long time since I was briefly in that group. The former AM of that group is in my current one.Someone did:
See how well that's working out for them here:
Cross-Tier Pirates on ElvenStats
Truly a sustainable model
SoggyShorts
Mathematician par Excellence
Of course, but why should I have to devote more area to tier 1 just to accept your T3 trades?
My city is balanced, it makes all of the T1, T2, and T3 that I need, but if I take a bunch of T3 for my T1 that will no longer be true, and how would I fix it?
If you make more T3 than you need and you don't make as much T1 as you need, then I think you should fix your production.
(note: none of those "you"s are directed personally, just making the point)
The old 16:1 ratio was horrific, but it did teach players how to balance their cities because no one was going to give you 16,000 planks for your 1,000 gems for very long. Partly due to that you'll find entire fellowships of players who have figured out how to design a sustainable city. Obviously, these sustainable cities would get thrown out of whack if they took cross-trades, so instead, they simply ban them.
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LutherTheHairy
Active Member
I am misunderstanding your reply (to me you are saying I am producing too much T3, therefore I want people to not be upset when I trade T3 for T1) or you missed my point, perhaps because I had a typo .
I am one of the ones offering T1 for T3. If others have too much T3, they could consider tearing down and making more T1 instead. I do not make more T3 than I need, I make the right amount, though sometimes recently I find myself overloaded with gems from taking too many trades for my T1 goods! When that happens, the fault is with me for accepting the trades, not with someone else for offering them.
The main point is, why are folks upset by cross tier trades if the problem is their own manufacturing imbalance or because they voluntarily taking too many T3 for their own T1 goods?
Kekune
Well-Known Member
I, for one, am not upset by them. But I don't want them, either. Not in large quantities. Making a rule against something doesn't mean you're "upset" about it. Just as I'm not "upset" that some players hate the spire - they can do whatever they want, they just won't be in my group.
One major purpose of a fellowship is to trade. If a person is balancing their own production, they'll have the most trading success in a group of other people who are doing the same. So for me, it isn't about any given trade. It's about the fact that if you rely on cross-tier trades, you're probably not balancing your own production, and you're therefore less helpful to me as a trade partner. From there, it's easy to draw the conclusion to ban cross-tier trades* in a group because then your members will have self- selected into a trading pattern that works for everyone in it.
*My group does not, in fact, limit cross-tier. But we did, back before the ratio changed.
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SoggyShorts
Mathematician par Excellence
As I said almost no one minds this at all. I will trade anyone millions right now if they want to give goods upstream like you are.
Exactly. Most cross traders I think start out that way because they unlock T3 and immediately build 2 or even 3 to match their T1 and T2 output not realizing that the chapter/tournament/spire does not ask for T3 in anywhere close to the same amounts at that low a level.
There were(are?) even guides that suggest a 4:4:4 factory approach and that is insane to start.
As kekune points out it's not that it makes anyone "upset" (other than the occasional misclick what in the 16:1 days could be devastating) and as I have pointed out it's an "annoyance" especially in a FS because it creates a minefield of undesirable & irreversible trades.
As a simple example, I have 3 main cities, US2, US4, and Beta.
My Beta FS has no rule against cross trades mostly because I wouldn't want to have this conversation with a language barrier.
In the live servers, I power-click and clear the trader several times per day as do other FS members. Trades are taken very quickly.
On Beta, I almost never open the trader unless someone asks for something in chat. I just can't be bothered wading through a dozen pages of trades to check if there are 1 or 2 offers that are not cross-trades.
Worst of all is that cross traders often give a tiny little bonus in their trade making it a 3 star so they are now completely mixed in with other trades.
If the sorting in the trader put all cross trades below all same-tier trades or gave me a filter or moved them to another tab, then we wouldn't be having this conversation.