• Dear forum visitor,

    It looks as though you have not registered for a forum account, or are not signed in. In order to participate in current discussions or create new threads, you will need to register for a forum account by clicking on the link below.

    Click here to register for a forum account!

    If you already have a forum account, you can simply click on the 'Log in' button at the top right of your forum screen.

    Your Elvenar Team

Crystal Tournament

Ashrem

Oh Wise One
I don't think it's necessary to reiterate your previous posts. I'm not generally arguing against your position, but I'm somehow not getting across my feeling that it's gone from being a typical (maybe slightly easy) tournament to being (I think) the most difficult by a significant level.

I don't think it's unreasonable for me to expect that I shouldn't expect to lose encounters in the second round of a page-one tournament province with a total bonus to my Heavy fighters of 74% hit points and 68% damage.
 

Mykan

Oh Wise One
Thank you for making my point. Wait till day 4 when you are trying to do 4 star and 5 star provinces. You think you are taking losses now...

To be honest I didn't notice difference in losses between early rounds and later rounds. Sure lost a bit more in later rounds but nothing I didn't consider normal.

It just so happens that frogs are in this tourny and as was mentioned the tournament is now complete to where its difficulty was intended by having all units now available. We will just have to reasses our difficulty rankings of tournaments once we get used to the new units. Just wait until we get to the tournaments with more of the other new units, like rangers in the scrolls tourny :eek: or Marble for vallorian guard.

Personally I think 3 star rangers in scrolls tournament is likely to have some people in a cold sweat right now :p considering the complaints scrolls gets every time it comes around.
 

Black watch

Well-Known Member
This is definitely tougher than crystal tourneys usually are.

Completely agree. I've noticed this and I'm shocked at my losses. I usually hit Steel, Crystal and Elixir hard because I need to make the CCs. I've been lollygagging along in S&D for many months and this tourney has doubled and for some units, tripled the damage to my army. I've got my Brown Bear working overtime to offset the damage and It's not working.
I fight a lot. Manual most times. I've used every trick I know and I'm still getting my hat handed to me. I've heard my clan mates mentioning this too.

Something seems to have changed. I've got Martial Monastery at level 23, an Unleashed Unit building deployed, A dwarven Armourer deployed, and I just lost a manual fight getting the second star in province three. The terrain has been against me in almost every battle I've fought today. this isn't about beginner vs experienced. This week's tournament is harder than past crystal tournaments. And please don't give me "crystal is harder" I've had max boost in crystal for over two years. I know what I'm doing. The frog units are unbalanced.

I've got those deployed too, plus a ELR going as well as my Fire bird. My army is decimated and i just finished my second star to 37. I just had a post detailing my production with the Brown Bear and was happy. I've lost almost 60 squads in all the recommended units for countering the enemy in Crystal, plus light ranged as canon fodder to offset the destruction.
It's clear to me that something changed and it's not good, not at all.
Your post gave me hope I wasn't loosing my mind. :)



Yeah, gonna add my voice to the chorus. This got harder. I've done my norm for the first 2 rounds, and am looking at a substantially lower troop count than I normally have at this point. I actually lost a fight fairly early on round 1 - I don't remember when is that last time that happened, in any tournament, when I fed my phoenix and placed a UUU.

Good thing I've got a brown bear now - I'm gonna need it.

My Brownie can't keep up... I feel like a rookie fighting in this tourney.
One thing though, we're all pretty much in agreement... Crystal got a lot harder.
 

Enevhar Aldarion

Oh Wise One
Looking at the complaints of people here with the Frog Princes while manually fighting them, and looking at my experiences with them while auto-fighting everything, I have to say I am having a lot less losses with auto-fight than posters here using manual fighting. I wonder if that is some sort of glitch or if they have a dumber AI in auto-fight mode because mobile-only players can only auto-fight?
 

mucksterme

Oh Wise One
Looking at the complaints of people here with the Frog Princes while manually fighting them, and looking at my experiences with them while auto-fighting everything, I have to say I am having a lot less losses with auto-fight than posters here using manual fighting. I wonder if that is some sort of glitch or if they have a dumber AI in auto-fight mode because mobile-only players can only auto-fight?

i'm having less trouble than a lot of these people also. i use auto as much as possible but switch to manual if it looks too complicated
they are definitely tougher but not unbeatable
but i also have all the military AWs leveled to at least double digits so i'm sure that helps
 

qaccy

Well-Known Member
We just a pretty bad experience with this last event... now this... Thanks INNO

As I've mentoned, this isn't anything new. Other units have been replaced in the past in other provinces as they've become available. Inno didn't do anything underhanded here; this was to be expected once 3* frogs became available as they're already the units you fight in 1 and 2* provinces. It's no different from when Banshees replaced Enchantresses in dust provinces, or when Vallorians replaced Knights in marble provinces (look for 3* versions of them now as well), or any other substitution that's occurred over the years. Unless you think those are all foul play as well, this is just business as usual and something we should all be used to by now.
 

Ashrem

Oh Wise One
As I've mentoned, this isn't anything new. Other units have been replaced in the past in other provinces as they've become available.
We get it. These are the intended units. Understood. You really don't need to keep repeating that these are the intended units.

Maybe a cooking analogy will do the trick. Just because I finally got a metric measuring set and am now able to use a 15ml measuring spoon instead of a tablespoon does not mean that my recipes suddenly ought to have more baking powder in them.

Changing to the "correct" opposition units does not perforce mean that the province was intended to, or should be, harder than it was the day before.
 

Pheryll

Well-Known Member
I don't think it's unreasonable for me to expect that I shouldn't expect to lose encounters in the second round of a page-one tournament province with a total bonus to my Heavy fighters of 74% hit points and 68% damage.

Does citing the page mean anything? By the 9th tournament province (still on the first page) all enemies have reached 3 stars. From there on the only change in the later provinces is upping the player and enemy squad sizes proportionately. If the difficulty increases so that complete losses occur on later pages, then they can also occur on page 1 under the same conditions.

That said the community themselves have leaked the info from source files about the frog's later stats long before we even saw its two star form in the game. It was not significantly buffed from what it was originally planned to be, so it is difficult to say that they recently decided to make the crystal fight harder when the planning of the unit came years prior.

Let us look at the frog stats: Increase in damage and HP from 1 star to 2 star is the same as 2 star to 3 star (roughly the same for all the units), increase in attack range from 1 star to 2 star is the same as 2 star to 3 star (fits the mold of mortar/cannoneer type units). No change in specific bonus/protection from certain units from 2 star to 3 star (again like all other units). -30% attack debuff, the same magnitude 3 star debuff as enchantress that it is paired with, but can be overridden to -20% from the orc deserter (the deserter would be the last initiative-wise to attack before the heavy melee). Nothing here really stands out as an overpowered. For the most part, the increased difficulty was in losing a vastly underpowered enemy unit, rather than gaining something that is extraordinarily impressive.

With the cannoneer, there was actually a cheap trick that kept it even weaker. The enchantress debuffs for -40% vulnerability, the 3 star cannoneer overrides that to -30% vulnerability, so that the other attackers attack with decreased damage from what they would have had from the enchantresses debuff.

EDIT: 9th instead of 7th replacement for tournament province
 
Last edited:

Ashrem

Oh Wise One
By the 7th tournament province (still on the first page) all enemies have reached 3 stars.
While there have been lots of iterations in this conversation of what the enemy should or shouldn't be, my complaint is the degree to which the terrain favours the enemy units. Maybe I just didn't do sufficient manual fighting in the past to see it, and the crystal provinces have always been laid out this way. but I am finding a high percentage of layouts where some of the heavy units can't have any effect on the combat for the first 4+ rounds, while taking hits throughout.
 

Pheryll

Well-Known Member
While there have been lots of iterations in this conversation of what the enemy should or shouldn't be, my complaint is the degree to which the terrain favours the enemy units.

The harder terrains have always been there. Their frequency; I do not know. Changes like these can be made without any patch notes.
 

Ashrem

Oh Wise One
It's tough to know if things are working as intended. The current mechanic seems to some of us to be having an over-sized negative effect. Weirdly enough, I went back to the tournament using almost strictly auto-fighting and did far better than I did on manual on Wednesday, getting two or three stars to province 12 and adding six more at one star and only minimal losses. Perhaps for the sake of processing simplicity, auto-fighting removes terrain because nobody cares about unit tactics on auto-fight? That would certainly explain my experience.
 

DeletedUser23049

Guest
These frog princes are ridiculous guys. Im doing manual battles and Im getting decimated before I can even get to them. This is the first go around. Whats it going to be like when the provinces are 4 or 5 stars. I have already lost almost 35,000 men. How are people going to want to play if you make it harder for Fellowships to get chests completed? Its one thing to fight them but half of these battles you can't get close until Rd 3.
I'm with you this game is getting harder@harder in every way,I was looking for a new 1 to start playing last night. I hate to walk away from this one got over a year @ pretty good amount of $ in it, but ENOUGH is ENOUHG.............OH yea this is only a 3 star game at best. Not just me all game sites have it at that to.
 
Last edited:

qaccy

Well-Known Member
We get it. These are the intended units. Understood. You really don't need to keep repeating that these are the intended units.

Maybe a cooking analogy will do the trick. Just because I finally got a metric measuring set and am now able to use a 15ml measuring spoon instead of a tablespoon does not mean that my recipes suddenly ought to have more baking powder in them.

Changing to the "correct" opposition units does not perforce mean that the province was intended to, or should be, harder than it was the day before.

I'm only repeating it because that's where all of the troubles people are having with the tournament this week are coming from. I've already explained away this analogy you're making by pointing out the significant difference in strength between the old units and the new ones we're facing now. You're saying now that terrain is your issue, but that can't really be the case because it wasn't an issue when it was still 3* cannoneers in the lineup, was it? At least, not one worth bringing up, right? No, the increase in difficulty has everything to do with the unit replacement because (here I am repeating it again) Cannoneers are incredibly weak units. Go back and look again at the stat comparison I made and it explains all the issues you're having with the tournament.

And for the record, I'm running through with lower boosts than you are and have yet to lose an encounter. However, I can tell from the auto results when the terrain is terrible because I've had a few battles where I lost 3-4 squads compared to the gradual increase from 1 moving up to 2 squad losses as I've been moving up in rounds.
 

Ashrem

Oh Wise One
You're saying now that terrain is your issue, but that can't really be the case because it wasn't an issue when it was still 3* cannoneers in the lineup, was it? At least, not one worth bringing up, right? No, the increase in difficulty has everything to do with the unit
It was the first thing I said when I entered this thread, and I can't compare it to "before" because I wasn't fighting manually 9 weeks ago the last time there was a crystal tournament. I started fighting manually when I started testing the spire about the middle of September.

And for the record, it's been significantly more successful since I went back to auto fighting, as I wrote earlier today. I nearly tripled my score since I returned yesterday.
 

DeletedUser20414

Guest
To be honest I didn't notice difference in losses between early rounds and later rounds. Sure lost a bit more in later rounds but nothing I didn't consider normal.

It just so happens that frogs are in this tourny and as was mentioned the tournament is now complete to where its difficulty was intended by having all units now available. We will just have to reasses our difficulty rankings of tournaments once we get used to the new units. Just wait until we get to the tournaments with more of the other new units, like rangers in the scrolls tourny :eek: or Marble for vallorian guard.

Personally I think 3 star rangers in scrolls tournament is likely to have some people in a cold sweat right now :p considering the complaints scrolls gets every time it comes around.


And what chapter are you in? What ranking are your AWs? Its says that you have been playing at least 2 years more than me. I lost entire bttles on 3 star provinces. That hasn't happened in a year for me. You aren't going to see the losses I am because of your health. You guys that are in the top 200 are not in the same boat as the rest of us. So it would be appreciated if you showed empathy instead of indirectly bragging about your situation. I know what you are going to say is that it wasn't your intent to do so. But when multiple people complain and you do this same ole same ole routine its a turn off. Its the changes coupled with attitudes such as yours is why people quit. Everybody sooner or later looks at the forum. That's a fact. I will be serious as a heart attack about this. If I had read replies like this 6 months ago on another event, then came back and got replies like this on this thread of which I started I would quit playing. I want a low stress game now. I played Mafia Wars for over 5 years and was a credit card player. Im not going back to that mentality. I will find another game before I do. So you guys want less people playing and more empty cities then keep responding like this.
 

mucksterme

Oh Wise One
And what chapter are you in? What ranking are your AWs? Its says that you have been playing at least 2 years more than me. I lost entire bttles on 3 star provinces. That hasn't happened in a year for me. You aren't going to see the losses I am because of your health. You guys that are in the top 200 are not in the same boat as the rest of us. So it would be appreciated if you showed empathy instead of indirectly bragging about your situation. I know what you are going to say is that it wasn't your intent to do so. But when multiple people complain and you do this same ole same ole routine its a turn off. Its the changes coupled with attitudes such as yours is why people quit. Everybody sooner or later looks at the forum. That's a fact. I will be serious as a heart attack about this. If I had read replies like this 6 months ago on another event, then came back and got replies like this on this thread of which I started I would quit playing. I want a low stress game now. I played Mafia Wars for over 5 years and was a credit card player. Im not going back to that mentality. I will find another game before I do. So you guys want less people playing and more empty cities then keep responding like this.

I'm sorry.
Did something upset you?
Do you need a bottle?
I read his post twice and I see no bragging.
Just because people talk about their situation being different doesn't mean they are bragging or putting you down.
This is a feedback forum.
We are talking about whether the tournament got harder.
Well, it isn't very useful feedback if only one side is allowed to talk.
btw
His reply was a "turn off"?
Just what is it you wanted from him.
Never mind, I don't want to know..

Everybody sooner or later looks at the forum. That's a fact.

No, no it really isn't.
 

DeletedUser20414

Guest
I'm sorry.
Did something upset you?
Do you need a bottle?
I read his post twice and I see no bragging.
Just because people talk about their situation being different doesn't mean they are bragging or putting you down.
This is a feedback forum.
We are talking about whether the tournament got harder.
Well, it isn't very useful feedback if only one side is allowed to talk.
btw
His reply was a "turn off"?
Just what is it you wanted from him.
Never mind, I don't want to know..



No, no it really isn't.


Do I need a bottle? I wasn't talking to you jerk. Don't come on here raising the temperature by butting in something and making remarks like that. You saying that makes you no better that what you supposedly have a disdain for. So go waddle back to your couch with your bag of potato chips. If you were in my unit and you said that to me or any of the other guys you would have got your head knocked off. Thank God for the internet huh. Where you can be brave and say things to people on it that you know you couldn't get away with in public.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Top