Deleted User - 90
Guest
It's not just the gain x goods quest - the gain supplies and gain gold quests are exploited too. The goods quest are an issue, of course, but they are not the only issue.
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Your Elvenar Team
DeletedUser43
Guest
Due to overwhelming feedback in beta, not to mention from discussions on other worlds of this thing possibly happening, they have taken this change away from beta!!!
Something will change, and they are going to tweak the system, but they won't implement the end of the declining quests! Thanks to all the voices that spoke up and wanted to keep this a fun game!!
Edit: they have brought this change back to beta.
It seems things are in flux for a while. At least it doesn't look like any major changes are going to come to the live games right away.
Something will change, and they are going to tweak the system, but they won't implement the end of the declining quests! Thanks to all the voices that spoke up and wanted to keep this a fun game!!
Edit: they have brought this change back to beta.
It seems things are in flux for a while. At least it doesn't look like any major changes are going to come to the live games right away.
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DeletedUser723
Guest
Bobbykitty, would you mind explaining the difference between flipping and nerfing to a newbie? Your responses are always helpful and clear. I've been watching your conversation on this topic here and in the beta forum for a few days, but still have that small spot of confusion about those terms.
Many thanks,
Cass
Many thanks,
Cass
Valtitude
Active Member
I chuckled when I read your post. I can't believe we're seriously using words like flipping and nerfing. lol
I didn't know the difference between the two until last week, either. The "or else" came from two players who tried to take over the fellowship to "gain #1 rank". They were players that the senior mage had previously known and trusted, which is why they were allowed into the fellowship. The two arrived on a Friday and promptly started implementing their plan to take over the fellowship. This included everyone in the fellowship flipping, and I mean that we were all to learn it ASAP. Long story, short - they were gone as quickly as they appeared - one quit early that Monday morning, the other expelled Monday evening, but not without totally disrupting a previously well-functioning and seemingly happy, friendly fellowship.
For those who don't know:
Flipping = Two people using the Trader to post and accept goods, Chat to communicate with each other. The players cycle quests until they reach a quest that gives big bonuses for coins over and over and over. This practice can give the player accepting the trades, very large rewards in coins. Close to one million coins in less than 10 minutes if they're quick. The coins are used to buy goods and knowledge points. I'm not certain if they use flipping to acquire supplies as well, but there are quests that offer supplies for coins.
Nerfing = A person is in their own city cycling quests to get bonuses for harvesting goods, supplies and coins. The figures from nerfing are no where close to what players using flipping are making. imo and that of my fellowship mates, nerfing makes the game more playable. I've been nerfing for about a week.
Nerd surfing. Love the phrase! lol
Valtitude
Active Member
I explain the differences between flipping and nerfing in my response to Wildcard999 above. It's very confusing. I didn't understand the differences until someone actually showed me both processes step by step.
I saw your post on the other topic asking the difference between flipping and nerfing - very silly words. lol
Hope my explanation helps a bit.
DeletedUser
Guest
I was just told that nerfing is taking down the power of a unit, like the difference between a football and a nerf football. I heard the Treants are supposed to be nerfed soon.
I gotta say, it makes more sense than yours. No offense.
I gotta say, it makes more sense than yours. No offense.
DeletedUser61
Guest
Nerf is actually a trademark. See http://nerf.hasbro.com/en-us/toys-games
They make foam toys of various sorts, so "nerf" has become a euphemism for anything that's a 'too safe" version of the real thing.
From http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=nerf
Used frequently in the context of computer game balance changes.
"The chaingun was awesome til they nerfed it, now you can't hit shit with it."
They make foam toys of various sorts, so "nerf" has become a euphemism for anything that's a 'too safe" version of the real thing.
From http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=nerf
Used frequently in the context of computer game balance changes.
"The chaingun was awesome til they nerfed it, now you can't hit shit with it."
DeletedUser913
Guest
Thanks for this. It can be irritating enough when jargon is used without it being misused.
DeletedUser723
Guest
So it might be nice if they nerf a few enemies in the outer provinces so I don't lose all my troops in every battle and HAVE to negotiate.
Flipping encompasses everything to do with declining quests, including alone or with an ingame ally.
Thanks
Flipping encompasses everything to do with declining quests, including alone or with an ingame ally.
Thanks
DeletedUser61
Guest
"Flipping" is a technique, as opposed to "nerfing" which you're correctly interpreting as a change of game parameters.
The folks who like City Builders ALSO like to reverse engineer algorithms, and they're notorious for finding the seams in a program, and driving it to ridiculous extremes, just to see if they can. We can expect a lot more "Oh! Looky!!! If you push this button then that button you can turn the program inside out!!"
I've provided security software for detention facilities and courthouses for a good many years, and it alarms me not at all when somebody tries to break my software. That's part of the challenge.
The folks who like City Builders ALSO like to reverse engineer algorithms, and they're notorious for finding the seams in a program, and driving it to ridiculous extremes, just to see if they can. We can expect a lot more "Oh! Looky!!! If you push this button then that button you can turn the program inside out!!"
I've provided security software for detention facilities and courthouses for a good many years, and it alarms me not at all when somebody tries to break my software. That's part of the challenge.
DeletedUser
Guest
Lol, so we can expect someone to find the dancing hippos cheat code then, huh?
DeletedUser61
Guest
Actually, I'm quite amazed that we've never found any "dancing hippo" easter eggs.
I was really disappointed, in FoE, when the bunnies left and took all of their eggs with them. I thought it was an obvious opportunity.
We could, perhaps should, have Pterodactyls flying over our cities, and all sorts of other strangeness that would spread like crazy through our established rumor mill. In Chrome, for example, if you get a "504 Website not found" page there'll be a Dinosaur. If you hit the Space Bar, you'll get a simple "hop over the obstacles game" that's interesting for about 45 seconds.
There are all sorts of possibilities in Elvenar. Maybe one of the quest rewards could be Godzilla, trotting around in the streets for an hour.
There doesn't HAVE to be a point, is the point.
I was really disappointed, in FoE, when the bunnies left and took all of their eggs with them. I thought it was an obvious opportunity.
We could, perhaps should, have Pterodactyls flying over our cities, and all sorts of other strangeness that would spread like crazy through our established rumor mill. In Chrome, for example, if you get a "504 Website not found" page there'll be a Dinosaur. If you hit the Space Bar, you'll get a simple "hop over the obstacles game" that's interesting for about 45 seconds.
There are all sorts of possibilities in Elvenar. Maybe one of the quest rewards could be Godzilla, trotting around in the streets for an hour.
There doesn't HAVE to be a point, is the point.
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DeletedUser43
Guest
Since all these words are made up....and Valtitude was talking about nerd surfing....maybe that phrase would be spelled differently than the one Kat found...how about Nurfing?
Or since this may be an Elvenar thing only....we could call it Nerd questing or Nersting? Repeatedly cycling through quests when you collect goods and supplies first thing in the morning.
Or since this may be an Elvenar thing only....we could call it Nerd questing or Nersting? Repeatedly cycling through quests when you collect goods and supplies first thing in the morning.
Valtitude
Active Member
To be fair, I think Nerd Surfing was Wildcard999's phrase on a post somewhere in all of these discussions. I thought it was very amusing.Since all these words are made up....and Valtitude was talking about nerd surfing....maybe that phrase would be spelled differently than the one Kat found...how about Nurfing?
Or since this may be an Elvenar thing only....we could call it Nerd questing or Nersting? Repeatedly cycling through quests when you collect goods and supplies first thing in the morning.
Nerfing and flipping were the distinctions I was told existed during the turmoil in our fellowship two weeks ago. Correct terminology or not, there is a distinction between the two practices. Spelling nerfing as nurfing works for me. Nersting too ... has a sting to it. Ha! Probably a dumb question, is there an Elvenar or gaming glossary somewhere for those who aren't familiar with MMORPG gaming terms and jargon? other than Wikipedia, that is.
People try to gain an advantage no matter in what or where they're competing, ie: real world - deflating footballs (whether this actually made any difference or not), performance-enhancing drugs, card counting in casinos and on and on. No surprise someone figured out a way to make a lot of virtual currency in this game.
DeletedUser
Guest
It was a guess. I couldn't think of anything else it could be. And yes, Nerd Surfing was mine and a total, made-up guess. It's not a real thing.
The Elvenar wiki page is linked on the forum main page. I have no idea if there's a glossary or not, but I'd start by looking near that or by clicking the link.
Everyone in Vegas has a system. Vegas loves systems. That's where the casinos make their money!
The Elvenar wiki page is linked on the forum main page. I have no idea if there's a glossary or not, but I'd start by looking near that or by clicking the link.
Everyone in Vegas has a system. Vegas loves systems. That's where the casinos make their money!
DeletedUser627
Guest
First, the developers haven't used an abundance of common sense to balance the game, anyway. For example, the initial development premise where boosts are determined by map placement, well, it was an obvious flaw. Boosts should be assigned once a player is established as likely to remain - assignments triggered when each boost is reached on the Knowledge Tree, and balanced according to the local neighborhood. The decision for initial auto-assignment by placement was either overly optimistic or an attempt to cut programming corners.
For me, this innate imbalance is one of the primary mandates for declining quests. First, my neighborhood was empty and I couldn't get coins. Then my neighborhood had no active members and I couldn't trade for non-boosted goods, so I had to purchase wholesale. Now, the entire game has goods imbalances. Now again my neighborhood is a desert (for 3 weeks) and without quest declining I would have no coins for anything.
Inno's statement quoted above that they "want to provide guidance and teach..." is confusing with overtones of insult. I can think of plenty of ways they could offer genuinely helpful guidance without insisting on limitation. For example, there's no little Elf/Human teacher who appears to teach us that, in the long run, Tier 1 goods are produced at 1/2 and 1/3 levels of Tiers II and III...and that the game requires double the amount of Tier I goods as Tier III goods...thus it would be wise to invest heavily in Tier I goods for the long term. There's no instruction about the best balance of residences and manufactories. No instruction about spatial planning. And even if one religiously followed every suggested quest, it still wouldn't lead us like sheep into green with perfectly balanced economies.
For me, this innate imbalance is one of the primary mandates for declining quests. First, my neighborhood was empty and I couldn't get coins. Then my neighborhood had no active members and I couldn't trade for non-boosted goods, so I had to purchase wholesale. Now, the entire game has goods imbalances. Now again my neighborhood is a desert (for 3 weeks) and without quest declining I would have no coins for anything.
Inno's statement quoted above that they "want to provide guidance and teach..." is confusing with overtones of insult. I can think of plenty of ways they could offer genuinely helpful guidance without insisting on limitation. For example, there's no little Elf/Human teacher who appears to teach us that, in the long run, Tier 1 goods are produced at 1/2 and 1/3 levels of Tiers II and III...and that the game requires double the amount of Tier I goods as Tier III goods...thus it would be wise to invest heavily in Tier I goods for the long term. There's no instruction about the best balance of residences and manufactories. No instruction about spatial planning. And even if one religiously followed every suggested quest, it still wouldn't lead us like sheep into green with perfectly balanced economies.
DeletedUser1061
Guest
Two things will get me to leave this game and that is any sort of PvP (in FoE that is NOT PvP it is PvC because no two players actually fight just one against a horribly written AI) and to do this change WITHOUT fixing what is causing people to do these quests over and over. Personally I see no problems with doing them and I have come to a point where I set my supplies, and goods, to 1 day productions then doing the 1 day RQs.
This game is boring (not because it lacks fighting each other), and dull and with a hood with barely anyone in it (one world all of the people are SE of me (W, NW, SW forget it), with some E then a HUGE vast emptiness then a few more. but barely any are playing. On that world I can't get the goods I need at all without a hellish amount of coins (especially for t3 goods). On the other world I have always been slightly better off but it is no cake walk and I have been in 3 guilds on one world and 2 on the other trying to find one that clicks to ease the pain but we are all in the same boat it seems.
This game is boring (not because it lacks fighting each other), and dull and with a hood with barely anyone in it (one world all of the people are SE of me (W, NW, SW forget it), with some E then a HUGE vast emptiness then a few more. but barely any are playing. On that world I can't get the goods I need at all without a hellish amount of coins (especially for t3 goods). On the other world I have always been slightly better off but it is no cake walk and I have been in 3 guilds on one world and 2 on the other trying to find one that clicks to ease the pain but we are all in the same boat it seems.
DeletedUser1061
Guest
I just figured that out after getting to IV in the tech tree. So, I don't have enough people or I don't have enough room but my goal is to 5,4,3 in that order of factories per tier. What I have on one world is no level 1 because I can't fight my way out of a paper bag to get the expansions but on my other world I have 2,4,3 so getting there. It is so bad on the second world I joined I am tempted to shut it down completely and just concentrate on the one world that it isn't as bad.
DeletedUser61
Guest
Also, several of the cycle quests can now be met with just one manufacturing building, rather than the previous three, so if you only need 1 or 2 buildings to keep your inventory healthy, you can tear down the rest.
I actually have MORE of the lower tier buildings, because there's more demand for the lower tier goods.
I actually have MORE of the lower tier buildings, because there's more demand for the lower tier goods.
DeletedUser627
Guest
As of today (post Dwarven release), I feel lucky for keeping my Tier 1 manufactories! The only way to score rank during this phase is via upgrading Tier 1's and workhouses (plus misc military items). But it's confusing to interpret the developers intention given the low potential population growth. For example, 750 population needed for each plank manufactory upgrade, but only 50 population per residence additional. Updating all 30 of my residences will only upgrade 2 Planks! Another way of saying the same thing, Pre-dwarven, the needed ratio of residence to plank manf was apx. 1:1 - now it's closer 2:1. And it doesn't make sense to delete one L15 in order to update two to L17, because the population scoring only increases from 7/grid to 7.5/grid.
I'd like to hear anyone else's perspective!
I'd like to hear anyone else's perspective!