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Discussion Elvarian Games discussion

OIM20

Well-Known Member
@Gladiola - you can always add an inline spoiler to cover the text. Either click on the "..." next to the smiley face above the posting space and select "inline spoiler" or type "[ I S P O I L E R ] "the text you want to hide goes here" [ / I S P O I L E R ]" - minus all of those spaces. And this is what I would look like inline. :) Anyone who wants to read it can click the blurred text.
 

Gladiola

Well-Known Member
I am still puzzled by the idea that mentioning in a genera way the types of quests that are coming up is somehow a cheat sheet. Or that with 4 quests left it matters all that much anyway. But I understand that people have very strong feelings about it.
 

CrazyWizard

Well-Known Member
If it ONLY does not exist if you keep about 5 provinces in reserve, then by clear logic it exists but only becomes a non-issue if you keep 5 provinces uncompleted. And once you use 1 or more than by your words the "Orc Wall" suddenly exists?

It is not fearmongering it is education and helping newer players to progress smartly and to avoid some pitfalls along the way.
No education is if you tell something that it's comming and how you can circumvent it. you should also lay down all the options.

The orc wall exists, but it's NOT an issue. Overschouting problems DO NOT EXIST. thats a bogus BS term.
It's never the scouting that it a problem, the scout never hits the orc wall. it;s impossible to hit an orc wall with a scout.
Completing all provinces you have scouted could make you hit the orc wall. it's never the scout thas the issue, it's completing them.
Keeping some provinces in "reserve" (read: do not immedeately complete every scouted provinces) will circumvent the issue of potentially hitting the orc wall. the issue is not and never will be scouting. overschouting does not exist.

So the term you should not overscout, if you overscout you will be stuck in events. your stuck? Hit the orc wall? thats because you overschouted.
Thats creating something out of thin air, that does not exists and creates an athmosphere in which you should really not scout to much. scouting is bad. thats fearmongering.

If you tell a player, be carefull from ring 11 you need orcs to negotiate. so make sure not to complete all provinces that do not require orcs untill you can make orcs. alsways keep some reserve so you arent stuck during an event.
Thats education!!! you inform a player of a potential difficulty and give them a solution and have them make there choice. it's not based on" if you "overschout you will die advise".
And when you do unlock orcs, you immediatly got a lot of pleasurefull provinces to your disposal because you kept scouting. all those scouted provinces that require orcs are now yours to complete. you do not have the scout them anymore.

*sidenote I have completed over 700 provinces and I still have provinces in reserve for when I am in a pinch for events. currently I got 30!!! of them. So even with a scout that takes a week I still use this practise, but I never stop my scout from scouting. not scouting is a waste of time.
 
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dikke ikke

Well-Known Member
I don't scout all the time (632 provinces at the moment), i just make sure i have between 5 and 7 provinces scouted to use for event quests, my province battles are 'yellow' and i want them back to green or even blue if possible
 

Enevhar Aldarion

Well-Known Member
@CrazyWizard don't forget that every single time a province finishes scouting, the cost and difficulty for every unscouted province goes up a little bit. While late-game players will almost never see a change, the early-game players definitely will. And will end up with red provinces that are very tough to complete. This penalty from overscouting is very real.
 

CrazyWizard

Well-Known Member
@CrazyWizard don't forget that every single time a province finishes scouting, the cost and difficulty for every unscouted province goes up a little bit. While late-game players will almost never see a change, the early-game players definitely will. And will end up with red provinces that are very tough to complete. This penalty from overscouting is very real.
Well if you want to fight you will blocked by the inability to fight the battles. in that case the whole orc wall thing is moot anyway.
The only way to reach the orc wall is with negotiation, this has always been the case, even before an orc wall existed. like 6 years ago when I started playing.

Like how it's near impossible to negotiate a large amount fo provinces in the tournament for a non cheesy low chapter player. it's impossible to unlock much more then the nessesary provinces on the world map with batteling.
Any person who played the game for a few weeks will have figured out that you cannot expand quickly with fighting. only with negotiations.
 

ed1960

Well-Known Member
@CrazyWizard don't forget that every single time a province finishes scouting, the cost and difficulty for every unscouted province goes up a little bit. While late-game players will almost never see a change, the early-game players definitely will. And will end up with red provinces that are very tough to complete. This penalty from overscouting is very real.
In case you need a picture @CrazyWizard here is a chap 2 city that has 15/25 provinces completed and 9 scouted.
veryhard.jpg
So in your world, I should send my scout out and complete the 12 "Very Hard" Provinces now, no sense in waiting and not be bothered by any ramifications, Right?

Edited to add: Even the game thinks this might not be the right move
veryhard1.jpg
 
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Gladiola

Well-Known Member
Actually scouting IS affected by the orc wall. If you scout all possible provinces but can't complete some due to the orc wall, eventually you will run out of scoutable provinces because all non-scouted provinces will be blocked by scouted and not completed provinces.

I find the passion around this discussion interesting.
 

Deborah M

Well-Known Member
I never stopped scouting except for times I simply forgot. It was never a big deal since I always had enough goods to negotiate. I do remember coming to the point I needed Orcs but didn't have them yet. I'm sure it had to be when Orcs came out. Since I negotiated everything the only problem was that I was forced to either battle or spend diamonds on the ones that needed Orcs. Again, it was no big deal. I needed the expansions and that was my priority. I was also in a top FS so growing in ranking points was a must. Back then it was an ongoing competition to get and keep Fellowships in top rankings. I guess the answer to the question of whether to keep scouting or not all depends on the players play style. If someone does not particularly care about expansions or ranking points then they may as well hold back on scouting. That is just not the way I have ever played the game. That said, I have 667 provinces completed and my scouting is now medium. I'm not even sure anymore what criteria is used to determine when they go from hard to medium. Maybe someone else knows that.
 

ed1960

Well-Known Member
Actually scouting IS affected by the orc wall. If you scout all possible provinces but can't complete some due to the orc wall, eventually you will run out of scoutable provinces because all non-scouted provinces will be blocked by scouted and not completed provinces.

I find the passion around this discussion interesting.
We have brought this up but to no avail.
 

Dew Spinner

Well-Known Member
No education is if you tell something that it's comming and how you can circumvent it. you should also lay down all the options.

The orc wall exists, but it's NOT an issue. Overschouting problems DO NOT EXIST. thats a bogus BS term.
It's never the scouting that it a problem, the scout never hits the orc wall. it;s impossible to hit an orc wall with a scout.
Completing all provinces you have scouted could make you hit the orc wall. it's never the scout thas the issue, it's completing them.
Keeping some provinces in "reserve" (read: do not immedeately complete every scouted provinces) will circumvent the issue of potentially hitting the orc wall. the issue is not and never will be scouting. overschouting does not exist.

So the term you should not overscout, if you overscout you will be stuck in events. your stuck? Hit the orc wall? thats because you overschouted.
Thats creating something out of thin air, that does not exists and creates an athmosphere in which you should really not scout to much. scouting is bad. thats fearmongering.

If you tell a player, be carefull from ring 11 you need orcs to negotiate. so make sure not to complete all provinces that do not require orcs untill you can make orcs. alsways keep some reserve so you arent stuck during an event.
Thats education!!! you inform a player of a potential difficulty and give them a solution and have them make there choice. it's not based on" if you "overschout you will die advise".
And when you do unlock orcs, you immediatly got a lot of pleasurefull provinces to your disposal because you kept scouting. all those scouted provinces that require orcs are now yours to complete. you do not have the scout them anymore.

*sidenote I have completed over 700 provinces and I still have provinces in reserve for when I am in a pinch for events. currently I got 30!!! of them. So even with a scout that takes a week I still use this practise, but I never stop my scout from scouting. not scouting is a waste of time.
But wouldn't you be paying a lot more Orcs to cater or a lot more troops to fight, seeing you are not waiting for the cost reduction of advanced scout techs? Orcs are a somewhat limited resource due to space requirements, so causing yourself to pay more of them or pay more in troops doesn't sound like a good idea for new/newer players.
 

Enevhar Aldarion

Well-Known Member
I guess a lot of old timers will have to go also!
Several of the good old timers have already quit coming here because of the influx of rude, aggressive, and abrasive people over the past year. People need to leave their Facebook and Twitter attitudes at the door when they post here. If this forum were not down a couple of mods, a lot more of what has been posted would have been moderated, and maybe some posters banned, but helya is seriously overworked and understaffed.
 

Dew Spinner

Well-Known Member
Several of the good old timers have already quit coming here because of the influx of rude, aggressive, and abrasive people over the past year. People need to leave their Facebook and Twitter attitudes at the door when they post here. If this forum were not down a couple of mods, a lot more of what has been posted would have been moderated, and maybe some posters banned, but helya is seriously overworked and understaffed.
You are conveniently forgetting about the rude, aggressive and abrasive old timers, just check your own correspondence with @Deborah M, you have said some pretty rude, aggressive and abrasive things to her. MinMax and Ashrem did not get bullied off the forum, and you have no way of knowing why the others left, On the other hand you were advocating earlier for people to bully othes off the forum. Your words are below.


Or we can just keep antagonizing the rude trolls until they all leave the forum
 
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Heymrdiedier

Active Member
In case you need a picture @CrazyWizard here is a chap 2 city that has 15/25 provinces completed and 9 scouted.
View attachment 10327
So in your world, I should send my scout out and complete the 12 "Very Hard" Provinces now, no sense in waiting and not be bothered by any ramifications, Right?

Edited to add: Even the game thinks this might not be the right move
View attachment 10329
my personal opinion, yes definatly you should keep scouting those, especially if you are in chapter 2. Your squad size will double very fast from what you have now, making those very hard provinces suddenly very easy or easy. Also in chapter 2, a few extra provinces completed give you an extra expansion, which in turn makes your city stronger and grow a lot faster too.

Just for clarity, the difficulty of a province is only determined by the cost of the scout on the moment you start your scout. Once you scouted it, the negotiation cost or amount of enemies in that province will never change anymore. Only your own squad size will go up if you research more making that same very hard scouted province, a lot easier. (the goods needed wont ever change, even if its suddenly easy, so if you are a negotiator it doesnt matter much)

If you research a improved scout tech, then of course the costs of this province will go down, and thus also the difficulty/negotiation cost. But 12k is already very cheap scout, if won't have as much impact if it only costs you 10k. (theres a bigger impact when you go from 5M scout cost to 4M tho)

But on the other hand, those scouts only cost you 30 mins, that can be very handy in an event if you get a scout quest.
 

Gladiola

Well-Known Member
I do pretty minimal scouting, and having short scout times for events is a nice side effect of that.

I think I tend to take a very long term view in terms of obtaining and placing expansions. At some point for whatever reason I will be limited in the number of expansions I can place. At the same time, the demands for space increase throughout the game with new resources like mana and sentient goods implemented as well as ever-increasing costs for population and culture. So I'm not sure if having a bigger city sooner will make a city stronger in the long run. If this were the real world and there were some sort of return on accumulation of goods (like interest on savings) then it would make sense to build bigger sooner. However, there is no return for accumulation of excess goods; there is no time value of goods that is analogous to the time value of money in the real world. Therefore all that matters is one's ability to produce enough at any given point in time to satisfy the needs of the game at that point. Especially with the new tournament and Spire battle calculations, there are strategic advantages in maintaining a smaller city.

There are items that do have a time value, in the sense that they keep pace with the inflation of demand for goods as cities grow. These are primarily spells such as MMs and instants as well as spell fragments. So any strategy that maximizes the accumulation of those items will be more effective in the long term. Thus I focus on tournament, Spire and event performance rather than how big my city is or how fast it grows. There are some people for whom fast growth and new features are compelling and interesting, and that strategy would probably not be very fun for them.
 

Deborah M

Well-Known Member
@Dew Spinner Thanks :) I can give as good as I get. Maybe someone thinks I don’t post as often because they chased me away but nothing is further from the truth. If someone who has not been around as long thinks they know more than those of us who have been around longer they are just boring. I scroll past only one person because of their attitude. That certainly doesn’t change my wanting to reply from my perspective since my play style isn’t the same as many longterm players on the forum. I have posted less lately only because of RL & boredom with some aspects of the game.