Fellowship Adventure - Fellowship Badge Pools; instead of individual badge pools

[Dominionofgod]

Boy, that would help me tremendously. I have a thread for all those who can't/won't use the FA spreadsheet. They report the badges to the thread and then I put them in the spreadsheet for them. This would really cut down on my workload and make life so much easier for everyone in the group, because seeing what badges are desperately needed is a perfect way for the group to coordinate their efforts.

And boy dont i know it. You mentioned having a special thread for ppl to post badges to and you yourself would put them into the spreedsheet... Thats the default for us lol. Every (is supposed to) post to a thread, and ill add all of them to the spreedsheet myself. All just to try and make it easier on them. So yea... i can imagine the serenity lol.
But it is a good example as well... the more pain in the ass (or inconvenience) a task is.. the more ppl stop bothering doing it. Thus reducing activity level. So UI improvements are a big boost!

 

[samidodamage]

@Dominionofgod
In no way did I mean to imply I would vote against the idea as presented. I will vote for it as I'd like it to be seen by the devs. I'm concerned that it will be rejected in its current form by the bean counters.
I'm retired now, but managed businesses in a couple different industries and learned to try to anticipate the bean counters' objections to innovation and address them up front; that's all I was trying to do here. I'm pretty sure the FA's would not have been tied to events through evolving bldg artifacts and increased in frequency if they were not serious revenue generators with their current structure. Bean counters are notorious for trying to maintain the status quo when something is 'working' in their view.
Yes, they appreciate a steady supply of revenue due to happy customers. They'll even dedicate some resources to improvements that will increase customer satisfaction for UI and other QOL improvements like the 'start all' feature, the resources overhall on the top UI bar and the badge collection UI. That's very different than a change that impacts the time frame for what may be the most concentrated expenditure of premium currency in the game.
I don't think they anticipated the huge spike in player participation that happened with the implementation of the badge collection UI. That was pretty clear when they allowed it to end on a weekend, had to call in staff to try to patch things up and hobble through to the end. Then they had to figure out how to handle it better in the future. I think it's going to take concrete answers to their questions to convince them it's a good idea to reduce the number of players who have to be online in the final hours of an FA for an FS who's interested in ranking to do well. Those FS's will fill an unlimited pool early in the FA, and continue to fill it as long as they can. It won't matter if someone has a real life issue that prevents them from being active in the final hours; they'll have their badges and won't have to figure out how to replace them. That's where I think the micro-transactions are seen in way larger numbers than many of us would believe possible. A few diamonds here or there to push through a production, flip crafting recipes one time, or whatever doesn't seem like much. With Inno's industry acclaimed metrics, they know how many thousands of players globally are spending those diamonds and when. It's going to be a hard sell to get them to do what they may consider to be putting that revenue in jeopardy.

 

[Dominionofgod]

@Dominionofgod
In no way did I mean to imply I would vote against the idea as presented. I will vote for it as I'd like it to be seen by the devs. I'm concerned that it will be rejected in its current form by the bean counters.

I understand what you meant. And i appreciate the feedback. I was jsut trying to provide a counter-thought to it.

I don't think they anticipated the huge spike in player participation that happened with the implementation of the badge collection UI.

All the more reason they should continue UI improvements

. I think it's going to take concrete answers to their questions to convince them it's a good idea to reduce the number of players who have to be online in the final hours of an FA for an FS who's interested in ranking to do well.

Well the idea doesn't change the fact that you have to be on to collect badges. Players that are rly into points and ranking would that are able to be on, would still get on. A fs badge pool doesnt mean they would just log off be gone. Theyde still have to be on to check progress, finish badges, and all the stuff they normally would. It does not in anyway make it better to be logged off.
What it would do is encourage the players that cant be logged in at the end.. to continue participating up until there last log in. - If i know i cant use my badges the last day because ill be at work.. then not only is that time lost for that player, but im not going to bother making some badges the day before either. Because i wont be on later to use them. So its a double hit of inactivity. The Fs badge pool mean that player can keep making badges up until he has to go. And he can feel good about doing it because he knows the fs will be able to use them.

As for the diamond aspect of it when players are rushing at the end of the event to try and snag that higher rank... i dont see this changing at all.
The benefit of the FS badge pool, the potential increased activity in the evnet, and the potential higher scores... effect all fs across the board. So the two fs's that were fighting for rank in the individual badge pool are both going to have the same benefit form the fs badge pool. They will both get higher points, but they will still both be the same neck and neck as before. Its the same position, just at a different number. If they are at 30,000 and 29800... or its increased to 35,000 and 34,800... its still the same point gap even thos its at a higher bracket. So that wouldnt change. If they were going to spend money to help before, then they are in the same situation and still likely to spend the same after the change.


But as for rewording the idea to illistrate everything better before a poll... I think thats going to be a huge challenge. - Look at my OP and all my responces... they are very long in an attempt to fully explain each aspect the best i can. And i heard they only forward the first post to the devs if its approved... which is a problem because they have a 10,000 character limit.. (or at least the replies have a 10k limit. Im not sure about the OP, but it would be a logical assumption.) Im not sure about being able to fit a full explanation of all aspects in only 10k characters.

 

[Dominionofgod]

But as for rewording the idea to illistrate everything better before a poll... I think thats going to be a huge challenge. - Look at my OP and all my responces... they are very long in an attempt to fully explain each aspect the best i can. And i heard they only forward the first post to the devs if its approved... which is a problem because they have a 10,000 character limit.. (or at least the replies have a 10k limit. Im not sure about the OP, but it would be a logical assumption.) Im not sure about being able to fit a full explanation of all aspects in only 10k characters.

@Xelenia Can you confirm or deny this?? Can it only be the first post forwarded (if approved) no matter what? And does the OP have the same 10k character limit? - I have a feeling trying to truely and thurough go through all this will well exceed a single 10k post.

 

[Veesviewpoint]

It can be done...focus on the main concepts, how to present each one, address the potential pros and cons, mechanics of implementing the idea and it's goal/rewards to Team mates and Inno. It is alot to communicate, but the concept(s) once absorbed will most likely become clear and prove to enjoyable and rewarding to all.

 

[Dominionofgod]

It is alot to communicate, but the concept(s) once absorbed will most likely become clear and prove to enjoyable and rewarding to all.

yea, ppl are often resistant to change. Even when its in there benefit.
Interestingly, it was the FA that helped me make one of those changes to my FS a long time back.
It was shortly after i got there and they had some goofy kp swap system. I honestly dont even recall what it was anymore. Been a long time. But i remember thinking it was bulky, clumsy, and not very effective.
So i tried to sell them on the idea os a KP chain thread. (those who use it know how simple it is.) But trying to explain it to ppl in a block of text can be problematic. So they pretty much all said no thanks to my idea.
But that KP badge in the FA gave me an opening. As they were trying to figure out the best way to do this, because there system was not compatible for it. So i got them to try what was actually a 'kp chain' in the amount of 10 kp. Just for the Fa

Once they actually saw how it worked and used it.. .we never went back. - And to beat a dead.. point again.. the kp chain provided a system that was much more simplistic, stress free, and no pressure. At the same time, accomplishing the original goal. *wink*
Since then weve had more ppl join in, and weve expanded it to four different threads (different amount in each thread). And its still going great after a couple years.

So iv sited many different exampls of how simplicity and less stress become so beneficial and actually improve so much more then meets the eye!!

But yea.. reformatting everything and keeping it in a 10k limit will be a big challenge..

ya know.. i never had this problem in school... Give me some report to do on some boring thing. One paragraph in... im done'
Give me a topic on a game i care about and suddenly it becomes 'what do you i onyl get 5 pages!?!?! i can not operate under these kinds of restrictions!!!!!' lol

 

[Veesviewpoint]

The kp thread is an icon...hoping we will be able it to add to our fellowship soon!
The way I've seen SoggyShorts and others do this...do like you have done here...answer each inquiry/clearly and completly as possible. Use that imput as your number 1, number 2 etc. Once you and others feel all questions, rebuttals have been spoken/addressed...
then retype, have some folks help to clarify and stream line...retype it again...and present it forward to Inno.

It's an awesome concept...once it is outlined...hope begins to take feet and wings...then Magic occurs once again.
You can do this too! V's

 

[Fiona Selah]

This is an excellent idea! I'm fairly new to the game, now have 2 FA's under my belt (Yes, I know y'all are applauding and giving me a standing ovation ). Anyhow, I believe this will get newer players/newer fellowships involved at a greater level because they won't be as overwhelmed pinning down the best way to proceed in an FA. It would definitely streamline it.

I don't know if someone already mentioned the issue of FS members having to contribute at least one badge in a stage to get rewards, so something would need to be in place so that whoever is managing the Badge Pool doesn't accidentally miss any member's donation and so all participate.


.....now if we could get that and a big boost in FA rewards I would be a very happy camper!

 

[The Fairy]

Something similar was suggested in the beta forum some time ago and forwarded to the developers:

https://beta.forum.elvenar.com/index.php?threads/fellowship-adventure-badge-pool.13890/

 

[Veesviewpoint]

Wow, went to the site...it had an 82% favor...then nothing? What happened? Was it forwarded?
This version seems more clear in it's "rough draft". That attempt was in 2019. Definitely need to find out what the developers had to say back in 2019. Anybody? Thanks "The Fairy". V's

 

[The Fairy]

I have always wanted to see a fellowship badge count included as an in-game feature of the FAs. This would greatly reduce the nitty gritty stuff of tracking/reporting badges that so many players find unpleasant, and which then falls to one or two members to take on. Then every fellow could check in-game to see which badges most need making and have a way of instantly seeing how their contribution and efforts are helping.

I really like @AtaguS idea here. I think this would be simple to implement and help a lot! I play in different fellowships, some going for the #3 buildings, some struggling to do a single path. Personally I don't see a big need to only have a few players donate the badges to the path. And yes, sometimes there are misplaced badges, but I don't see that as a big problem but as path of the game - we need to work together, which is what I really like about the FA. But AtaguS' suggestion would remove a lot of the tedious part of the coordination without taking away everything. Those who have the badges still need to turn up and donate them when needed.

 

[samidodamage]

@Veesviewpoint
This forum section is managed differently on beta forums and has always had a formal path to the devs. They don't have a 'forwarded' section and don't tend to use the thread titles like our mods do. Our forum did not have any formal path until March 2020 when the one outlined in the Forum Guide for Ideas/Suggestions was worked out with the devs. On beta, the community manager posted in that thread here. So you don't have to follow the link, the post said:
Hi everyone,

This idea has been forwarded now, thank you for voting!

 

[Grid Gypsy]

Bringing this back up because I just had two fellowship members wish for it. Both work, one of them extremely long hours, and the 2nd especially is missing out on placing badges because they are only able to be on a couple of times a day.

 

[ajqtrz]

Ideal situation in the FA is to have a player want a badge that isn't available, to feel they need it now, and to spend diamonds to get it. It is far more likely a needed badge will be available if the badges are pooled, than if they are not. Thus, the desire for that particular badge which drives diamond spending, has to be maintained to maintain the revenues. Pooling badges would lessen that perceived need, and thus lower revenues -- bad, bad, bad. Not going to happen.

(Though I wish it would).

AJ

 

[Grid Gypsy]

Ideal situation in the FA is to have a player want a badge that isn't available, to feel they need it now, and to spend diamonds to get it. It is far more likely a needed badge will be available if the badges are pooled, than if they are not. Thus, the desire for that particular badge which drives diamond spending, has to be maintained to maintain the revenues. Pooling badges would lessen that perceived need, and thus lower revenues -- bad, bad, bad. Not going to happen.

(Though I wish it would).

AJ

I've said it before and I'll keep saying it until I either leave or the devs catch a clue; best way to get me to NOT spend money on diamonds? Trying to force me to spend money on diamonds. They'd do sooooo much better by trying something like expanding the cash shop to include custom avatars and city artwork. By not providing a way for those with demanding jobs to contribute they just alienate them and gamble on whether or not they'll even stick around.

 

[ajqtrz]

I've said it before and I'll keep saying it until I either leave or the devs catch a clue; best way to get me to NOT spend money on diamonds? Trying to force me to spend money on diamonds. They'd do sooooo much better by trying something like expanding the cash shop to include custom avatars and city artwork. By not providing a way for those with demanding jobs to contribute they just alienate them and gamble on whether or not they'll even stick around.

I agree to a point. "Sales resistance" is a normal reaction to feeling like somebody is pressuring you to make a purchase. It would look like that to the average player if, when you need just one more badge to make the next way-point, something popped up pushing you to make that purchase and "not let your team down" or some other emotional appeal. But the emotion that drives such transactions is within the person playing and the game is designed to trigger that emotion without any overt "pushy" attempt. The purchase button just sits there quietly reminding you, and your own emotional state may drive you to push it. Thus, most people aren't forced to spend, the game is just designed to encourage them to do so by putting them in emotionally driven situations. At that point it's the emotional state of the player that "forces" them so spend diamonds.

AJ

 

[Grid Gypsy]

I agree to a point. "Sales resistance" is a normal reaction to feeling like somebody is pressuring you to make a purchase. It would look like that to the average player if, when you need just one more badge to make the next way-point, something popped up pushing you to make that purchase and "not let your team down" or some other emotional appeal. But the emotion that drives such transactions is within the person playing and the game is designed to trigger that emotion without any overt "pushy" attempt. The purchase button just sits there quietly reminding you, and your own emotional state may drive you to push it. Thus, most people aren't forced to spend, the game is just designed to encourage them to do so by putting them in emotionally driven situations. At that point it's the emotional state of the player that "forces" them so spend diamonds.

AJ

To me such pop ups aren't an example of trying to force your customers to purchase, they're just predatory advertising. "Fixing" an event so that without diamonds you're pretty unlikely to get the final piece out of a 7 piece set is. My point is that helping their working players would also help retention and thus boost their sales, more people=more sales. Adding things that people actually wanted, besides diamonds, would only be icing.