Fellowship Adventure push cities?

[Deborah M]

I keep thinking about this and would like to know who said FA push cities are OK. It seems to be no different than any other push cities from what I can tell. I know that is not going to be a popular opinion on the Forum but this really bothers me. The original versions of push accounts that I ever saw were all about Ranking. I completely agree that it is crazy to have multiple fellowships just to feed KP to a main city to excel in the rankings. That has to take an insane amount of time. Now the AW trades limitations have already addressed that. I am talking about both individual rankings and Fellowship rankings. I have seen a combination of those 2 goals in top Fellowships since day 1. Believe me, it does encourage comradery when the Fellowship is pulling together to grow to higher rankings. On this Forum, I have heard over & over that rankings don't matter. In my experience that is absolutely not true. So, how are FA push cities any different? Isn't that just another version of rankings? Nobody is getting anything all that great from top FA scores. It is entirely driven by bragging rights. So why are FA bragging rights treated like some sacred cow? I have played this game with players that I considered my 'imaginary' game friends who are no longer with us and it is my sincere belief that is because of their push accounts. I may not approve of their approach either but that doesn't change the fact that I miss some of them. The other thing that bothers me is that these FA push cities are not good for Elvenar's bottom line. Frankly, neither was chasing away top ranked big spenders. These FA push cities make it so that there is no reason I can imagine for anybody to spend a dime on the FAs when all they have to do is build free baby push cities.

@-Solaris- and/or @Astram I really do want to know if these FA push cities are officially OK. If so, I have a couple of FA push cities I need to get started on if I ever want to be competitive in the FA.

Adding just for clarity. I jokingly refer to all "friends" in games as imaginary friends. Technically, I really don't know what players are like in real life.

 

[Genefer]

Th terms of agreement - clearly state Cleary state - players are prohibited from having multiple cities on the same world - which can be for no other purpose than to feed one with the other - every single player that checked the terms of agreement box to play this game agreed not to create multiple cities within the same world.


They are most definitely push accounts - and they definitely decrease the opportunities for selling diamonds, troop, & badge offers.


And they most certainly effect the map.

 

[Deborah M]

Thanks @Genefer I do want to point out that you are referring to Inno Games general TOS. The Elvenar specific TOS does explicitly allow multiple cities on the same world so long as they are not used as push cities.

I am just trying to not get into that debate again. There is already a very recent conversation where that was clarified and there is also a post in Announcements clarifying that multiple cities are OK in Elvenar even though they are not allowed in at least some of Inno Games other games.

 

[quin629]

I believe Anonglitch had given us the official answer the last time the issue came up, but Helya had answered the same in previous years: you are using the word "push" differently than Inno does in Elvenar. In Elvenar, a "push" city is only one that engages in a repeated or sustained lopsided transfer of KPs or tradeable goods to another city.

Anything a city makes in an FA to produce badges is not the same as giving the production items directly to another single player. Benefitting a FS is not illegal "pushing". Only dumping KP into one player's AWs without return and/or endless zero-star trades are "pushing".

 

[Genefer]

The Elvenar specific TOS does explicitly allow multiple cities

So where is the Elvenar Specific Terms of Agreement?


"Anything a city makes in an FA to produce badges is not the same as giving the production items directly to another single player. Benefitting a FS is not illegal "pushing". Only dumping KP into one player's AWs without return and/or endless zero-star trades are "pushing".


The definition of push accounts I found in the forum stated tradable goods, kp, etc.....

First - Badges are produced - there is a recipe for each badge.

A city with the singular purpose of producing badges to progress the FA allows every participating member of the FS to acquire Artifacts, Time Spells, KP, buildings.... with badges acquired outside of normal play undermining the ability for Innogames to sell product


You truly believe this does not fall under etc.?

What do you think etc. is referring to?

 

[Deborah M]

@Genefer I'm pretty sure that you and I are saying the same thing. The only caveat is that in Elvenar you can have multiple cities as long as the primary purpose of those cities is not just to benefit your main city.

 

[Genefer]

Why is city built with the purpose pushing tradable goods and kp to their real city - or someone else's city is disallowed?


No one actually believes this is prohibited because it is unfair to other players - right?

 

[Deborah M]

Why is city built with the purpose pushing tradable goods and kp to their real city - or someone else's city is disallowed?

As far as I can tell the only advantage is that you climb in ranking faster because you gain a ton of AW levels and/or progress through the game faster. That is why I am questioning whether inflated FA scores are not in essence the same.

 

[quin629]

I believe the emphasis in the definition of push is not that it is based on something that is produced. The emphasis is on giving the produced item directly to one other city (whether your own or someone else's) in a consistently lopsided or unfair manner so as to give that other city an advantage. FA badges are not given to one specific city as a profit or unfair advantage to that specific city. Advancing the FS as a whole is not pushing one single city.

During an FA all participating cities produce badges that will hopefully allow every member of the FS to acquire various rewards. Same as every participating city in a tournament helps all participating cities in the tournament get rewards. And the same for the spire.

I do not know why "push" cities are not allowed. I just know that an FA optimized city is not against Elvenar rules, no matter whether it is a second account for a player or their only city, and no matter whether they only play during FAs or they play 24/7.

 

[Iyapo]

@Deborah M

I object to your premise.

who said FA push cities are OK

Who said FA cities are push cities?

Players who love the FA are allowed to play their cities however and whenever they choose to do so. Calling it a push city does not make it so.

 

[Genefer]

And - with a total of 8 worlds to build a city with - what purpose can there be in having 2 cities on the same world if not to benefit one with the other?

 

[Deborah M]

I guess I am going to have to be blunt here. I used to spend real $$ on the FA. So long as I know that other players are allowed to create cities to inflate the rankings in the FA, I see no reason to ever spend another dime. It is just that simple. Push accounts in the traditional sense would have also helped raise the ranking of the entire FS. I just think it should be consistent. Even if I was to decide to make a FA only city, I sure as heck want to know that it is officially OK and not just a matter of opinion from those who already do the FA this way.

 

[Deborah M]

@Deborah M

I object to your premise.

Who said FA cities are push cities?

Players who love the FA are allowed to play their cities however and whenever they choose to do so. Calling it a push city does not make it so.

I completely understand your and apparently many others opinion on this. I just see an inconsistency that bothers me primarily because of players who are now gone who had the original version of push cities. If you all think their scores didn't help the FS you are very mistaken.

Like I said from the beginning, I want to know for sure so that I can weigh whether or not to build a couple of FA push cities. I have room in my FS so why not if it is officially OK?

I also want to add that it would be great not to have to take my big city apart and waste teleport spells if I want to really participate in the FA. Doing the FA with a small FA city would be a whole other easier game event and free on top of that..

 

[Iyapo]

Spending money in Elvenar saves you nothing but time, players who are willing to spend time can do very well without spending money.

Inno could absolutely decide to change that. They could squeeze out all the ftp players and make it impossible for them to compete in any category.

But if they do that we won't have many people to play with.

 

[Genefer]

As far as I can tell the only advantage is that you climb in ranking faster because you gain a ton of AW levels and/or progress through the game faster. That is why I am questioning whether inflated FA scores are not in essence the same.

I have no idea the amount of money I have spent on diamonds that were used to eliminate production time - prior to figuring out the wholesaler.... Why would I waste money on this? Spire, Tournament, Upgrades - I am a very impatient person.

A player that creates a city to produce goods to funnel to their other city will not be tempted to purchase diamonds.


Every Ancient Wonder built and upgraded increases the city's production minimizing or flat eliminating those players - like me - that are impatient and want to climb the Spire and a lot of Tournament, upgrade buildings... from needing to continue to purchase diamonds to spend on eliminating production time.



Funneling kp/runes to your real city to upgrade ancient wonders quickly- reduces the motivation or need for players to purchase diamonds.


Doesn't matter who climbs the rank in tournaments, how quickly someone can increase their score (there are 3 Ancient Wonders that literally increase Rank points) .... the only motivation is because gaming the system causes a loss of potential opportunities for Innogames to sell their products.


Just like creating an alternative account to funnel badges into the FA - creates a loss of potential sell opportunities for Innogames to sell their products.

It is about making money - not anyone's feelings of unfairness - this is a game that until a couple weeks ago solely relied on the hope that the players of this game will purchase diamonds, buildings - including the stash outpost, -league passes, and troop, resource, badge, & event currency offers.

 

[Genefer]

free on top of that..

Exactly!

 

[Deborah M]

Spending money in Elvenar saves you nothing but time, players who are willing to spend time can do very well without spending money.

Inno could absolutely decide to change that. They could squeeze out all the ftp players and make it impossible for them to compete in any category.

But if they do that we won't have many people to play with.

That is pretty darn extreme. I have spent years trying to help newer cities. I know for a fact that many along the way have been FTP players. That does not mean that I see much left worth advising spending $ on since the game has swung completely toward almost all players seeming to be FTP

 

[Genefer]

Oh - and diamonds to crate MM enchantments when I didn't have enough for all my factories.

Perspective
44 Diamonds to finish an MM Enchantment - 10 MMs - 440 diamonds.
26 diamonds to finish a 3hr factory production - 10 productions - 260 diamonds.

Of course, I am far more likely to Spend diamonds in the Spire if I struggle for Goods - 25 diamonds ....

If I have an alternative city to produce Goods - why would I have wasted money to acquire and conserve my goods?

It is about Money

 

[Genefer]

players seeming to be FTP

Yes, SEEMING

 

[Genefer]

Let's not forget purchasing premium expansions - to build more factories...

Money

So tradable goods, kp/runes and etc.