Few People post any longer

[DeletedUser3220]

I have noticed that fewer and fewer people post in the forum. That is really sad. I do not go into the suggestion tab any more as I don't even want to see anyone's suggestions/ideas. I would get my hopes up for nothing. When I first joined the forum, there was lively discussion everywhere, it was difficult to keep up with everyone and everything. My email dinged it's little self to pieces announcing all the posts. Now, a day may go by with one or two posts. I can't blame anyone. Well I can, but, they could care less what we think so no need to exert the energy. For those new to the forum, please know, this is not the normal way for a forum to be. Sadly the players are all frustrated, saddened, angry, and confused. We feel betrayed by Inno. The game we fell in love with is no longer, and our concerns are ignored. No need to give feedback. We have been told that feedback is taken into consideration in the Beta version, not here. No need to make suggestions. They are ignored. No need to complain about the game, Inno does not care what we think. It is sad, truly truly sad that such a wonderful game is being flushed down the toilet.

I didn't mind spending a little money on diamonds here and there when I had plenty. This game use to be so much fun. Getting to meet others from around the world was just a big bonus. I've made my first city over a year ago and have been playing most everyday. I have told many others about this world. Now I regret say anything good about it. If enough of us small time paying players quit, and spread the word as to how bad this game has become, I would like to think the developers would have to listen. I could be dreaming!

 

[DeletedUser3468]

I am perceiving this story because this IS the story. No one created this back story except the devs. The only reason more people aren't upset about it is because so few read the wiki.

As I've said repeatedly, I'm still at a low level so I haven't reached this part of the story yet. I wasn't aware of it until posting on this thread. Like you, I find it very offensive Bobbykitty and also find it inexplicable why the devs are unwilling to change the storyline to something less offensive to so many people.

Malfiore, as for your reply to my comment about how most who are offended by this type of storyline won't bother to come to the forum to complain, they will simply leave,

Or keep playing the game, depending on how you look at it. Always assume that the happy customers are a lot more than the disappointed ones

Why in the world would I assume that they will keep playing the game? Why should I assume that the majority of players would be happy with a story line that includes our having to enslave another race or find it to be inoffensive? What type of people are you assuming make up the majority of the players? I still remember the criticism that Dark Age of Camelot took simply because in one area we had to kill digital wolf cubs and bear cubs! Isn't slavery and being made to participate in slavery as a component of this game much more offensive? After all, why would "killing" a digital image labeled as a "wolf cub" be offensive? It's not as if it's an actual living creature. It was the principle of having to kill a baby animal that people were offended by. It's the principle of slavery in any form, the simple idea of it being included as something that is an acceptable thing to do that is so offensive. It is as if the game is condoning something so totally reprehensible that is offensive.

 

[DeletedUser594]

You wouldn't necessarily know any of the story even if you were in Orc age. I doubt most players know unless they are active forums members. Once you enter Orc age it's like any other- you try and figure out what needs to be produced and start making stuff. The storyline is in the wiki . I doubt the majority use the wiki and those that do would have to first read the story line (I don't).

 

[DeletedUser3942]

I am just at the beginning of chapter IV but reading all this I am a lot less excited to move further on in the game.
I noticed that the buildings in Orc Age are not very attractive to me but haven't read far enough in the story line yet to notice all the less amusing things that come along the storyline with the Orcs, to put it mildly.

 

[DeletedUser3575]

Maybe we can find them some underwear too.

YESSSSSSSS I love when people get the reference!

 

[DeletedUser4195]

Well bless your heart... you just slammed me every which way till Sunday and know nothing about me. smiles. First. I do give help to newbies. all the time. So do most of the other long term forum members. Mykan and Varron have posted some incredible help for newbies that I could not hope to produce as i do not have the talent it takes. I help out in my fellowships in several ways. Just to point out... those of us who have been playing the game for a while.... have seen it go downhill, have seen the game we began change into something that is just not fun. However we have put so much time, effort, and some of us money into the game we keep hoping for something good to finally happen. i am not jaded. I am not a whiner. I am not usually a complainer. However, I do complain when players get jerked around by the game owners. And I think I have a right to do so. My suggestion to you, read the forums, all of them... spend some time on them and learn who the members are. Read the guides that have been produced, HEAR the problems players have encountered, then post a slam on me. smiles. It won't hurt me a bit for you to do so.

I'm sorry. As I read and learn...I learn. You're sweet, you could have unloaded both barrels at me, and rightfully so. I apologize.

 

[DeletedUser3312]

I'm sorry. As I read and learn...I learn. You're sweet, you could have unloaded both barrels at me, and rightfully so. I apologize.

Smiles.. no problem there is some really incredible information available here on the forum. And some good people I think you will enjoy getting to know. Also Bobbykitty and Kaylee girl have produced great pieces of informational guides. I wish more people joined the forum so they would benefit from all the teaching guides members very produced. Glad you are here! Invite others.

 

[DeletedUser43]

I love when people get the reference!

It is one of my favorite references! I use it ALL the time.

 

[DeletedUser486]

Once someone realizes the parallels to some exceedingly disturbing history (intended or not), then change it! OMG. It isn't that hard. And it is SO offensive.

It's unnecessary. That's the whole point. In a game with thounsands of active players, the opinions of 10 are meaningless. And as you criticize InnoGames for brazenly introducing such concepts into the game, one might criticize you for brazenly dictating what the moral code among players should be. If the only ground for your complaints of this nature is the public forum, and you are among the select few who share the same opinion, then that opinion, de facto, does not represent what the playerbase wants from the game, and your contribution is in fact more harmful to the integrity of the community than beneficial.

Slavery: using the labor of another against their will. Slavery, bondage, servitude refer to involuntary subjection to another or others. Slavery emphasizes the idea of control by a master.

Drug: substance which has a physiological effect when ingested or otherwise introduced into the body.

psycho-: indicating the mind or psychological or mental processes

Experimenting on beings: well...let's say....experimenting on beings.

I don't believe there was ever a question among the participants of this conversation that one of us was unaware of these terms.

If one in a million was bothered by that I would change it.

That's the wrong approach if you want to be a game developer. The game must be dictated by you, not your playerbase. Dictated meaning, of course, the general direction that game is supposed to take. The playerbase tends to be ignorant when it comes to game balance and utility and that is a given across all games, which is why, in the grand scheme of things, only so few of the communities' ideas and suggestions are implemented.

Why in the world would I assume that they will keep playing the game? Why should I assume that the majority of players would be happy with a story line that includes our having to enslave another race or find it to be inoffensive?

Because if they weren't happy with it, the company would be pressured a lot more to change said concepts. If there has been no change, there has been no actual problem. I explained what an actual problem is for an online game in a previous post.

Online games are typically designed to give the users incentives to keep playing the game. Currently these incentives are far greater than how one perceives the game's lore. It's that simple. If the time ever comes that this proves to be an actual concern within the community, then I'm sure InnoGames will make the necessary adjustments.

 

[DeletedUser43]

the opinions of 10 are meaningless.

one might criticize you for brazenly dictating what the moral code among players should be. If the only ground for your complaints of this nature is the public forum, and you are among the select few who share the same opinion, then that opinion, de facto, does not represent what the playerbase wants from the game, and your contribution is in fact more harmful to the integrity of the community than beneficial.

I, and others, have tried our best to explain to you that having a story line that celebrates slavery and drug use and experimentation on other beings is offensive. You seem incapable of getting that. You are seriously saying that the player base WANTS to be slave masters who support Nazi-like experiments on beings? That trying to stop a story line like that is harmful to the "integrity" of the community? What kind of community do you envision?

Instead of making Elvenar a better place and a better game, all you seem to want to do is attack people. So much so that you are now espousing idiotic positions. Enjoy your little game. I am done playing. This may be the exact reason why so few people bother with the forums.


You are attacking my "moral code" that is against slavery???

*walks away muttering....attacking people for daring to complain about slavery.....omg...people are batshoot crazy.

 

[SoggyShorts]

I dunno Bobbykitty, I enjoy almost all of your posts, but I can't seem to agree with you on finding the orc story line offensive.
This is a fantasy based game, and usually in a fantasy setting orcs and goblins are pretty evil. I'm sure we can all agree that slavery is in the top 5 evil things a sentient being can do to another, but that's kinda my point. One could argue that there is FAR more combat in this game than stories of slavery, and killing other sentient beings just to collect some relics and clear out a province is pretty evil too, no? I mean who are we to decide that some "unknown savages and shady characters" should be slaughtered. I'm all for being politically correct in real life, but I don't think I could ever be offended by a theme in a video game.
Wanna hear a joke that doesn't offend anyone?
"A person and a person go to a place, and a thing happens."

 

[DeletedUser486]

I, and others, have tried our best to explain to you that having a story line that celebrates slavery and drug use and experimentation on other beings is offensive.

The storyline celebrates such concepts in your opinion. I, and many others, presume it as simply the environment and different mechanics of an online game. Who doesn't like a little bit of lore here and there? I can understand that you find it offensive. Can you understand that as long as a maximum of 10 people share the same opinion among the thousands, their opinion is not representative of the sum? You find it offensive, some others don't. As long as the others are more than you, there is no actual reason to make changes in the lore. It's that simple.

You are seriously saying that the player base WANTS to be slave masters who support Nazi-like experiments on beings?

No, I want the playerbase to be free to choose between being overly-sensitive towards an online game, or being indifferent/happy towards its lore. I've mentioned time and time again that your opinion represents the vocal minority, and more specifically, the minority within said minority. As long as that remains a fact, you're merely trying to give the game the shape that better fits your personal moral code. By that sense, you're currently doing more harm than good.

You're not representing dissatisfied players, you're representing yourself, in what you believe to be offensive and inappropriate in an online game.

 

[DeletedUser43]

The point is that some people ARE offended. And it is easy NOT to offend them. Since it is easy NOT to offend them, then don't offend them. Or offend the heck out of some people. Those are the choices. They chose to keep offending people. That means that some people will quit this game over a stupid and unimportant story. People have quit this game over it. You are making others unhappy because of this story. You sure aren't gaining players over the story.

Why would you support anything that loses us players or make people unhappy?

Sure, you can say to heck with them all and show them the door....but why do that? You can say they are stupid for being offended, but that won't make them feel any better. You can say that they have no right to even bring up the subject, but how does that help the game? How does attacking anyone for how they feel about this help make this game better? We are talking about some stupid words in the wiki for cripes sake. Not the entire game structure....some words.

 

[DeletedUser3468]

Because if they weren't happy with it, the company would be pressured a lot more to change said concepts. If there has been no change, there has been no actual problem.

This is just a restating of your opinion. It is not an answer to my question of why should I assume people are not offended by the inclusion of slavery in this game. Further, why should I assume, that being offended, they will come to the forum and state "I am offended by this and if it doesn't change I will leave." Past experience in other games where people were offended either by story line or by items many found sexually suggestive in design, has shown me that many players will simply leave. How do I know they are leaving for these reasons? I know because, while they didn't come to the games forum to complain, they did complain on facebook and on other forms of social media about these things.

You are entitled to your opinion but you seeming don't feel that I am entitled to disagree with it. Now, I have had enough of this circular argument you are insisting on perpetuating and will not be replying further to you. There is no point in wasting my time trying to explain my position and opinion over and over simply to have you restate your opinion. We disagree and will probably never come to an agreement about this subject. End of discussion.

 

[DeletedUser486]

The point is that some people ARE offended. And it is easy NOT to offend them. Since it is easy NOT to offend them, then don't offend them.

People will always find something to be offended by. It's one of the many vicious circles of life. Instead of catering to the needs of select people within the gaming community, you entrust them with the choice of either being overly-sensitive or indiffrent to/happy with the product. The very moment you start listening to every bit of advice given by the players, you hand over control of your game, and that is a fact. As a developer, you simply cannot allow that to happen. If some people are offended by the concept and leave, then that's fine. They are identical to those who don't enjoy the end product and decide to do something else. Someone else will take their place.

Further, why should I assume, that being offended, they will come to the forum and state "I am offended by this and if it doesn't change I will leave."

Υou wrongly assume that the forum is the only medium through which you can express dissatisfaction with the game, then. All forms of social media regarding the game are monitored, and I assure you apparent cases of extreme dissatisfaction across the community are immediately reported.

It is not an answer to my question of why should I assume people are not offended by the inclusion of slavery in this game.

Because I'm not offended by having orcs used as a resource in an online game. It's a game, featuring imaginary species. Are you also offended by the fact that you're virtually playing the hand of God, relentlessly demanding from your workers to produce goods and incessantly build, or should we draw the parallel between Elvenar and imperialism, and all the negative repercussions that entails?

The point is, if I want to find something offensive, then in the end I will. Which is why I view this entire argument as a side point initially made by those who were unhappy with the original direction of the game, and little more.

 

[DeletedUser3696]

I am just at the beginning of chapter IV but reading all this I am a lot less excited to move further on in the game.
I noticed that the buildings in Orc Age are not very attractive to me but haven't read far enough in the story line yet to notice all the less amusing things that come along the storyline with the Orcs, to put it mildly.

In all truth, this game wouldn't be fun if each successive chapter was easier than the previous ones.

The game needs to get harder. We should have to choose which buildings to get rid of to help us achieve our goals. I'm currently using 18 or more expansion grids for the orc chapter. I haven't built anything in over a month, all because I want to finish with these orcs.

I don't find any of the graphics offensive, in fact I thought the fairy chapter had the worst graphics so far.

As for the storyline, I don't pay attention. I look at the game more analytically and figure out what I need/want to get done. The names of things are meaningless as this is an escape.

To the original point of this thread, I have found in the last several weeks that activity has decreased.

 

[DeletedUser3468]

Perhaps fewer people are posting on the forum because they are tired of certain people either misreading or deliberately ignoring portions of what they have posted. Just sayin'...


*mutters to self: Don't feed the trolls, don't feed the trolls...*

 

[DeletedUser43]

Malfiore, you are entitled to your opinion about the story line. But others are entitled to theirs. You have belittled every opinion other than your own. Slavery isn't just "something". It is a big thing. People who are unhappy with this aren't "overly sensitive". Which seems to come down to:

If some people are offended by the concept and leave, then that's fine.

That is a pretty nasty thing to say to everyone here who is upset by that story. A big giant middle finger you are giving them. Are you paying out of your own pocket for all the lost customers who are leaving? It is costing someone money.

The very moment you start listening to every bit of advice given by the players, you hand over control of your game, and that is a fact. As a developer, you simply cannot allow that to happen.

Then you go to hyperbole again to make your point. As if asking for a tweak to a story is "handing over CONTROL of the game by listening to "EVERY BIT OF ADVICE."

It is equally as foolish to listen to NO advice by anyone. To dogmatically refuse to change a thing is childish.

And over what? OMG.....how could Elvenar go on without that story? The whole thing would come crashing down!! If they changed a word they would lose control of it all!!! The horror the horror!!!!!! They simply CANNOT ALLOW THAT TO HAPPEN!!!!

 

[DeletedUser486]

Perhaps fewer people are posting on the forum because they are tired of certain people either misreading or deliberately ignoring portions of what they have posted. Just sayin'...

Neither of the two. Part of your post was regarding a different title, thus it's was pointless for me to address it since we're on the Elvenar forum. Forum traffic has been increasing since I first joined the forums; what has been decreasing is the number of certain forum regulars, either due to bans or other reasons.

Slavery isn't just "something". It is a big thing. People who are unhappy with this aren't "overly sensitive".

I agree, it is a big thing. Just not in a game used as an escape mechanism. You can be unhappy with the concept of slavery as it applies to the real world, and when it has to do with certain people or races, not when it has to do with orcs in a browser game.

That is a pretty nasty thing to say to everyone here who is upset by that story. A big giant middle finger you are giving them. Are you paying out of your own pocket for all the lost customers who are leaving? It is costing someone money.

Allow me to rephrase.

When it comes down to it, the people leaving for the lore have the same exact impact as those who are leaving because they are unhappy with the product. When you look at them as numbers (which is how every company sees its customers), they are one and the same. It makes no difference whether one leaves for the lore of the features; they both will be replaced by newer players. The reason you chose to leave the game puts no additional value to you when you used to be a player, therefore claiming to be offended by a concept does not automatically render it a feature with immediate need of change. In other words, if you're offended by something, and not too many people are offended by the same thing, then it's your problem, not the game's.

Then you go to hyperbole again to make your point. As if asking for a tweak to a story is "handing over CONTROL of the game by listening to "EVERY BIT OF ADVICE."

It is, yes. You can't allow to be pushed around by your own playerbase, because it's a spiral dragging you down. To make small changes every time a problem is brought up, creates this feeling of expectancy and greed to the playerbase that every complaint of theirs will be heard and dealt with, when in reality, the majority of their complaints are out of place and because of personal inconvenience. If the company abruplty stops making these changes once they realize the game is taking the direction the playerbase wants it to take (which is horrible from a business standpoint), the players get upset from their sudden lack of control which leads to an uproar.

 

[DeletedUser594]

I went and read through the wiki pages and I have to say my reading of it is a bit different although I see where you could draw different interpretations:
"

But it is known that Orcs are ... well... Orcs! So they will be coming along with Goblins in order to work in some strange collaboration and make the best (or worst) for your city! These two races will form a contrasting coalition...Goblins are malicious and mischievous and their full purpose is cultivating mysterious mushrooms they can do genius experiments with, to later use on ... the Orcs!"

.
It sounds to me like they are doing experiments on the mushrooms or perhaps experimenting with the mushrooms on themselves to later give the orcs
basically it sounds to me a bit like they are concocting a recipe for later use

These two very distinct groups will work together "as much as they need but as little as possible", each side trying to get a bigger advantage from that collaboration than the other.

Orcs also get bored very easily and have a devouring appetite and lust for meat, so you have to keep them busy and distracted so that they don't eat your people! Maybe providing some activities for them in the Rally Point and rewarding them with some mushrooms will be enough?

You just need to find a way to .... let's say ... manipulate them! Attracted by the concepts of fighting and destruction, the Orcs will find your armories the appropriate place to live and breed, but don't worry, Goblins will provide you the knowledge and resources to control those muscled creatures: magic and powerful mushrooms are the key!

I'm not breeding Orcs. I'm housing them. What they do behind doors is their business. If anything i would just change the bit about control
of the creatures themselves to read maybe "manage the violent impulses..." or some such thing
Overall the whole arrangement sounds a lot like how I had to deal with the guys in my dormitory when I had to move off campus who had a pick up truck and would help you move for beer or other goodies