Fighting - is it a joke? the joke's on us?

[DeletedUser2231]

OK, so now that I have actually been reading, watching videos and playing this game I find the fighting in it to be horrible. There is absolutely no reason for how hard it is to win a battle. You all have made an amazing game but to just blow it so hard on this one simple thing is amazing.

I am human. I guess I fail right there because I don't have sorcs. But, here is my issue. I've tried all the combinations I can. IF I can win a fight, it's normally because I have to throw out at least two sets of troops as fodder so I can hold until after their first attack. If you haven't won it by round 3, hang it up, you are probably going to lose. I am not talking about treants either. I can beat those, I enjoy it. Those damn golems/steinling things are horrible and way OP. They just simply one shot my priests, two shot my pallies and they have 294782394872349823749237423984729347832 hit points, so my axe barbarians/cerebrus only kill 2 of the 300 on the field. That's ONLY if my barbs can reach them before decimation.

I am usually very good at turn based combat, I look to see where they can move, where I can move, etc. I almost never move first because that just says "Hey, I'm stupid, plug away for your first turn". I wait so that I can get in the first hits. That seems to help somewhat, but if I can't down a good portion by the end of turn 2, I'm done.

I could be missing something that I never studied on this game, there may be something that's missing I just never knew about, but I've read, researched, watched videos, etc. I can't seem to find it if there is an option. I'm only guessing but I think I just have to produce more goods and trade more so I can buy my way through the map.

Any information I don't have please share! Thank you.

 

[DeletedUser2062]

I loved the fighting aspect also, but found that the only way to win was to make my way through the research tree and get the stronger troop upgrades. Also the turn based fighting is impossible, I have to use the auto-fight option.

 

[DeletedUser61]

There's a whole collection of combat related links over at https://us.forum.elvenar.com/index.php?threads/battle-troop-training-costs.2435/#post-14681, but we're still waiting for someone who has the chops and the motivation to put together a comprehensive combat guide.

You didn't indicate how many sectors you have acquired, but that's the major difficulty factor, countered by your squad size technologies. Specifically, the base difficulty for each hexagonal ring is approximately the same as though you had first acquired all of the interior sectors, so you can skip around without changing your costs very much.

For my part I'm staying ahead of the Advanced Scouting Technology chests, but not by very much. I use auto-fight nearly every time (I prefer the puzzle to the combat) and I seldom lose more than 20% of my troop unless I'm intentionally running some sort of experiment. So the combat difficulty if fairly well balanced unless you're trying to acquire far more sectors that you need to unlock the chests. Some folks have acquired twice that many sectors, but to do so you have to cater most of the very difficult sectors.

Tournaments will be released to production this week, so you'll have plenty of opportunities to work on your combat skills.

 

[DeletedUser2231]

Well, that makes some sense, perhaps I shouldn't be fighting at ring 6+ in the 4th age and should wait for more promotions? The way I see it is I need to have stronger troops. Perhaps when I can upgrade priests they won't sink like the titanic. My pallies were really strong at first, then as I got out another circle, they just started getting pimp slapped by everything.

 

[DeletedUser1122]

Picking human you lose.
https://beta.forum.elvenar.com/index.php?threads/tables-and-calculators-from-bune.3326/
Down load the English version. The battle calculator really helps to avoid fights that cannot be won. There is lots of them.
https://beta.forum.elvenar.com/index.php?threads/encounters-guide.488/
The guide on page one is great. For more recent info read the last 2 pages.
The fighting design is that you loose 90% of your troops. As you progress the placement of obstacles and/or lengthening the battle field negates all strategies.
I only build Paladins and puppies.
How do you beat treant II?

 

[DeletedUser594]

Well, that makes some sense, perhaps I shouldn't be fighting at ring 6+ in the 4th age and should wait for more promotions? The way I see it is I need to have stronger troops. Perhaps when I can upgrade priests they won't sink like the titanic. My pallies were really strong at first, then as I got out another circle, they just started getting pimp slapped by everything.

If your Paladins can't take a hit then you are fighting too far ahead of your troop size/tech. With good tactics and strategy you can fight well outside of your troop level but at a certain point the brakes get slammed
I like my Human army better than the Elven- completely a personal preference not based in any stats- it's more fun but a lot wonkier than the straight at 'em Elven powerhouse.
The priests are always going to fold with a stiff breeze but they are still useful if you keep a few things in mind

• -the enemy will attack the unit with higher initiative

Priests have the lowest initiative @ 1 so the AI will choose any other target in range. Don't leave a priest isolated and he won't get hit

• spells from different troops don't accumulate they cancel

The Priest spell is "Divine Curse" which makes an enemy more vulnerable to attack. The spells don't stack so if you send a Paladin II the spell changes to "Daze enemies" which makes the enemy attack weaker.
in effect:
Priest spell= softer target/more damage to the enemy
Paladin= weaker target/ enemy can't hit as hard

The Priest goes last in a round and his spell carries through the whole next round unless that enemy is hit with a different spell.
The Axe Barbarian and Archers don't have spells so if you use a Priest they will all cause more damage to the enemy under spell.

The human army will get through the fifth ring quickly while the Elven struggles until Sorceress unlocks. The elven army gets the advantage from then on (imo), until the Humans unlock Storm Barbarian and Blessed Paladin which makes the armies closer to even but still entirely different in strengths/weakness and tactical use.

Share your tips with us as you continue fighting:
https://us.forum.elvenar.com/index.php?threads/battle-tactics-tips-tricks.1432/

As you progress the placement of obstacles and/or lengthening the battle field negates all strategies.
I only build Paladins and puppies.
How do you beat treant II?

The field stays the same 8x9 throughout. For Treant II you need Paladin + Archers, use paladin/terrain as blockers- Treants are open to Archer Attack with no ability to counter even from behind a single rock if you position correctly.

 

[DeletedUser2231]

Great info, thanks guys! I think my biggest problem is trying to get too big for my britches, lol. Yes, I should wait to fight for sure. My barbs and archers are the only things upgraded once. If I use auto attack, forget about it, done. I can win but I have to fight carefully and at ring 6/7, I have to sacrifice at least two or three stacks. So for now, I'll just build troops, make to age 5 and rank up everything.

 

[Maz Mellor]

Priests have the lowest initiative @ 1 so the AI will choose any other target in range. Don't leave a priest isolated and he won't get hit

Interestingly, this seems not to hold true in the Tournaments. I was just fighting against an army that included two squads of priests, and they both went straight for my own priests. The poor friars were toast long before my cerberuses and barbarians were able to kill off the enemy spellcasters. It wasn't pretty.

Also, am I supposed to be able to defeat blessed paladins in the Tournaments?? Because, even in the earliest/nearest Tournament provinces, I can't seem to do a thing about them. Guess my troops just aren't advanced enough yet.

 

[DeletedUser1161]

Also, am I supposed to be able to defeat blessed paladins in the Tournaments?? Because, even in the earliest/nearest Tournament provinces, I can't seem to do a thing about them. Guess my troops just aren't advanced enough yet.

I'm having that problem in the tournaments with my little human city. The troops are far more advanced than mine. I'm going to be SOL when they bump up the catering costs.

 

[Maz Mellor]

Same here. I can't do anything against the Granite Golems either. If I see the enemy has a Granite Golem or Blessed Paladin in the ranks, I just cater immediately. And by 'cater', I mean put my pride and dignity on the ground in front of their leader and run like a scared rabbit back the way I came.

 

[DeletedUser2803]

Just a thought, but when we win a fight how hard would it be to add their troops to our numbers? I mean if we lose a fight they keep our guys why don't we get to keep theirs?

 

[DeletedUser706]

Just a thought, but when we win a fight how hard would it be to add their troops to our numbers? I mean if we lose a fight they keep our guys why don't we get to keep theirs?

I'd love that especially since my current enemy troops in the Tournament are also Elven troops. Sure they should see the light and join my good cause ... I wish!

 

[DeletedUser2532]

The fighting is uneven and not fun, the only way these days I can get anywhere is to negotiate and utilize my resources thereby making it more difficult to complete research quotas. I've tried auto fight and doing it on my own without much success either way. If I abandon this game altogether, that would be the reason why, the battles as you advance in the game are just too difficult, for me, at least.

 

[DeletedUser1122]

am I supposed to be able to defeat blessed paladins in the Tournaments

The granite golem and golem II just ate my unblessed paladins. I hate elixir provinces.

 

[DeletedUser]

First of all, you have to learn your unit information (every single thing depicted in that window:class, HP, dmg, size, speed, att range, initiative, reflect and bonus) >>> have some theoretical idea about how they would behave in battle,
then watch them in action and adjust your tactics.

Pay attention to even smallest things such as picking order, your and your enemy attack order. Since all of them will affect the outcome.
Hold the cursor over them to see how much HP they have left/you have left, how much damage you/they would make...to decide the most benefit attack order.

Make the most use of map obstacles and different unit range.

I fight with both human and elven armies. They both have their own strong and weak points (at the same level). However, I never had a chance to try the max level human troops so I can't say how terrific human troops are at the end of the fairy age. But so far they're well balanced.

At the beginning, the wardogs make it easier for humans in encounters with cannoners (main grimace to the elves) but then the elven priestesses balance this out.

Don't think like "Oh maybe my troops are too weak. I should wait for the research tree." You learn when you grow meanwhile your encounters also advance...
****

To beat the treant (all types, both races): if you don't have mages, use archers, kite them around the map since archers and mages out-range the trees >>> no loss.

To beat the golemn (all types)

- For humans: use dogs or barbs (if you run out of dogs).
Of course they will butcher your knights because your knights are heavy melee unit, and the golemns have bonus damage on heavy melee unit!

- For elves: use priestess
With their defend bonus against all range units + their curse, priestess will render golemn damage to zero.
If you don't have priestess yet, try the swordancers. You will take some damage (sadly) but will kill them eventually.

(_ _') my goal is always as least as zero unit loss. 20 to 30 % loss in one encounter is a bad match. Up 50% loss is disaster. 90% loss is a fun, exciting match because I outlast my enemy

 

[DeletedUser594]

Excellent points. I think the tactical play is actually diminished around the time you unlock the Blessed Paladine and Granite Golem bcs they are just so powerful and by that point archers become too weak to be effective. The exciting 90% loss fights for me were the Gems territories (if i got that right) when using my human army- paladine, cerb's, archers, priest
up against knights, archers, dogs - you have to dance around enough in the early fight to get to the end which becomes a slugfest

With the Blessed Paladine so strong and archers in need of an update you lose some of the chess like quality of combo attacks and it feels like you traded all your pieces for queens. They're fun troops- no doubt- but make battle less engaging since you just roll 5 paladine/granite golem at your enemy and your archers gather dust, I do hope they give those guys a tune up in the next chapter.

 

[DeletedUser1122]

I fight with both human and elven armies. They both have their own strong and weak points (at the same level). However, I never had a chance to try the max level human troops so I can't say how terrific human troops are at the end of the fairy age. But so far they're well balanced.

Its odd that statement of "even Stevens" armies bugs me.
If you can read the Wiki it will tells you. Saying it won't make it so. But who cares?

Just so you know what is coming I thought I'd share this statement from Beta

"right now it's actually more of an elves game, or an anti human game.
I hoped that this month we would finally see the fairy units entering the arena since they potentially can be the game balancer for tournaments between elven and humans.
Luckily I am an elf on my main account so no troubles for me, but there is no way I could achieve the same on my human account."
CrazyWizard, Saturday at 05:51
Fore warned is fore armed

 

[DeletedUser]

I
"right now it's actually more of an elves game, or an anti human game.

I mean I can't test how advance the priest III will be in comparison with priest II yet.
However, so far I see the combination of blessed paladines, Cerberus II and priests II on the human side is well balanced with the one of treant II, granite golemn and sorceress II on the elven side. (In the term that I can fight a similar encounter on the same ring order with similar outcome).

I can't expect they would be perfect balanced like 1 = 1 for each unit. But in the combination of 3, they have curse, bonus, damage and range supporting each other.

However, the fighting style seems to go 2 directions in my experience. The elven fighting style is more defensive (which I'm more comfortable with) while the human style is more offensive (which I enjoy sometimes....)

Excellent points. I think the tactical play is actually diminished around the time you unlock the Blessed Paladine and Granite Golem bcs they are just so powerful and by that point archers become too weak to be effective. The exciting 90% loss fights for me were the Gems territories (if i got that right) when using my human army- paladine, cerb's, archers, priest
up against knights, archers, dogs - you have to dance around enough in the early fight to get to the end which becomes a slugfest

With the Blessed Paladine so strong and archers in need of an update you lose some of the chess like quality of combo attacks and it feels like you traded all your pieces for queens. They're fun troops- no doubt- but make battle less engaging since you just roll 5 paladine/granite golem at your enemy and your archers gather dust, I do hope they give those guys a tune up in the next chapter.

Haha. I never rolled with 5 golemns however I do roll 5 slots of sorceress (sometimes since I unlocked them and almost all the time now, esp during elixir and dust tournaments to reduce the troop loss).
I often do 3 golemns + 2 sorc or 3 sorc vs 2 golemns to speed up the fight until I ran out of golemns then go 5 sorcs =))

I stopped training barbs/swords and archers on both races since the end of chapter V.

Anyway I have the Bulwark so I use them now and then, too.

***
One of my most memorable match was when I first unlocked the sorcs so I brought them right into the fight on ring 9th. All my melees died out save my 5 sorcs who only killed 1 or 2 knights in an attack. And they had 42 knight left or so! lmao.
I ran around a rock like 48+ rounds to finish them.
Just one wrong move they would tickle me to death.
I wondered why I wouldn't just gave up...

 

[DeletedUser594]

Its odd that statement of "even Stevens" armies bugs me.
If you can read the Wiki it will tells you. Saying it won't make it so. But who cares?

Just so you know what is coming I thought I'd share this statement from Beta

"right now it's actually more of an elves game, or an anti human game.
I hoped that this month we would finally see the fairy units entering the arena since they potentially can be the game balancer for tournaments between elven and humans.
Luckily I am an elf on my main account so no troubles for me, but there is no way I could achieve the same on my human account."
CrazyWizard, Saturday at 05:51
Fore warned is fore armed

My Elven city opened on Arendyll mid-june 2015 (roughly)
currently: 77,800 points with 190 provinces unlocked.

Winyandor- Human opened the day Winyandor launched some time later (I don't feel like looking dates up)
74,000 points with 170 provinces unlocked

I've built some others when new worlds opened split evenly between human and elven.

Elven cities are just a bit easier and more forgiving, and the army much easier to handle except for the awful period in ring 5 when elves are canon fodder and sorceress ages away.

The Human city requires more planning, it gets jammed up more it's more of a struggle. The army requires a lot more handling and thoughtful use of troops, and paying attention to battle to find the nuances that makes each troop useful.
It takes more time and attention and getting geeky with the wiki and guides but I find it way more fun. They are closer to mini chess matches imo

Personally if made to choose I stick with the humans because the army is just that much more fun to use if one likes geeking out on battle. Learning to fight effectively for me required taking several minutes during the start looking and planning, a lot of retreating and regrouping and wiki use and guides and trial and error and advice to become imo opinion, an OK fighter-not great, but competent with the human army.
I think this game gets a lot of players who value the aesthetics, cooperative efforts, and social interaction and not the minutia of the game mechanics especially in battle which many dislike in general. If given the option many would skip all battle aspects of the game entirely. For them I say Elven for sure.
You get the best defensive/hit taker in the treant who doubles as the hardest hitter in the game and you get the second hardest hitter in GG who also attacks from range, plus your sorceress can neutralize the golem and the archer.
The elven armies with a few guidelines and a basic knowledge of the mechanics will take you further than human.

The BP's help narrow the power gap and surpass the treants defensive HPs by 33%,and AXE get even better against all light melee..,but heavy ranged (HR) are missing from human army and when fighting against them (HR) you need to use cerbs to soften, axe to follow/finish or just weaken and let the BP's clean up and creatively reincorporate your cerbs back into the fight if they survive the first run.
just my impression but it feels to me like human fights are just more complex, chess vs checkers, rube goldberg vs pinball..,maybe bcs i had more time to get used to elven it just seems simpler.
but for those with a bit of a fight geek streak, who like knowing how many steps each unit takes and it's attack range, order of attack, good troops matchups and on...etc...- the humans offer more intricate game play in battle...

of course in manufactoring the humans have it simpler with big high volume factories while elves require more thought with those factories at 2/3rds capacity per factory so there's all that mess to pick apart....
The question of which is better is specific to the individual style of play and which aspects of the game appeal to you imo

I mean I can't test how advance the priest III will be in comparison with priest II yet.
However, so far I see the combination of blessed paladines, Cerberus II and priests II on the human side is well balanced with the one of treant II, granite golemn and sorceress II on the elven side. (In the term that I can fight a similar encounter on the same ring order with similar outcome).

I can't expect they would be perfect balanced like 1 = 1 for each unit. But in the combination of 3, they have curse, bonus, damage and range supporting each other.

However, the fighting style seems to go 2 directions in my experience. The elven fighting style is more defensive (which I'm more comfortable with) while the human style is more offensive (which I enjoy sometimes....)..

Priest III gets the liberace best outfit award with his new "purple rain" tunic. If you can't hit hard ya better dazzle em with the sequins.
I'm excited to try them and Sorceress III as well- just a few more night essence she's unlocked...muahh ha ha haaa...

The Axe Barbarian might be worth another look for you. I made a ton before the upgrade to get through a backlog of elixer territories. The light melee bonus is nice and they pack an ok wallop against everything but ents
I always think of the elven army as more offense based. Maybe its bcs of the treant/golum powerhouses where the strategy is "go over there and just smack that guy really, really hard..,repeat".
My post about 9 posts back in this thread has a link to a thread for sharing tactics. Please feel free to add any gems

 

[DeletedUser706]

Hold the cursor over them to see how much HP they have left/you have left, how much damage you/they would make...to decide the most benefit attack order.

I was wondering about that. I checked the HP amounts on the initiative bar during battles and to me it looks like the amount of HP shown does not change when troops are hit without some of them dying (i.e. the game says X damage but no troops dying). Is this a bug? I find it hard to keep track of troops being close to losing another member because a previous hit nearly took one out...