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    Your Elvenar Team

Forum Responses

ajqtrz

Chef - loquacious Old Dog
Silly Bubbles said:
I used to be quite active on other forums but it got tiring to be attacked every time I had a different opinion to the established majority of the forum. All I want is to share what works for me that others might find useful and support this great generous game. It isn't intended to persuade anyone to change their opinion or attack anyone, it's up to them to decide what makes the most sense and what works the best for them. After all, we are all different and have different opinions that doesn't mean that we're saying that other people's opinion is stupid just because we have a different one.

So I thought I'd try US forum. I loved it, I was able to say what I thought without judgement. When other people didn't like it, they just ignored it. When we agreed then we liked each other posts. It was great!

Now, I'd love to know what happened to that forum. Where is the diversity and tolerance?
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Well, it may be that some of us take so many contrarian views and express them strongly, that some of those who were here before are just not used to everybody "going along to get along." Whenever I, or anybody else, makes a statement I ask, "could the opposite be true?" If I find good reason for it being true, I might just suggest it, along with a few words of reasoning and evidence. My expectation is that if you make a public statement about something you are inviting a discussion of your point of view and have some reasoning and evidence to back it up. Sadly, many times all I get is a sense of great passion for the belief and not much else. And while passion may equal persuasion to the one feeling as they do, it's a very weak form of persuasion since if you rely on it you have to get the person to feel as you do. How do you do that without presenting the reason and evidence that persuaded you? Now, having said that, it may be that you weren't persuaded at all but are pretty much repeating the beliefs of your social group because you've always assumed your social group is right. That too, is a not the best form of persuasion. "Believe me because I'm passionate or believe me because my social group is passionate about it," is not going to take you very far no matter how strongly you and your group feel.

The diversity and tolerance fail when people become sheep following whatever their group norm is without actually doing their homework, and then expecting because they feel strongly everybody ought to "go along to get along."

At least that's my take on it. I could be wrong.

AJ
 

Dew Spinner

Well-Known Member
Alram said:
@Dew Spinner
You really should start your own thread to rage about it. This really isn't the place for that kind of thing.
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Responding is not raging, what are you talking about? If you feel anything I said is against the Forum Rules then you can report my comment without the bullying attitude. The report button is easy to find.
 
Smooper

Smooper

Well-Known Member
LOL. I think the internet has destroyed everyone's patience. I don't get too offended if people don't agree with me. I may even come around to their way of thinking. But the skins in this place are definitely getting thinner.
 

Dew Spinner

Well-Known Member
Smooper said:
LOL. I think the internet has destroyed everyone's patience. I don't get too offended if people don't agree with me. I may even come around to their way of thinking. But the skins in this place are definitely getting thinner.
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I know what you mean! ;)
 
Silly Bubbles

Silly Bubbles

You cant pop them all
Maybe we need a definition of personal attack. As per Forum Rules:

Please help us keeping harmony in the community. Make sure that you treat others respectfully, do not insult anyone and remain polite. Aggressive, vulgar and provocative language will not be tolerated.
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Here's as per Wiki:

Typically this term refers to a rhetorical strategy where the speaker attacks the character, motive, or some other attribute of the person making an argument rather than attacking the substance of the argument itself.
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In summary:

The Latin phase argumentum ad hominem stands for "argument against the person".[8] "Ad" corresponds to "against" but it could also mean "to" or "towards".
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Any other clarifications are very welcome! :)
 
Katwick

Katwick

Cartographer
Pick your spot, and drive the stakes deep!
20220216_161202.jpg
 
Darielle

Darielle

Chef, Scroll-Keeper, and Buddy Fan Club Member
Silly Bubbles said:
I used to be quite active on other forums but it got tiring to be attacked every time I had a different opinion to the established majority of the forum. All I want is to share what works for me that others might find useful and support this great generous game. It isn't intended to persuade anyone to change their opinion or attack anyone, it's up to them to decide what makes the most sense and what works the best for them. After all, we are all different and have different opinions that doesn't mean that we're saying that other people's opinion is stupid just because we have a different one.

So I thought I'd try US forum. I loved it, I was able to say what I thought without judgement. When other people didn't like it, they just ignored it. When we agreed then we liked each other posts. It was great!

Now, I'd love to know what happened to that forum. Where is the diversity and tolerance?
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I think it's still here. I know that I have disagreed vehemently with some people at times, and we probably sounded to someone who didn't know us like we were attacking each other, but when the dust settled, we were still friends and we still respected each other. (I believe that, at least.) There isn't a single, solitary person on this forum that I hate or even greatly dislike. All have their good qualities that I respect. So I don't think members of this forum attack the people, but rather the opinions (if attack is the right word ... I wouldn't quite go that far). You can still like the person without liking one particular opinion. I think being able to voice your own objections is probably a sign that you're more comfortable, not less, in talking with the person who is giving those opinions. That's one of the reasons you'll rarely see me getting into a heated discussion with a new player. I don't know them well enough to know whether they are reasonable, and therefore I don't want the discussion to turn ugly so I say nothing.
 
crackie

crackie

Chef, Scroll-Keeper, Buddy's #1 Fan
Dew Spinner said:
That is where the mistake happens, LOTS of players come to the forum looking for tips and tricks to succeed in the game and if "old timers" are steering them wrong (because they are standing their ground) then they are doing a disservice to the game as a whole. You have always said that "new" players need help and guidance. steering them wrong isn't help and guidance. It's making them frustrated to the point of not continuing to play the game.
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Everyone, newbies included, should exercise discernment when reading, and not just here but anywhere! My gosh, take some ownership and personal responsibility of your situation, people! Don’t go blaming others for your actions bc you mindlessly followed someone else. Besides, I have been known to do some nonsensical things to my city every now and then.

A person in my EN group just plonked down an Enar under the reasoning that they are of the Pokémon generation with a need to collect them all, which is good of a reason as any. It’s their city and they can Enar if they want to. I am only responsible for making sure people in my FS meet their minimums that they agreed to upon joining. However they get there works for me. Since our tourney min is only 1k, it’s pretty easy to meet and they can have an Enar if they want. There are many ways to get the same thing done in the game.

Dew Spinner said:
With that said, I am all ears for anyone who can put forth a "great" argument for why Enars is anything but garbage, except for a niche play style.
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Whether they put down an Enar or not won’t affect your city and they’re prob not even in your fellowship. They don’t need to justify it to anyone here.

There is a difference between someone with a specific question or asking for specific advice and being given wrong answers versus making general statements. Forum users are a small percentage of the population and even among us, everyone has different playing styles. Some are casual, some are hardcore, some are sprinters, and some are here for a scenic drive. The intricacies of what MinMax discovered can be ignored wholesale by a lot of players that care not for tourney or Spire. Like there is a poll right now in another thread with people literally saying they make cities explicitly with goal of pretty buildings. You gonna tell them they can’t Enar or they need to justify it to you?
 

ajqtrz

Chef - loquacious Old Dog
Silly Bubbles said:
Interesting. Do you actually think I need external validation? I think that I can stand on my own quite well. At least my every second post (I think) is not popular while all it does is stating the truth to my best knowledge that others ignore. A lot of times, couple of weeks later, others say the same thing and everyone loves it. Have you tried to do it on your own? It's fun!
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This is a good question, if generalized. It may be that one person. or another doesn't need "external validation," but we are social animals and most of us do need that kind of validation. If you're aware of it, I'm one who would appear to need it about as little as the next person. But not so. I find that when I take a contrarian view, I get the validation that I'm on the right course from two sources. First, there are usually a few who get what I'm saying and even if they don't reach the same conclusions as I, they do show respect for my position by engaging in a good and civil discussion. That validates me because it says I'm not the bad guy, which is what ad hominem arguments claim. The second validation I get is when people change. They may never acknowledge they have changed their behaviors, but I can see it in how the group operates, and that validates me as I've helped move things along in a direction, I think more beneficial to the group.

AJ
 

Dew Spinner

Well-Known Member
crackie said:
Everyone, newbies included, should exercise discernment when reading, and not just here but anywhere! My gosh, take some ownership and personal responsibility of your situation, people! Don’t go blaming others for your actions bc you mindlessly followed someone else. Besides, I have been known to do some nonsensical things to my city every now and then.

A person in my EN group just plonked down an Enar under the reasoning that they are of the Pokémon generation with a need to collect them all, which is good of a reason as any. It’s their city and they can Enar if they want to. I am only responsible for making sure people in my FS meet their minimums that they agreed to upon joining. However they get there works for me. Since our tourney min is only 1k, it’s pretty easy to meet and they can have an Enar if they want. There are many ways to get the same thing done in the game.


Whether they put down an Enar or not won’t affect your city and they’re prob not even in your fellowship. They don’t need to justify it to anyone here.

There is a difference between someone with a specific question or asking for specific advice and being given wrong answers versus making general statements. Forum users are a small percentage of the population and even among us, everyone has different playing styles. Some are casual, some are hardcore, some are sprinters, and some are here for a scenic drive. The intricacies of what MinMax discovered can be ignored wholesale by a lot of players that care not for tourney or Spire. Like there is a poll right now in another thread with people literally saying they make cities explicitly with goal of pretty buildings. You gonna tell them they can’t Enar or they need to justify it to you?
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Of course not, there is a difference between placing it in "your" city and "advising" that it is a good AW. it is not a good AW. There are plenty of Forum threads about best/worst AWs and Enars has never made the best and has always made the worst and if I remember correctly, the #1 spot on the worst. Most players coming to the Forum are harder core players looking for advanced strategies for advanced performance, so good advise is pretty important.
 
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