Game Mechanics

[BrinDarby]

Bringing this to a new thread, the tangent was AW rebalancing
and a trend to tie things to SS, with pros/cons.... ( from beta thread )

1​	+3​	6-9​	+50.000 %​	ch1​	​	opt​
2​	+6​	9-15​	+66.667 %​	1​	​	​
3​	+9​	15-24​	+60.000 %​	1​	opt​	​
4​	+12​	24-36​	+50.000 %​	ch2​	​	opt​
5​	+15​	36-51​	+41.667 %​	2​	opt​	​
6​	+18​	51-69​	+35.294 %​	2​	​	​
7​	+21​	69-90​	+30.434 %​	ch3​	​	​
8​	+24​	90-114​	+26.667 %​	3​	​	​
9​	+27​	114-141​	+23.684 %​	3​	opt​	opt​
10​	+30​	141-171​	+21.276 %​	ch4​	​	​

​

11​	+33​	171-204​	+19.298 %​	4​	​	​
12​	+36​	204-240​	+17.647 %​	4​	​	​
13​	+39​	240-279​	+16.250 %​	ch5​	opt​	​
14​	+42​	279-321​	+15.053 %​	5​	​	​
15​	+45​	321-366​	+14.018 %​	5​	opt​	opt​
16​	+48​	366-414​	+13.114 %​	ch6​	​	opt​
17​	+51​	414-465​	+12.318 %​	6​	opt​	opt​
18​	+54​	465-519​	+11.613 %​	6​	​	​
19​	+57​	519-576​	+10.982 %​	6​	​	​

​

SS + #​

+++ in SS​

from-to​

+++ in SS as % of​

Chapter​

Elf​

Human​

​

As you can see as CH goes up, % of your current SS for each SS+
decreases.... and by the chart CH4 has no optional researches
and increases by 99 or 70.213%... that means your available squads
decrease by that amount..... if you start with 100 squads, looking
at CH4 , you effectively end up with 29 squads by doing those
(3) SS inc researches. If your recoup rate of troops was 1 day,
that increase pushes that out to 1d 16.85 hrs.

One wrinkle here is if you skip lets say SS+9 , when you do
SS+10 .... instead of a 27 increase its a 30 increase.

What Im trying to show here is :
the higher your CH, the less each SS+ hurts you .... both in
avail squads but also in recoup time with equal armories.
By end of CH21, (21) optional SS+ researches are possible,
so tie'n buffs to SS not CH, is inherantly imbalanced. If ALL
SS+'s were lets say +10%, Inno wouldn't inversely hurt
lower CH players more than higher CH players.

IF "placed expansions" didn't hurt a player in any of the
calculations, then sure..... ya get expansions each CH +
the ones for map progression..... So that allows the ability
to add/upgrade armories and training bldgs in terms
of needing more pop/culture to do it...... BUT we all know
that "placed land" does make a huge difference in Spire
catering calcs, almost making catering the Spire way too
expensive quickly if ya place all the land ya can.
This allows 1 playstyle to be :
Skip ALL optional researches, and only place Land when
its absolutely necessary. ( lean/mean approach )
( I guess this is also why I have Never had AWs either )

Just looking @ engame players..... 1 might do all (79) SS+'s
while another might do only (58) SS+'s. Because of the
addition of TheCauldron, thats less likely now, but possible.
7000ish SS versus 9300ish SS is huge, 25% less.

Still think SS is a good metric to tie stuff to ?????
(edited , para 3 , to +10%)

I still ask, is SS a good metric to tie rebalancing to ?
( SS+ 78 is projected to +234 , 9005-9239 , +2.599 % )

 

[BrinDarby]

We have the spire calc/formula , tourn calc/formula
both for fighting and catering, then there's things like
MH lvl , SS lvl, CH lvl, AW levels, ect ect ....

Because of the rebalancing of AWs, things tied just
to SS's..... can be problematic and unbalanced as is.

 

[Pheryll]

Let's look at a larger view (assuming all SS researches taken). The SS based wonders increase relative to goods from chapter 4 to 17 roughly doubling the original efficiency, only to start losing ground in the later chapters when the production got ramped up per chapter. In chapter 21 they began to ramp up the squad size so that it was able to nearly mirror the goods increase for that chapter.

Chapter	Squad Size	Goods per day (Aureate Phoenix)	Goods per Squad Size
4	240	2880	12.0
5	366	4320	11.8
6	576	6120	10.6
7	834	7860	9.4
8	1140	9780	8.5
9	1494	11880	7.9
10	1896	14400	7.5
11	2346	16800	7.1
12	2844	19800	6.9
13	3390	22800	6.7
14	3984	26400	6.6
15	4626	28200	6.0
16	5316	31200	5.8
17	6054	34200	5.6
18	6840	39600	5.7
19	7674	51000	6.6
20	8556	65400	7.6
21	10700	83400	7.7

 

[BrinDarby]

@Pheryll ,
I understand what ur say'n, but ur point is ?? lolol

( and my projections differed in CH12+, hmmmm , heh heh )

 

[Pheryll]

@Pheryll ,
I understand what ur say'n, but ur point is ?? lolol

( and my projections differed in CH12+, hmmmm , heh heh )

I am not 100% sure of your point either. You make an argument to skip optional SS research, but these researches do not affect the calculation for tournament/spire squad size (only the mandatory researches count, whatever they may be).

 

[BrinDarby]

You make an argument to skip optional SS research,

ok , uhhhh

1st off, increasing SS doesn't make it easier/harder,
it just makes it more expensive per fight, in terms
of loss of troops..... Recoup time is slower without
add'd infrastructure, thats just more land need'd.
So yes, there are rational/logical reasons for skipp'n
the optional SS+ researchces. ( By ch 21, (2) engame
players can be far apart in SS. ) Just as doing all
the optionals is 1 playstyle, so is skipp'n them all.

Next, tie'n SS to things just fosters the nudge
to players to always do the optional researches,
because we all know Inno wants us all to play the
same way, no matter what it takes.....

Now, tie'n the rebalancing , by SS, to so many of
the AWs, its making them all cookie cutter instead
of the Variety there was, in the old values. It also
builds in an inherant imbalance, due to the fact
that optional researches exsist.

the same thing happens if tied to MH, because a
player might be on the low end of a block, then
jump CHs and get more, thus be more "behind"
and 2 players in the same CH, might have much
diff MH lvls, thus another inherant imbalance.

1 reason I posted that chart was to show, just how
cruel SS+s are early on compared to late CHs.

I'd much rather see the main metric be CH, not SS.
That still allows mgmt to change 1 value basically
and rebalance multiple bldgs..... oooooof, heh

 

[Pheryll]

ok , uhhhh

1st off, increasing SS doesn't make it easier/harder,
it just makes it more expensive per fight, in terms
of loss of troops..... Recoup time is slower without
add'd infrastructure, thats just more land need'd.

That is increasing the tournament/spire squad size, which has nothing to do with the squad size from research.

 

[BrinDarby]

which has nothing to do with the squad size from research.

how so ??

seems its a % of your base SS in the barracks display.
if you're SS goes up, you're taking more squads to
the fight and so is your enemy.

20 vs 20 is not harder/easier to win than 60 vs 60
the only difference is how many squads are lost.

 

[Pheryll]

how so ??

seems its a % of your base SS in the barracks display.
if you're SS goes up, you're taking more squads to
the fight and so is your enemy.

20 vs 20 is not harder/easier to win than 60 vs 60
the only difference is how many squads are lost.

Nope. The tournament/spire SS looks at mandatory techs, AW levels, and expansions. It ignores the squad size you have researched.

 

[BrinDarby]

the last time , and the last time lol, I did an optional SS
research, my core SS went up, my Tourn SS/enemies
went up, and my Spire SS/enemies went up.....

I play on a glacial scale, I notice alot ..... heh heh

 

[Pheryll]

the last time , and the last time lol, I did an optional SS
research, my core SS went up, my Tourn SS/enemies
went up, and my Spire SS/enemies went up.....

I play on a glacial scale, I notice alot ..... heh heh

It is difficult to isolate the tournament/spire SS increase to a specific change, given that updating for the values the tournament uses are made once a week before the tournament starts. If you upgraded a wonder during this time it would trigger the increase that you saw.

 

[BrinDarby]

It is difficult to isolate

normally, yes....
but I have no AWs, it was a 1 off chg, specifically
to check things , on a Sat night between things.
So, it was easy to isolate what the effects were
knowing what the trigger was.

 

[BrinDarby]

The same goes for "placed land" and the Spire catering
formula. 1 plot of land, might net me 10k in goods/week,
but its gonna cost me an xtra 15k in goods/week to play
the Spire, and thats best case senario, in reality its more
like 20-25k in goods/week. God help me if I add land for
other reasons and don't add more goods.

The most balanced approach is to tie stuff to CH. This
allows for different playstyles, without imbalancing
things due to variety in play.

 

[BrinDarby]

who knows total cost for all 48 premium expansions.
( yes if its 49, I'm saying max possible)

expansion #3 is 1000 diamonds.

 

[TimeMachine]

who knows total cost for all 48 premium expansions.

I don't know! The highest cost for one Premium Expansion I've ever heard of was 14K of diamonds for one single Premium Expansion.
Don't know which number it was so I can't say how expensive it can get.

In my first city the next Premium Expansion would cost 3600 diamonds, based on a total of 48 this would be the price for Premium Expansion #12

 

[BrinDarby]

The highest cost for one Premium Expansion I've ever heard of was 14K

IF..... 14k was the last one...... lets do this....
median is 7k * 48 = 336,000
336,000 / 11k ( best diam/$$$ offer ) = 30.54
30.54 * 79.99 = $ 2,443.00

Just my opinion, I won't pay 2400 dollars for any game.

 

[iamthouth]

By the end of Ch21, you can place 179 expansions.
You start with 6, Research Expansions are 59, Province Expansions are 67, and there are 47 Premium Expansions available by then.
Expansions above number 18 increase in (full) price by 500 diamonds each one you purchase, so expansion 47 costs 20,500 diamonds.
At full price, you would have paid 448,050 diamonds, if all at 10% discount 403,245 diamonds, and if all at 20% discount 358,440 diamonds.
I don't know what that is in dollar terms, as I don't coin at all.

 

[BrinDarby]

wow @iamthouth , thanks for that info....

 

[BrinDarby]

Things that make ya go hmmmmmmm....

If I have started Tournament and Spire, and lets
say on wednesday I add 10 expansions and
complete (3) SS+ researches..... The Spire and Tourn
won't be effected till the next week.

Then WHY if a player has started a CH, any changes
come into effect aren't applied once they move to
the next Chapter ???? Uniformity here makes sence.

 

[Dhurrin]

I don't know! The highest cost for one Premium Expansion I've ever heard of was 14K of diamonds for one single Premium Expansion.
Don't know which number it was so I can't say how expensive it can get.

In my first city the next Premium Expansion would cost 3600 diamonds, based on a total of 48 this would be the price for Premium Expansion #12

I still have 10 Premium Expansions left that I could acquire. First one up is 16.000 diamonds