Greedy, stingy traders

[Maevie]

I'm seeing lots of people posting disproportionate trades lately, not even including the Trader's fee. In all honesty, while the fee is grrr, I would much rather pay that if I have to on an offer that starts out fair than on offers that seem to be intentionally giving less than they take, as long as it doesn't deplete my supplies.

Some examples;

1. player wants 200 steel (trader's fee makes it 300), but is only offering 100 marble.

2. player is offering 5 silk and wants 20 crystals (+10 for fee).

3. (this one is related, although the offers themselves are of equal value without the fee) player constantly ignores existing offers to post the same in reverse, apparently so that the burden of the expense can be on you. Well, I'm not accepting any more offers from this person - they can either keep waiting or realize that it's not going to kill them to accept someone else's offer and pay the little fee sometimes.

 

[Ashrem]

Sometimes people don't know if they are in someone else's trading range who is bigger than them. They may think that offering the reciprocal trade will be cheaper for you than it is for them. They also might not even realize the existence of the trader fee, and think people are just offering that kind of trade. Maybe they don't see a lot of trades for what they have, and are trying to make a little extra. Maybe it's intended for a fellowship member and they don't want other people to take it, and the existence of the reciprocal trades is intentional to keep outsiders from taking it. Maybe their FS is trying to grow them, and has asked them to post bad trades so they can funnel a little extra to them.

Maybe they're just stupid, or greedy, but there are lots of possibilities.

 

[DeletedUser3821]

My FS has a "2fer" day for the newer players/members under 20,000 score where we offer to pay double for their boosted goods trades. They don't get carried away, and they realize we're trying to help them grow. I'm sure they must seem like bizarre trades to my neighbors.

 

[SoggyShorts]

My FS has a "2fer" day for the newer players/members under 20,000 score where we offer to pay double for their boosted goods trades. They don't get carried away and realize we're trying to help them grow. I'm sure they must seem like bizarre trades to my neighbors.

Yep, if it's your boosted tournament and you haven't hit 700%, then 1 and 0 star trades are fine with me. Realistically a chapter 3 player can't even post big enough zero star trades to soak up more than a days production for a chapter 10 player.

 

[Maevie]

Sometimes people don't know if they are in someone else's trading range who is bigger than them. They may think that offering the reciprocal trade will be cheaper for you than it is for them. They also might not even realize the existence of the trader fee, and think people are just offering that kind of trade. Maybe they don't see a lot of trades for what they have, and are trying to make a little extra. Maybe it's intended for a fellowship member and they don't want other people to take it, and the existence of the reciprocal trades is intentional to keep outsiders from taking it. Maybe their FS is trying to grow them, and has asked them to post bad trades so they can funnel a little extra to them.

Maybe they're just stupid, or greedy, but there are lots of possibilities.

My post was intended for those on whom the shoe might fit. Perhaps the people who are simply ignorant will wise up.

"the existence of the reciprocal trades is intentional to keep outsiders from taking it"

I would be more likely to accept a reciprocal trade since I have no way of knowing who it is meant for. When an offer is made available to me, I have to assume it is fair game to accept. The Trader system should be reworked then to allow fellowship members to trade with each other so that outsiders can't accept an offer that wasn't meant for them.

 

[SoggyShorts]

The Trader system should be reworked then to allow fellowship members to trade with each other so that outsiders can't accept an offer that wasn't meant for them.

This has been suggested before, and the developers said it will not happen, as it would further reduce the number of trades in the world, making it even harder for those in a weak FS (or none at all) to get what they need.

 

[Ashrem]

My post was intended for those on whom the shoe might fit. Perhaps the people who are simply ignorant will wise up.

The devs have already told us that by far the vast majority of players never visit the forums. Your post has the probably unintended consequence of almost certainly not reaching any significant number of players for whom you intended it.

 

[Maevie]

This has been suggested before, and the developers said it will not happen, as it would further reduce the number of trades in the world, making it even harder for those in a weak FS (or none at all) to get what they need.

It figures.

The devs have already told us that by far the vast majority of players never visit the forums. Your post has the probably unintended consequence of almost certainly not reaching any significant number of players for whom you intended it.

When and where did they tell us? I just started playing in the middle of June, so must have missed that memo. I wonder how they have arrived at that conclusion since players can lurk and read without registering or actively participating in discussions - survey? If they don't register, it would be difficult to track any who are just visiting/lurkers.

 

[Ashrem]

When and where did they tell us? I just started playing in the middle of June, so must have missed that memo. I wonder how they have arrived at that conclusion since players can lurk and read without registering or actively participating in discussions - survey? If they don't register, it would be difficult to track any who are just visiting/lurkers.

Please don't read any excitement or anger or dismissal into the following. It is presented as information, without any emotional overtones.

Inno has been written up in business magazines for having some of the best player statistics capturing of any game company. They are not a bunch of guys in a basement, they are generating annual revenue in the hundreds of millions of Euros and the company is valued around 300 million Euros. When they provide information, it's because they know it to be reasonably accurate. It's not remotely difficult to run stats that compare IP addresses accessing the game to IP addresses accessing the forums. I don't remember where it was posted. It might have been on the beta forums. While I often do spend some time digging around when someone wants older information, I'm just another player. If your post generated a negative reaction, it's likely because it breaks one of the few forum rules (5: avoid repeating topics) which asks people to do some searches of their own to find out if other people have posted the same question or complaint instead of starting another thread about the same thing. There are no prohibitions against reopening old threads that have gone dormant if you feel like you have some relevant information or opinions to share. The difficulty with creating a new thread for such things is that other people who have already experienced a discussion end up posting the same answers they've posted before, and are forced to do their own searches finding info to support/refute points that have already been supported/refuted previously.

 

[SoggyShorts]

When and where did they tell us?

Months ago, and I'm 90% sure it was @Marindor. The number was either 0.2% or 0.02% iirc.

Even in my fellowships (which have quite a few players that I met on the forums) very few come here.

If you look at the forum stats, I alone count for 5% of the posts.

 

[Maevie]

Thanks for the info.

If your post generated a negative reaction, it's likely because it breaks one of the few forum rules (5: avoid repeating topics) which asks people to do some searches of their own to find out if other people have posted the same question or complaint instead of starting another thread about the same thing. There are no prohibitions against reopening old threads that have gone dormant if you feel like you have some relevant information or opinions to share. The difficulty with creating a new thread for such things is that other people who have already experienced a discussion end up posting the same answers they've posted before, and are forced to do their own searches finding info to support/refute points that have already been supported/refuted previously.

I generally do run searches before opening topics. If I post something that has been discussed before, it's likely that:

a) I used the wrong keywords when searching and thus didn't find an existing topic or,
b) My search returned irrelevant results (perhaps due to "a"), or what appeared to be after skimming through a few threads at the top of the list.

If I had found a relevant thread, I would have posted my thoughts on it as I have done before. That being said, the fact that I posted a topic that already exists doesn't necessarily mean that I willfully broke the forum's rules and if that's all it takes to generate negative reactions, I'm happy to refrain from posting in the future.

My apologies for the mistakes and misconceptions.

 

[SoggyShorts]

I don't think it's so much that anyone thought you were willfully creating a repeat thread.
More that when a topic comes up again in a new thread the reaction can be "ugh, this again?" even though it's the first time you've discussed it.
Really it's a shame that the forum mods don't make some sticky threads about various topics that have been discussed at length with the devs answers on those subjects. The system they are going with is to not partake in discussions unless they get out of control. This is to allow the subject to be discussed without interference, but sometimes an official response could save a lot of time.

 

[DeletedUser2824]

If you look at the forum stats, I alone count for 5% of the posts.

Spoiler: Soggy spends too much time here

Some days it shows.

 

[Maevie]

Yes, sticky threads for common discussions would be helpful to newer people.

The other thing I wanted to point out is that the "repeat topic" bit seems to be referring to tangents that this discussion went off on more than what I initially posted about; such as what I said they should do for the Trader and the forum stats - these things are not the reason I created the topic.

 

[SassKatt]

I'm seeing lots of people posting disproportionate trades lately, not even including the Trader's fee. In all honesty, while the fee is grrr, I would much rather pay that if I have to on an offer that starts out fair than on offers that seem to be intentionally giving less than they take, as long as it doesn't deplete my supplies.

Some examples;

1. player wants 200 steel (trader's fee makes it 300), but is only offering 100 marble.

2. player is offering 5 silk and wants 20 crystals (+10 for fee).

3. (this one is related, although the offers themselves are of equal value without the fee) player constantly ignores existing offers to post the same in reverse, apparently so that the burden of the expense can be on you. Well, I'm not accepting any more offers from this person - they can either keep waiting or realize that it's not going to kill them to accept someone else's offer and pay the little fee sometimes.

Talking about disproportionate trades, for the last week plus my FS has been posting some really large, zero star trades. The reason?? One of our top members is having to leave game due to real life happening. He kindly is offering to empty out his VERY well stocked warehouse for us to benefit from. Unfortunately there is no way to post this kindness so that others do not get incensed. Several members have had people PM them and go off on rages at them, even raging after an attempt to explain was made that their "precious time" was being wasted by our actions.
I, luckily had one PM me and asked me if I had lost my mind or simply added too many zeros. She then laughed when she got the explanation and said that should have crossed her mind as a couple of her FS had done the same in the past.
This all being said, sometimes there are reasons for the weird trades, then again, sometimes not. I have been known to go brain dead and think I was posting a great 3 star only to be told, UMMMMMMM no schilly, you got the numbers backwards.

 

[Maevie]

Talking about disproportionate trades, for the last week plus my FS has been posting some really large, zero star trades. The reason?? One of our top members is having to leave game due to real life happening. He kindly is offering to empty out his VERY well stocked warehouse for us to benefit from. Unfortunately there is no way to post this kindness so that others do not get incensed. Several members have had people PM them and go off on rages at them, even raging after an attempt to explain was made that their "precious time" was being wasted by our actions.
I, luckily had one PM me and asked me if I had lost my mind or simply added too many zeros. She then laughed when she got the explanation and said that should have crossed her mind as a couple of her FS had done the same in the past.
This all being said, sometimes there are reasons for the weird trades, then again, sometimes not. I have been known to go brain dead and think I was posting a great 3 star only to be told, UMMMMMMM no schilly, you got the numbers backwards.

That is sweet.

I don't have any experience within an active fellowship at this point and have never raged at anyone via PM for posting what I perceived to be unfair trades. Not that you've said I did, just putting it out there.

I have written to literally two players that I'd be happy to trade with them if their offers were more fair: that is, for undiscovered or outside of my FS players - 1 star is fine by me under the circumstances. I'm just not going to do that when someone wants 100 of a good (+fee) and is going to give me less of what I need - and they weren't in a FS, they were new, so I was as gentle as could be and even accepted some more balanced offers from them later.

 

[DeletedUser9276]

Really wished there was something to better explain to new players, as they might think steel or more valuable than wood, etc.

I'm starting to get a few more active players now that I'm exploring more, but my god their trade offers are terrible.

Trading in the FS is good, but it'd be nice to be able to rely on neighbors when you can't get anything from your FS at the time.

 

[mucksterme]

too much to read here, just scanned the thread, so i may have missed things
but i'll talk anyway

1st This is exactly what just happened to me on A world. Not only were several of my neighbors posting bad trades. but it became very prevalent in my (former) fs
even though the fs had the usual 'fair trade' rule posted. ( they since changed it)
it isn't a big deal to have a few 1 star or zero star trades up. but when you have to wade through 5 - 7 pages of them every time you go into Trader Joe's it gets annoying.
i post 3 stars as much as possible
i rarely post cross tiers and hardly ever post a T3:T1. and if i do it is a very very good deal for the buyer.
so yeah, seeing a bunch of ridiculously bad trades gets under the skin


on giving good trade deals to newer players.
i have certainly done that.
but always with the person in chat so we can do the trade immediately
i have to assume if someone posts zero star trade and it stays up for a while it is not by arrangement