KP donation notifications

[Silly Bubbles]

Well, you always have garantued return in net0. But I think there are already threads where one can find all the differences between the systems. They all have the same bonus chests, it is just a matter of how you distribute them between your members and how much work you want to have with your system (even so I don't understand how anyone would end up at swap threads with those 2 criteries).

I suppose it all depends on how truth (hard facts, reality) is valued comparing to opinions (feelings, power games, popularity etc) that depend on our personal reaction to reality. One sure thing, we can't get anything real ignoring reality and we'll get all twisted in all opinions.

 

[Dhurrin]

Well, you always have garantued return in net0. But I think there are already threads where one can find all the differences between the systems. They all have the same bonus chests, it is just a matter of how you distribute them between your members and how much work you want to have with your system (even so I don't understand how anyone would end up at swap threads with those 2 criteries).

You always have a guaranteed return with threads too. So that argument is moot in either choice.

 

[Katwick]

Nobody has mentioned a simple Shout Out approach.

1. Fill your OWN AW to 2/3rds, using a combination of KPs and AW Instants
2. Announce that Reward Chests will be available for not more than 24 hours
3. Folks "should" claim the largest available chest by contributing EXACTLY what they'll get back. Claiming smaller chests can be easily accommodated, but it forces everybody else to do a bit of eyeball arithmetic to realize that a larger chest is still available.
   1. KPs are converted to storable Runes or AW Instants
   2. Fellowship AW Perk Points are converted to storable Runes or AW Instants
   3. AW Instants are converted to Runes or replenished
   4. Runes are valued at 15 KPs. {They're only worth 10 KPs in your own AW.)
      1. Use raw KPs, Fellowship AW Perk Points, and/or AW Instants to claim Runes that you still need
      2. Contribute mostly Runes if you already have more than the 25ish that are needed every 5th level for the Rune Wheel.
         They're converted to AW Instants and fewer Runes.
   5. Mild record keeping is needed because bumping can be an issue if somebody contributes MORE than a Reward that's already been claimed, although the Owner's prior 2/3rds contribution limits this sort of damage. The miscreant will receive back less than they contributed and if folks were bumped the owner can simply contribute the difference to their flagged AWs.
4. The AW will be ready to level once the Chests are all claimed, but if 24 hours have elapsed the OWNER should contribute the balance to release the Rewards
5. Exactly the SAME AW Instants can be reused, day after day, while you're accumulating the 2/3rds that you'll need for your own next level.
   (Compare this to Swap Threads, where several partially full AWs can sit there and rot for several days.)
6. Multiple AWs can be concurrently active, and each participant can contribute to any or all of them, without waiting for a turn.
7. it's easy to include Non-Fellowship participants, by adding them to the thread.
8. To minimize false attempts, the Shout Out Thread should be cumulative

Shout Out example post (mostly a copy)
Katwick - BTG <--- new
Memberx - AWx <--- copied
Membery - AWy <--- copied
Memberz - AWz - Done <--- copied and edited

And yeah. Shout Out looks a lot like NetZero.

 

[Killy-]

You always have a guaranteed return with threads too. So that argument is moot in either choice.

Well no (unless you mean getting your kps back without a bonus, but than you could just dump your kps into your own wonder), you are not guarantueed to get any chests, but with net0 you are guaranteed a specific bonus you gonna get and it is the same for every player.

 

[Iyapo]

Well no (unless you mean getting your kps back without a bonus, but than you could just dump your kps into your own wonder), you are not garantueed to get any chests, but with net0 you are garanteed a specific bonus you gonna get and it is the same for every player.

If I take your 75kp chest in net zero I get 75kp back, if I put 75 kp on a swap thread I get 75kp back.

If I spend 2000kp upgrading my own wonders in net zero everyone donates chest value, so I get the get all the KP from my chests donated back to me. If I spend 2000kp on swap threads I get the KP in any chests I am on when the wonders close.

If I spend 50kp week on my wonder in net zero, I get nothing(week in and week out) until I donate enough to request an upgrade, if I spend 50kp a week on swap threads I may or may not get KP from a chest depending on whether or not I am sitting on any chests when wonders close.

Netzero has a guaranteed return but only if the owner of the wonder checks donations before closing. Many don't. They don't pay back KP when someone gets bumped. Or even better, they get to send messages to players who underpaid and ask them to fix it....and wait. Net0 is not flawless.

 

[Katwick]

If I spend 2000kp upgrading my own wonders in net zero everyone donates chest value, so I get the get all the KP from my chests donated back to me. If I spend 2000kp on swap threads I get the KP in any chests I am on when the wonders close.

Turnover is the HUGE difference. With Shout Out and NetZero you can loan your (entire) stash of AW Instants (every day), plus any AW Perks and/or raw KPs that you can convert for storable Runes and AW Instants.

The arithmetic is brutal.

• Swap threads tie up your contributions for a week or so, while several AWs accumulate points, and only one target at a time is available per thread.
• Shout Out and NetZero tie up your contribution S for 24 hours at the most, and multiple targets are available most of the time.

So the fundamental question is HOW MANY times, per week, can you help level somebody's AW for 2/3rds of the indicated value, and accumulate STORABLE Runes and AW Instants while you're at it.

 

[Killy-]

Netzero has a guaranteed return but only if the owner of the wonder checks donations before closing. Many don't. They don't pay back KP when someone gets bumped. Or even better, they get to send messages to players who underpaid and ask them to fix it....and wait. Net0 is not flawless.

That would be a user problem which me and my teammates never have. If someone gets bumped, then that is a positive thing, just needs fixing and the fixing is easy (at least imo). I don't see why someone should underpay in net0, as long as everyone knows how much he/she has to put in for the chests. As long you are able to operate net0 accurately, it is flawless imo.

 

[Silly Bubbles]

If I take your 75kp chest in net zero I get 75kp back, if I put 75 kp on a swap thread I get 75kp back.

The difference is the amount of work to do that. There's has been number of complaints lately about the work involved with KP threads. Also, net zero offers a choice in what runes we get. Another thing is that you don't know how much you get back from chests with KP threads, it can be anything between zero to 100%. In a fair situation, everyone should be getting 20% and that's nearly impossible with KP threads.

If I spend 2000kp upgrading my own wonders in net zero everyone donates chest value, so I get the get all the KP from my chests donated back to me. If I spend 2000kp on swap threads I get the KP in any chests I am on when the wonders close.

Very likely you'll get more than Net Zero because of your big contribution at the expense of others. There is a set number of chests, when one person gets more than 20% return, another person gets less than 20% return.

If I spend 50kp week on my wonder in net zero, I get nothing(week in and week out) until I donate enough to request an upgrade, if I spend 50kp a week on swap threads I may or may not get KP from a chest depending on whether or not I am sitting on any chests when wonders close.

When I spend 50kp week on my wonder, I have 50kp contribution in my wonder, it doesn't matter where it comes from, I still have 50kp in my wonder with both systems.

Netzero has a guaranteed return but only if the owner of the wonder checks donations before closing. Many don't. They don't pay back KP when someone gets bumped. Or even better, they get to send messages to players who underpaid and ask them to fix it....and wait. Net0 is not flawless.

Nothing is perfect. The differences come down to the amount of work and the distribution of chests. One is less work, the other one is more work. One distributes chests evenly to all fellows, the other one gives more chests to the fellows that contribute the most.

 

[Dhurrin]

Well no (unless you mean getting your kps back without a bonus, but than you could just dump your kps into your own wonder), you are not garantueed to get any chests, but with net0 you are garanteed a specific bonus you gonna get and it is the same for every player.

We have been over this several times now. You keep missing the points I'm making, so you do it your way, we do it ours.

Personally I think it is weird to put KPs into your own AWs because that has 0 net effect, but if that makes you happy that's fine.
It's as weird to me as the idea that the chests still 'belong' to the owner of the AW that generated them. NOBODY has any right to tell me what to do with whatever is in my inventory as fas as I'm concerned.

So I'll happily donate 4x500 KPs into 4 people's AW and you stuff them into your own. Let's just keep it at that.
The threads have worked much better for me than any other system, and I have seen a lot on a lot of different servers. So we use the threads.
I guess you had some bad experiences with the threads, I have had bad experiences with other systems. It all comes down on communication and proper handling and training by the mage-team.

 

[Iyapo]

I am sorry guys, but I did Net0 in a group where it was a big old mess. I mean hateful net negative.

All the swap systems have positives and negatives, imo but the swaps are my favorite by far.

 

[Dhurrin]

Turnover is the HUGE difference. With Shout Out and NetZero you can loan your (entire) stash of AW Instants (every day), plus any AW Perks and/or raw KPs that you can convert for storable Runes and AW Instants.

The arithmetic is brutal.

• Swap threads tie up your contributions for a week or so, while several AWs accumulate points, and only one target at a time is available per thread.
• Shout Out and NetZero tie up your contribution S for 24 hours at the most, and multiple targets are available most of the time.

So the fundamental question is HOW MANY times, per week, can you help level somebody's AW for 2/3rds of the indicated value, and accumulate STORABLE Runes and AW Instants while you're at it.

ROFLMAO. Swaps will tie you up for a week? I'd not want to be in a FS like that.
We have 10 KP threads all in all. And I have too refresh them all every 7-10 days because they get so long (say 150+ hits each) they can cause a lag in older systems. Nobody is ever tied up in our threads.

As you said, turnover is what makes the difference and we have a very high turnover.

And even for that extremely unlikely possibility there are several solutions possible, again it's a matter of proper communication by the mage-team about rules and expectations.

 

[Silly Bubbles]

We have been over this several times now. You keep missing the points I'm making, so you do it your way, we do it ours.

Personally I think it is weird to put KPs into your own AWs because that has 0 net effect, but if that makes you happy that's fine.
It's as weird to me as the idea that the chests still 'belong' to the owner of the AW that generated them. NOBODY has any right to tell me what to do with whatever is in my inventory as fas as I'm concerned.

So I'll happily donate 4x500 KPs into 4 people's AW and you stuff them into your own. Let's just keep it at that.
The threads have worked much better for me than any other system, and I have seen a lot on a lot of different servers. So we use the threads.
I guess you had some bad experiences with the threads, I have had bad experiences with other systems. It all comes down on communication and proper handling and training by the mage-team.

I am sorry guys, but I did Net0 in a group where it was a big old mess. I mean hateful net negative.

All the swap systems have positives and negatives, imo but the swaps are my favorite by far.

Of course everyone can do whatever they feel like. This conversation is about getting the facts right, I don't think that anybody is telling anybody what to do. If you personally prefer one system over the other, that's completely fine, it's your personal choice based on your personal preferences. We are all different and I respect that.

 

[Katwick]

ROFLMAO. Swaps will tie you up for a week? I'd not want to be in a FS like that.
We have 10 KP threads all in all. And I have too refresh them all every 7-10 days because they get so long (say 150+ hits each)

With that many active participants you could use Scotch tape and clarinet reeds, and it would still work.

 

[Killy-]

I guess you had some bad experiences with the threads, I have had bad experiences with other systems. It all comes down on communication and proper handling and training by the mage-team.

The opposite - in my first fs they had only swap threads and I just thought that is how the game works. Soon enough I was our best tournament player with a lot of extra kps, grabbing most of the top chests in our wonders. It was a really good system for me, making the rich richer and I was speedrunning my wonder development.. Only because I was reading the forum I got aware of different systems. I realized that I only got above average bonus kps, because a lot of my teammates would get less. The ones that were struggling the most, where getting almost nothing out of this system and that isn't me at all. So I installed net0 for everyone who was interested in it. The sweet cherry on top was how little work net0 is, you can just dump all your points when ever you want (actually a really big cherry for me).

 

[Dhurrin]

With that many active participants you could use Scotch tape and clarinet reeds, and it would still work.
View attachment 16170

Interestingly enough, we have maybe 30-35 active participants, spread out over our main FS and 2 sister FSs. Even in our main FS some players don't like the chains and don't use them a lot, which is fine. They do tend to call out when there are chests available so members can grab them if they want to.
One of the nice things about having the chains this way is that our main FS is doing just the minimum on FSA, while another tends to go for it, so we can swap players between them without them being disconnected from the KP chains. And those member-swaps at times give us whales in the main FS a chance to donate goods to smaller players.
And before all the hubub starts; no we are talking about different real players here, not push accounts or FSA-accounts.

The extra participants make it interesting, though sometimes a bit harder since one may be required to donate out of your own FS. Also means the refreshing is a bit more work since I have to use a copy/paste list of participants and have to check whether it's up to date. But hey, that's a price I'm happy to pay.

(now I also trade swaps with some map-neighbours at times, especially when new AWs are revealed as it is a way to gain runes)
I I have said before, it's all a matter of organization and communication.

 

[Silly Bubbles]

The opposite - in my first fs they had only swap threads and I just thought that is how the game works. Soon enough I was our best tournament player with a lot of extra kps, grabbing most of the top chests in our wonders. It was a really good system for me, making the rich richer and I was speedrunning my wonder development.. Only because I was reading the forum I got aware of different systems. I realized that I only got above average bonus kps, because a lot of my teammates would get less. The ones that were struggling the most, where getting almost nothing out of this system and that isn't me at all. So I installed net0 for everyone who was interested in it. The sweet cherry on top was how little work net0 is, you can just dump all your points when ever you want (actually a really big cherry for me).

This is why I wouldn't recommend small players to use KP swap threads. They will miss out on runes and chests and it will hinder their progress.

 

[Moho]

With that many active participants you could use Scotch tape and clarinet reeds, and it would still work.

A small digression prompted by that cartoon:

Spoiler

 

[Dhurrin]

This is why I wouldn't recommend small players to use KP swap threads. They will miss out on runes and chests and it will hinder their progress.

Again; simply not true. That is not inherent in the system but in behaviour. Having a mage-team (or rather a whole FS-team) that works together and communicates well can easily prevent that from happening.

 

[Darielle]

Well no (unless you mean getting your kps back without a bonus, but than you could just dump your kps into your own wonder), you are not garantueed to get any chests, but with net0 you are garanteed a specific bonus you gonna get and it is the same for every player.

Unless someone outside the fellowship takes it.

 

[Killy-]

Unless someone outside the fellowship takes it.

That's not a problem at all, they can have all the chests and you still have the same profit or even better, they overpay (or you make them overpay if you want to put in any effort (not me, I am rather lazy)).