KP donation notifications

[Silly Bubbles]

This seems like a competition what system is better. They are both good for different purposes. If you want it to be less effort, distribute chests evenly with your fellows and make it easier to get runes you want then Net0 is great. If you want to distribute most chests to biggest contributors then KP threads are great.

 

[Darielle]

That's not a problem at all, they can have all the chests and you still have the same profit or even better, they overpay (or you make them overpay if you want to put in any effort (not me, I am rather lazy)).

Perhaps I'm not understanding your fellowship's version of the net zero method then. I thought you pay the exact amount of a chest and get that chest, unless someone comes along from outside the fellowship and takes it. How do you make them overpay without overpaying yourself? And how do you have the exact same profit? Am I confusing net zero with something else?

 

[Darielle]

This seems like a competition what system is better. They are both good for different purposes. If you want it to be less effort, distribute chests evenly with your fellows and make it easier to get runes you want then Net0 is great. If you want to distribute most chests to biggest contributors then KP threads are great.

I agree.

 

[Katwick]

How do you make them overpay without overpaying yourself? And how do you have the exact same profit? Am I confusing net zero with something else?

Folks claim the largest available chest, so nobody gets bumped unless somebody OVERPAYS for a chest. That would have two consequences:

1. Nobody will get the smallest chest.
2. The owner won't need to contribute their full 2/3rd, and the balance can be donated to anybody who didn't recover the full value of their loan.

If the Owner contributes their 2/3rd BEFORE the AW is announced, the "worst" that can happen is that the overpay prevents the lowest few chests from being rewarded to anybody, and the overpayer "donated" the differance.

In practice, and especially so when AW Perks >5 are contributed, the last few chests are often claimed for LESS than their award value, and the award levels self heal in a couple of days.

 

[Killy-]

Perhaps I'm not understanding your fellowship's version of the net zero method then. I thought you pay the exact amount of a chest and get that chest, unless someone comes along from outside the fellowship and takes it. How do you make them overpay without overpaying yourself? And how do you have the exact same profit? Am I confusing net zero with something else?

Let's name our pirate Jack (without Captain and Sparrow, just Jack). If Jack pays the exact emount for a chest (including 15 kps for runes oc), then you can just have him have it. Let's say he put in 17 kps, then he will get bumped down to the next lower chest (15 kps or maybe even just 5kps, depending on the wonder) and the difference ist net gain for you. Now, what if we don't like pirates, or we don't like Jack or we are greedy for profit and we want to put in some effort. In that case everyone else needs to put in at least 18 kps and push Jack out of the rewards. This way all his 17 kps are profit for you (yay, so much effort for 17 kps). Like you said, your teammates will have overpaid and of course we need to pay our debt. The easiest way imo is to take the highest chest in their next net0 and add the debt on top of it. I hope that explains it well enough - the second part will only be story time.

We had a Jack once, that was unhappy with our net0, but I don't even really know why. However, he often put like 60 kps in our wonders to mess with us (or steal a chest or whatever his idea was). There we actually did the effort to push him out of the rewards every time and after losing maybe 500kps he decided to give up on it. So I can say, pirates are never a problem in net0. They can create a bit of extra work, but at least you get some profit out of it.

 

[Flashfyre]

Sounds like too much bookkeeping and mathing needed. I'm all for the K.I.S.S. method: I put 10kp on someone's favorite AW, someone puts 10kp on my favorite AW. Easy peasy, lemon squeezy. Move on to other tasks.

 

[Killy-]

Sounds like too much bookkeeping and mathing needed. I'm all for the K.I.S.S. method: I put 10kp on someone's favorite AW, someone puts 10kp on my favorite AW. Easy peasy, lemon squeezy. Move on to other tasks.

That is often the argument, but when you have to get rid of 500 kps or so after evrey tournament, you have way less work to do in net0.

 

[Flashfyre]

That is often the argument, but when you have to get rid of 500 kps or so after evrey tournament, you have way less work to do in net0.

I have 3000+ KPs I haven't used yet. Why would I need to get rid of 500 of them after a Tourney? It's not like they expire or anything...

 

[Darielle]

Sounds like too much bookkeeping and mathing needed. I'm all for the K.I.S.S. method: I put 10kp on someone's favorite AW, someone puts 10kp on my favorite AW. Easy peasy, lemon squeezy. Move on to other tasks.

Me too.

 

[Silly Bubbles]

I have 3000+ KPs I haven't used yet. Why would I need to get rid of 500 of them after a Tourney? It's not like they expire or anything...

Does it mean that you don't use any system?

 

[Katwick]

I have 3000+ KPs I haven't used yet. Why would I need to get rid of 500 of them after a Tourney? It's not like they expire or anything...

Because, by merely loaning them out, OTHER owners get a 33% discount. So, overall, the participants can level their AWs for 2/3rds of the indicated price.

 

[Killy-]

I have 3000+ KPs I haven't used yet. Why would I need to get rid of 500 of them after a Tourney? It's not like they expire or anything...

3k kps in your inventar are no problem at all. I was only talking about kps in your bar, which you might wanna empty out to get your 24 daily kps. Even with bigger kp chains and being optimistic, I would need like 10 chains? That is 10 times opening a message, putting in my wonder, double checking who are getting my kps and then going there and donating (not even including checking your own wonder afterwards for the control freaks out there). In net0 I need 1 Klick in my own wonder after the tournament instead. I changed systems because of the fairness aspect, but the reduced amount of work is what actually made me smile.

 

[Flashfyre]

Does it mean that you don't use any system?

No, my FS has a number of swap threads that I use occasionally.

Because, by merely loaning them out, OTHER owners get a 33% discount. So, overall, the participants can level their AWs for 2/3rds of the indicated price.

I haven't spent more than 100kp on any of my own AWs in years; with swap threads, the whole FS is encouraged to contribute and the cost is spread out amongst all of us.

3k kps in your inventar are no problem at all. I was only talking about kps in your bar, which you might wanna empty out to get your 24 daily kps. Even with bigger kp chains and being optimistic, I would need like 10 chains? That is 10 times opening a message, putting in my wonder, double checking who are getting my kps and then going there and donating (not even including checking your own wonder afterwards for the control freaks out there). In net0 I need 1 Klick in my own wonder after the tournament instead. I changed systems because of the fairness aspect, but the reduced amount of work is what actually made me smile.

That 3K is what's in my KP bar; I probably have twice that in instants. The ones in the bar, though, I save to spend on tech in the next chapter, after I've parked long enough to bring my city up to the level needed. I don't need the daily 24, because I get a daily 12 from the various set and event buildings I have out, not to mention the Carting Libraries.

Suffice to say, we all have our preferred ways of doing this.

 

[Killy-]

That 3K is what's in my KP bar; I probably have twice that in instants. The ones in the bar, though, I save to spend on tech in the next chapter, after I've parked long enough to bring my city up to the level needed. I don't need the daily 24, because I get a daily 12 from the various set and event buildings I have out, not to mention the Carting Libraries.

Suffice to say, we all have our preferred ways of doing this.

Well if you don't need your kps anymore, then you don't have to use any system anymore.

Spoiler: Spoiler

 

[Momonar]

That is YOUR opinion. I try to avoid adding KPS to my own AWs. No real need to either, I rather spend all my KPs on the AWs of other players so I get more returns.
And there is no 'negative effect' on donating more than the maximum chest. In the end the swaps are swaps, so every point I invest in someone else's AW will come back through the chains, so you always end up getting at least as much as you gave. Everything gained from chests earned is just extra. Not 'winning' 100 extra KPs does not equate a loss.

If I invest 600 KPs and get back 600, it's neither a loss nor a gain. If I invest 600 KPs and get back something from a chest it is a positive effect.
The only way to have a 'loss' is if you donate randomly without getting anything back at all. And even that is debatable; it does generate extra room for you so you won't get KP-locked as easily which for some people might be a gain in itself.


That I actually do agree on. It is much better to work 1 AW at a time as having several half filled AWs don't give extra benefits, but 1 finished one does as soon as it is upgraded.


As for chains being clumsy; maybe that is your experience. Sadly, that means you only have had some badly organized/supervised chains. We use our chains often, intensely and at a high pace and everyone who does benefits from that. Whether they participate or not is up to them. But the ones that don't have their AWs generally at (much) lower levels than the ones that do. Which is a choice.

Right now I'm sitting on this, a bit over 19.000 KPs in instants. and that's not counting any runes I can use, or the regular KPs from collections, Wonders, Evolving buildings, events or tourney.

View attachment 16139

So I could use all that on my own AWs, but that means zero return. That actually is a loss. So instead I spend it on the chains, or on AWs on players on my map that are almost finished and have open chests up for grabs (which usually are players who invest only in their own AWs and have no others contributing).

Or I can use your suggestion; that means that without a doubt I will be the one grabbing all the top-gold chests from everyone in my FS as nobody will come even close to this. And because of that, I'd only be getting more and more and nobody would ever be able to outdo that.
With the chains, anyone can end up being the one to grab the top chest.

This problem goes away in a Wonder Society in which all wonders from all fellowship members are included, and everyone agrees to collect the donation data (or wait for someone else to collect it) before upgrading. I have upgraded the Wonder Society Spreadsheet to make recording faster, easier, and much easier to share. It isn't as great as a fully automatic donation tracker linked to the game API, but until such an API is available, it is pretty good.

I have run this in Arendyll for a few years now, and the convenience of always having a place to dump spare kp such that you get your share of bonus kp has been well worth the additional admin effort (which when split among 4 people makes it a no-stress benefit). I added a Wonder Status page to the google sheet to show the last level recorded of each wonder for each fellowship member which makes it nice when you want to burn some excess rune shard, and are looking for fellowship members who have that wonder.

Send me a message (in game will be read faster) if you want a link to the sheet to copy.

 

[Deleted User - 281932]

It's fairly easy to see if someone donated the correct amount as long as you keep track of the time/date that you upgrade your wonders. I have a list and I know when I upgraded each wonder. That resets the clock on donations. For example:

I upgrade my wonder from level 14 to level 15 on Monday, July 1st, at 10am. If I think someone has not given me enough kp, I can easily prove it just by going through the threads and seeing how many threads they took, and the times they took them from me. If they took a 30kp thread on July 2 and a 50 kp thread on July 4, then I know they owe me 80 kp and can prove it by the message thread. If there is 80 kp in my wonder under their name, then there is no problem. If there is 60kp in my wonder under their name, I can point out that they've taken two threads from me and the dates.

This really only comes up with a few people, who tend to repeatedly undercount their donations. Those few people are all you have to keep an eye on. The vast majority are honest and will not cheat you. I often find more kp than I am owed in my wonders. People will sometimes round up in my favor.

If certain people repeatedly cheat you, make sure you let your AM know so that he/she can handle it and talk to the person. If they repeatedly do that to you, then it's very likely she knows about them and has had complaints from others, too. I know of an AM who has banned a certain person from using the AW threads and has even gone out of her way to write out all the names on the larger threads and exclude theirs from the thread (rather than pressing the fellowship button). It's an option if it becomes necessary.

We allow our donation threads to get so long for this very reason. I make the starting thread and when it gets to 75-100 I write “Please, DELETE this thread.
I keep these threads for at least a week, maybe longer, until I see no complications. Then I’ll delete them. Of course, always starting the new threads right away.
It keeps the threads easier to verify any mixups. We have not had many problems through the years. We now have 5,10,15, 20, 30, 50 and 100kp threads. It keeps it flowing and easier for us. I’m happy to say we have an honest team. Good luck with all!

 

[Dhurrin]

This problem goes away in a Wonder Society in which all wonders from all fellowship members are included, and everyone agrees to collect the donation data (or wait for someone else to collect it) before upgrading. I have upgraded the Wonder Society Spreadsheet to make recording faster, easier, and much easier to share. It isn't as great as a fully automatic donation tracker linked to the game API, but until such an API is available, it is pretty good.

I have run this in Arendyll for a few years now, and the convenience of always having a place to dump spare kp such that you get your share of bonus kp has been well worth the additional admin effort (which when split among 4 people makes it a no-stress benefit). I added a Wonder Status page to the google sheet to show the last level recorded of each wonder for each fellowship member which makes it nice when you want to burn some excess rune shard, and are looking for fellowship members who have that wonder.

Send me a message (in game will be read faster) if you want a link to the sheet to copy.

Though I thank you for your offer I am not sure why you made it.
I thought my posts clearly showed I'm perfectly happy with our system of KP-chains. We have no issues with people not getting rewards, we have no issues with people not able to get runes and our chains move very fast. In fact, so fast it tends to be a shock for new members when they join. That and the fact they need to get used that 'real' messages tend to be on page 3
But it helps the AWs of those who choose to participate grow really fast.

And frankly, with people spread out over a lot of timezones we are not really going to find a lot of people willing to wait until someone check some data somewhere

 

[Dhurrin]

That is often the argument, but when you have to get rid of 500 kps or so after evrey tournament, you have way less work to do in net0.

LOL. I try to 'get rid' of about 400 KPs after each tourney and then ANOTHER 1.000 (from other sources) or more every week. And I don't seem to have any issues with that using our chains.

If opening a message is already too much work for some people I'd say that is a problem in itself.

But like most others here I don't care what system people use. I have tried a lot of systems on different servers. In my FS we use the system with the chains, which works really well for and has the best tracking abilities. If it is a bit more work for me personally as AM, that's fine too.
If players don't want to use them, that's fine. If they do, so much the better.
As @snowcone states, I replace the threads when they get too long. I can keep the last set until the next one needs to be refreshed.
And even if someone makes a mistake and I have to refresh in between, or have to refresh because I need to add someone, no problem. I have 20.000 or so KPs in instants laying around.

My PERSONAL opinion is that I absolutely dislike the 'net0' system as I find it moronic to stuff large amounts of KPs in my own AWs as that has 0 benefit to me. If others feel happy doing so, then they are welcome to do so.

 

[Killy-]

If opening a message is already too much work for some people I'd say that is a problem in itself.

That is excatly what I do. I open one message for my wonder, I don't see why I would want to open like 50 messages (and open them twice, for double checking), when I can complete a wonder with one message.

In my FS we use the system with the chains, which works really well for and has the best tracking abilities.

How would chains have the best tracking abilities? In net0 you just have to check once and if everything is fine, complete the wonder. I don't even want to think about how much work one have to do, to check in the chain system. I never checked anything while using it, way too much work for me.

My PERSONAL opinion is that I absolutely dislike the 'net0' system as I find it moronic to stuff large amounts of KPs in my own AWs as that has 0 benefit to me. If others feel happy doing so, then they are welcome to do so.

That is just a wrong statement. All the system have the same benefit on average (just some tend to be fairer than others *cough* ). I guess you can still feal that way, no point in arguing feelings.

 

[Katwick]

I find it moronic to stuff large amounts of KPs in my own AWs as that has 0 benefit to me.

I agree, but with a twist.

If you contribute MORE than the value of a reward chest, then timing is the only difference.

Regardless of the system you're using, be it QuickShout, NetZero, Wonder Society, or Swap Threads, the best tactic is to contribute KPs to OTHER AWs for awards, which helps them level while converting your KPs to storable Runes and AW Instants.

If you need your KPs for leveling, then use your stash to contribute the SAME Runes or AW Instants, over and over again. Once you've accumulated enough AW Instants for 2/3rds of your next level, then you can plonk them down and announce that some Reward Chests will clear within 24 hours.

If you had 15 people who contributed 20 points per day, to a SINGLE AW that needed 300 points, then swap threads would be fine. Otherwise the other systems are all much quicker about turning Knowledge Point contributions into reusable rewards.